I am happy to help if there is some way I can. I think Rebecca has a fabulous idea.
Some of these posts and those on the Ultimate BB prompted me to think about this. (Note, these are my questions, not to reflect on Rebecca.) So pipe in and point out the problems with my thinking or ways we can make the USDF better or whatever!!
I was thinking about this whole issue driving home from the office. So, no emotion involved (I’ll try!), but looking at it from purely a “business/consumer” viewpoint…here’s food for thought. (And just to put my comments in perspective: I have always been a strong proponent of and believer in the USDF; a delegate to conventions for years, voting to increase qualifications for regional championships because I do believe in standards; volunteered as GMO newsletter editor, board member, and president and worked with our GMO to have awards meet certain standards; served on the Dressage Foundation to review and select the candidates for the Gifted Adult Amateur awards since its inception; adult amateur competitor just earning my Silver Medal…)
That being…here’s what I am beginning to wonder ever since seeing the USDF focus on the qualifying proposal (even though it is being done “for” the USEF), and the USDF’s refusal to share data with Rebecca (transparency of an organization?), and “nickel and diming” members for reports, among other things.
I’m looking at the USDF as a product/service that I as an amateur would “buy”: why would I belong? Why would my “GMO” need to belong? Why couldn’t the local “GMO” just be an independent group of dedicated, hard-working volunteers without an affiliation to the USDF? Wouldn’t they accomplish the same things? (And keep a good chunk of membership money that is sent off every spring to the USDF?)
I see hard-working GMOs putting on excellent educational events (clinics, exhibitions, shows). Seems to be no need for USDF involvement with these activities.
Unless you are interested in showing at recognized shows where you’d need the USDF number…if you are just interested in schooling shows and educational events, why the need for an affiliation with the USDF as a member?
Some possible membership reasons:
- The magazine? Okay, but USDF Connections can be substituted for Dressage Today or some other dressage magazine quite easily and reasonably too.
- The membership “deals” (rent a car, discounts on hotels). Personally never bothered with them myself, but perhaps others find this highly important.
- Access to judges and clinicians for events and/or schooling shows? (No, don’t think so. No one has ever asked if our GMO is affiliated with the USDF. They want to come, we pay them, end of story.)
- The USDF University? What do those “credits” get you? GMOs put on educational sessions and no paperwork to keep track of. It’s not like you can put your credits earned toward a degree on your resume!
- Participation in a “democratic” organization? As a GMO, to participate in the UDSF convention, we pay to send a delegate to the USDF convention and (with no hesitation at all), our GMO gives a small amount to Region 2 director’s expenses to travel to the annual convention. But as with this qualified rider proposal, in the end, will that “democracy” really matter or will this be passed regardless of member needs/wishes? Again, what does this process “get” for a GMO or individual member?
So, just food for thought. I respect a ton of people associated with the USDF. I do believe their heart is in the right place, but on the other hand, I do have to wonder about some decisions, responsiveness to members, and whether or not the effort is really focused on the majority of member needs.
So, my question – from purely a consumer focus as if purchasing a product or service – what do I “get” from my USDF membership that my GMO can’t do for its members on its own? Why should the bulk of the membership (adult amateurs) provide so much of their time and money for an organization that seems to be focused on high performance? Would it matter to the USDF if the GMOs decided, since most are AAs, to just become independent organizations? Maybe the USDF would be happy not to deal with the “needs” of the needy AAs! Our GMO has put on some dynamite clinics, symposia and other educational events on our own…no help from the USDF, so I’m beginning to wonder what we get out of the affiliation when it doesn’t seem to really represent the bulk of our GMO membership and we are, in effect, fundraising for them via the dues. (In fact, the one time we had an international competitor literally keep $4,000 in airline expenses and never show up, the USDF basically said, when we called for help, “Well, good luck with that.” And left us hanging. So gotta wonder what we “get” for our affiliation! 
Let’s hear it! Prove me wrong because as I’ve said, I’ve always been so very pro-USDF…but my enthusiasm admittedly has been fading for the last year or so… And frankly, I think any business or organization benefits from frank discussion and evaluation.
Could everyone who is requesting a copy of our analysis please put the word “analysis” in their email?
I am getting quite a few of these, and I want to be able to search my email to be sure I get all of them when the report is ready.
Thanks.
I agree with TF. I haven’t joined my GMO or USDF or USEF for the past two years, simply because my schedule precluded showing, I was unhappy with the direction of my GMO, and the ONLY reason I’d join now is to go to rated shows.
And I’m not very tempted to do that these days, due to the cost.
I like the direction this thread is going in.
I’m in, and ready to pay dues
Please count me in as a dues paying member of your future organization. And I would be pleased to recruit other dues paying members.
There is a precedent for this kind of grass-roots action. FOSH (Friends of the Sound Horse) was created from the official TWH organization’s members when members just couldn’t stand the policies of the national organization. FOSH has it’s own shows, judges, dues paying membership; I think its been quite successful.
I look forward to contributing to the success of the future Pro/Am Dressage Association.
Rebecca,
I couldn’t agree with you more! Can you print out all of the responses you’ve received and provide them to Janet when you ride with her this week or send her this link?!! I think they need to know that we are all quite put off by their “selective judgement” and in need of looking at what they REALLY want.
I have written my thoughts before so I won’t drone on about it all over again but it amazes me that they don’t see through their own transparencies (how much money did all of us contribute to AHSA/USEF to change their name…hmm,…this included, logo changes, web enhancements and much much more and WHO PAID FOR IT!!!). No matter how they try to disguise this, the amateur market will be hurt the most and we are the ones paying their salaries.
report
[QUOTE=rebecca yount;3062135]
Could everyone who is requesting a copy of our analysis please put the word “analysis” in their email?
I am getting quite a few of these, and I want to be able to search my email to be sure I get all of them when the report is ready.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Rebecca,
Do we PM you for a copy of the report, or is there an email address I missed somewhere. Would love to get a copy.
Lori
If someone wants the report please email me at dryount@yahoo.com
We are about to get more info, so keep checking this thread (see below). We won’t send out reports for a few more days because we are getting more data per the below press release (read on).
I am currently trapped in Florida. I was here for a conference and because of weather (thanks, Ohio) my flight out was cancelled and I can’t get home until tomorrow. Working on things from my laptop. I got this in an email from one of my cohorts. I think someone posted it or a reference to it in one of the threads re this topic. (Touchstone, I see it was you on UDBB!!! I didn’t get the press release, and I thought what you were referring to was some score report or something! I should have paid more attention.) Anyway, she went to the USDF website and found this (which I assume is what you are referring to, Touchstone):
USDF | Press Center | News Releases
<http://usdf.org/press/news/view-news.asp?news=219>
Release dated 4 Mar 08. Note this paragraph:
/Category Three reports must be directly requested from the USDF
office. These reports are defined as custom reports, queries, or
statistics, with fees assessed at $80 for members and $125 for
non-members for up to thirty minutes of staff time. Individuals will be
charged $35 for members and $55 for non-members for each additional
fifteen minutes of staff time to compile the reports.
Director of IT Services Chad Compton added, “As we continually
add to the amount of information available on the site and expand its
functionality, we hope to make many more commonly requested reports
available with the click of a button.”
These are the people I have been asking (and offering to pay for) data since February 20 or so. Interesting the timing of this press release.
Anyhoooooo…we will now request directly from USDF the data we need and pay for it and presumably will get it, so our analysis can be extended to all of 2007.
More info, reports, etc. coming soon.
Thank you to all who have been helping.
[QUOTE=Touchstone Farm;3061781]
Some of these posts and those on the Ultimate BB prompted me to think about this. (Note, these are my questions, not to reflect on Rebecca.) So pipe in and point out the problems with my thinking or ways we can make the USDF better or whatever!!
I was thinking about this whole issue driving home from the office. So, no emotion involved (I’ll try!), but looking at it from purely a “business/consumer” viewpoint…here’s food for thought. (And just to put my comments in perspective: I have always been a strong proponent of and believer in the USDF; a delegate to conventions for years, voting to increase qualifications for regional championships because I do believe in standards; volunteered as GMO newsletter editor, board member, and president and worked with our GMO to have awards meet certain standards; served on the Dressage Foundation to review and select the candidates for the Gifted Adult Amateur awards since its inception; adult amateur competitor just earning my Silver Medal…)
That being…here’s what I am beginning to wonder ever since seeing the USDF focus on the qualifying proposal (even though it is being done “for” the USEF), and the USDF’s refusal to share data with Rebecca (transparency of an organization?), and “nickel and diming” members for reports, among other things.
I’m looking at the USDF as a product/service that I as an amateur would “buy”: why would I belong? Why would my “GMO” need to belong? Why couldn’t the local “GMO” just be an independent group of dedicated, hard-working volunteers without an affiliation to the USDF? Wouldn’t they accomplish the same things? (And keep a good chunk of membership money that is sent off every spring to the USDF?)
I see hard-working GMOs putting on excellent educational events (clinics, exhibitions, shows). Seems to be no need for USDF involvement with these activities.
Unless you are interested in showing at recognized shows where you’d need the USDF number…if you are just interested in schooling shows and educational events, why the need for an affiliation with the USDF as a member?
Some possible membership reasons:
- The magazine? Okay, but USDF Connections can be substituted for Dressage Today or some other dressage magazine quite easily and reasonably too.
- The membership “deals” (rent a car, discounts on hotels). Personally never bothered with them myself, but perhaps others find this highly important.
- Access to judges and clinicians for events and/or schooling shows? (No, don’t think so. No one has ever asked if our GMO is affiliated with the USDF. They want to come, we pay them, end of story.)
- The USDF University? What do those “credits” get you? GMOs put on educational sessions and no paperwork to keep track of. It’s not like you can put your credits earned toward a degree on your resume!
- Participation in a “democratic” organization? As a GMO, to participate in the UDSF convention, we pay to send a delegate to the USDF convention and (with no hesitation at all), our GMO gives a small amount to Region 2 director’s expenses to travel to the annual convention. But as with this qualified rider proposal, in the end, will that “democracy” really matter or will this be passed regardless of member needs/wishes? Again, what does this process “get” for a GMO or individual member?
So, just food for thought. I respect a ton of people associated with the USDF. I do believe their heart is in the right place, but on the other hand, I do have to wonder about some decisions, responsiveness to members, and whether or not the effort is really focused on the majority of member needs.
So, my question – from purely a consumer focus as if purchasing a product or service – what do I “get” from my USDF membership that my GMO can’t do for its members on its own? Why should the bulk of the membership (adult amateurs) provide so much of their time and money for an organization that seems to be focused on high performance? Would it matter to the USDF if the GMOs decided, since most are AAs, to just become independent organizations? Maybe the USDF would be happy not to deal with the “needs” of the needy AAs! Our GMO has put on some dynamite clinics, symposia and other educational events on our own…no help from the USDF, so I’m beginning to wonder what we get out of the affiliation when it doesn’t seem to really represent the bulk of our GMO membership and we are, in effect, fundraising for them via the dues. (In fact, the one time we had an international competitor literally keep $4,000 in airline expenses and never show up, the USDF basically said, when we called for help, “Well, good luck with that.” And left us hanging. So gotta wonder what we “get” for our affiliation!
Let’s hear it! Prove me wrong because as I’ve said, I’ve always been so very pro-USDF…but my enthusiasm admittedly has been fading for the last year or so… And frankly, I think any business or organization benefits from frank discussion and evaluation.[/QUOTE]
questioning that myself! Just tried to get a full score report on my older guy and was asked for the $20 fee…sort of irked me.
Rebecca, I am an amateur here in MD. I think your idea is great. I’m a lawyer and can help that way if you need someone to do the incorporation and the 501 ©(3) work.
[QUOTE=ec412;3063916]
Just tried to get a full score report on my older guy and was asked for the $20 fee…sort of irked me.[/QUOTE]
Um, you’re being charged for a report showing YOUR scores that you paid to earn (via your entry fees at the show) from an organization that you’ve already paid to be a member of ?
We’re in bigger trouble than I thought.
Okay, I am stepping in alittle late…but I have one thing to say about this…(Mind you, I have little knowledge of this topic, as I have been hearing only tidbits)
Eliminating bouncy, “horrible” riders…
And having to qualify to show??
What, are we all to be perfect right out of the gate? So, only those with Natural talen need apply? You cannot get to the top lest you start at the bottom. Whatever…this is turning more into an aristocrat activity.
And, I guaruntee…some “ToP” riders ought to be eliminated then…because I have seen some people who could use a refresher.
Well this is FABULOUS. The USDF and the USEF have somehow decided that the masses of Amateurs are not worthy - we must all carry water and wave the palm leaves over the heads of the High Performance members - almost all of whom have sponsors. Don’t get me wrong - I’m very supportive of our Olympic Athletes (human and equine) and also for the teams who compete in other World competitions. But the USEF is bloated with people - the processes are so complex and it’s costing most people way more than it should to because they just can’t seem to have a system that is on par with Europe.
Showing horses has become such a financial burden and the paperwork, numbers, signatures, you name it - are ridiculous. We sent another young horse to FL this year to get some show experience. We have a great rider who knows how to get them to the shows and do well. The fees this year are horrendous and the lack of sufficient warm up areas at most of these “POSH” show grounds stresses young horses out for no reason. The FEI riders warmup with the young horses and very often have absolutely NO concern for how they are affecting these “new kids on the block” You have to pay a fee for everything - I wouldn’t be surprised to see pay toilets in the future. But this is our last year - we won’t send our young horses to these meat grinder situations.
The concept of a United States Amateur Dressage Association is a dream come true. Wouldn’t it be nice to use the horse’s registration # as their ID #?
Wouldn’t it be nice to pay entry fees that are reasonable?
Wouldn’t it be nice to have shows that don’t have secretaries who are terrified to make mistakes on reports and end up with huge fines or worse?
Wouldn’t it be nice to have an organization that had shows free from all the layer of fees for the USEF?
Wouldn’t it be nice to have shows with good judges who will score without fear of putting some “connected” riders or BNT’s noses out of joint?
Wouldn’t it be nice to have an organization that had the results available for all their shows on line and within a reasonable time period? Without a fee?
Wouldn’t it be nice to have an organization that kept the results for horses all the way through their career competition and required all the information was provided for all the horses?
I could go on forever.
I don’t really need a magazine.
I don’t really need discounts.
I don’t really need an organization that has COMMITTEES made up of a zillion people who couldn’t make a simple decision if their lives depended on it.
I don’t really want anything but a bare bones organization that keeps track of members, horses, show results in a simple format.
I’d love to see shows with ONE STANDARD entry form for every single show.
I’d love to see entry stickers using bar codes for horse entries to make it easy.
I don’t need to pay indirectly for big conferences telling people who to create even more complicated processes for GMO’s.
I want a simple penalty system for people who do not provide accurate information on horses - including their breeding and breeder.
I really feel the entire non- High Performance horse community is MILKED DRY. Yes we are the cows that just keep on being milked and get very little in return.
BTW - this isn’t the only discipline with people who are fed up. Years ago the Hunter Farm in Princeton - not far from where I live started putting on NON recognized H/J shows. They are a SUPER success - great entry form - SIMPLE.
[QUOTE=Touchstone Farm;3061781]
Unless you are interested in showing at recognized shows where you’d need the USDF number…if you are just interested in schooling shows and educational events, why the need for an affiliation with the USDF as a member?
Some possible membership reasons:
- The magazine? Okay, but USDF Connections can be substituted for Dressage Today or some other dressage magazine quite easily and reasonably too.
- The membership “deals” (rent a car, discounts on hotels). Personally never bothered with them myself, but perhaps others find this highly important.
- Access to judges and clinicians for events and/or schooling shows? (No, don’t think so. No one has ever asked if our GMO is affiliated with the USDF. They want to come, we pay them, end of story.)
- The USDF University? What do those “credits” get you? GMOs put on educational sessions and no paperwork to keep track of. It’s not like you can put your credits earned toward a degree on your resume!
- Participation in a “democratic” organization? As a GMO, to participate in the UDSF convention, we pay to send a delegate to the USDF convention and (with no hesitation at all), our GMO gives a small amount to Region 2 director’s expenses to travel to the annual convention. But as with this qualified rider proposal, in the end, will that “democracy” really matter or will this be passed regardless of member needs/wishes? Again, what does this process “get” for a GMO or individual member?
So, my question – from purely a consumer focus as if purchasing a product or service – what do I “get” from my USDF membership that my GMO can’t do for its members on its own? Why should the bulk of the membership (adult amateurs) provide so much of their time and money for an organization that seems to be focused on high performance? [/QUOTE]
Dressage is fairly new to me. I do not aspire to show at recognized shows. I will never buy a schoolmaster. I will always enjoy the process of learning as much as I can on an average horse.
In my slow, amateur dressage education, I have learned a few things:
- My first dues-paying year as a USDF member benefitted me in no way shape nor form (a complete waste of money that offered me nothing I couldn’t get on my own);
- Despite being a well-educated, fairly intellectual person, the whole USDF government is way too complicated for me to spend hobby time pursuing; and
- I do not “fit in” with the USDF crowd. The USDF’s marketing does not work to convince me that there are people like me in its ranks (read: working middle class). I prefer to associate with a group that I perceive is like me. This is not an insult. It is merely an observation of the social context of my socialization and aculturation.
Basically, there is no reason for me to be a member of the USDF. I suspect this is true for many people.
Good luck!
I would love to see this going. I truly think this is a better way to support our sport. Straight from the horse’s mouth.
Willem, who sincerely believed that he had several Olympic medals, would have agreed with you, Ted. :yes:
Want to help
Rebecca, I want to help. Could you PM me? With money, emailing, typing, etc. Thanks
Chiming in late here with some thoughts from across the pond. I haven’t followed the USDF debate in full so won’t comment, but I would like to share a bit of info about the UK equivalent of British Dressage.
There are approx 13,000 members vs approx 30,000 USDF last time I checked, which isn’t bad when you consider the respective sizes of our populations. It is the fastest growing of the affiliated disciplines.
Membership as a rider is approx £55 per year (so $110 ish 
) & horse registration is approx $120 for a year.
We don’t have schooling shows/rated shows. All shows run by BD (well actually under the auspices of BD and organised via show centres) are the same (bar “premier league” & international shows). Shows cost between $24 and $45 per class to enter, the higher levels being more expensive normally. A horse & rider must be registered to compete above prelim (first level upwards) so you can dip your toe at into & prelim (training) with minimal costs but don’t qualify unless a member.
There is a relatively small staffing at head office & a board of directors paid expenses only. We have regional commitees, consisting of a paid regional director & volunteers for the other spots. Training, judge training, competition centre liasing is arranged at regional level but you don’t have to pay extra to join a region & are free to attend any regions activities.
I think the sport offers excellent value for money & has a number of initiatives designed to bring added value to members who aren’t qualifying through to national level competition. There are no restrictions on the level you can compete at, except you must achieve a certain % at advanced before riding a PSG & if scoring below 50% at the fei levels must drop down a level & get certain scores to be eligibile to compete at FEI again. I see very very little abusive riding ever at shows & if there is any, it tends to be from forceful pros rather than incompetent amateurs.
Perhaps the reason for this system is the way we grade riders. We don’t split classes into am/pro but into open/restricted. You are not forced to enter the open class in a particular level until you have accumulated several scores at 60% at the level above. Competiton tends to be much stiffer in the open sections as this is where 99% of the pros ride at the lower levels. So, before one moves up a level it pays to be competent as if you are moving up to 2nd level, you will in effect be riding as a pro at first level in future. (you can of course ride HC to dip your toe at a level). This system works well & doesn’t prevent anyone who doesn’t compete much from progressing. If I stay at home training my 4yr old until he’s 7 and want to go out & start in 3rd level classes because he’s working PSG at home then I can :winkgrin:
Rebecca,
If you are serious about setting up another dressage organisation then I advise you to visit www.britishdressage.co.uk as I think it will prove useful! Nothing wrong with pinching the things that work & melding them to suit the US dressage base 
I’ll gladly answer any questions anyone has about BD to the best of my abilities!
Ok, I’m convinced. Count me in, too.
