Unsure if proud cut or just a behavior issue due to cut late in the game.....

[faye288]

So I’ll admit, first time horse owner, but been around horses/ volunteered at barns since high school,

I have a call out to the vet but my 6 year old arabian gelding was just introduced to the herd at a new barn (a week ago) and was at first starting to chase mares and now severely injure them (bites down their backs). He took a couple small chunks out of a gelding as well, but after really hurting an older mare the barn owner stepped in and said we had to separate him.

He had been slowly introduced to the herd via a fenced arena in the middle of the pasture for 2 weeks before turning him out with the herd with another gelding that he was a pasture mate with at his previous barn.

The barn owner suggested that he might be proud cut, although the vet that was used I highly doubt it. (although I know things happen) I was not the owner at the time he was cut, but I know the vet personally and she has done plenty of castrations. Now he was gelding late in life due to being passed around a bit before being owned by me, he was gelding at 19 months, which from my research I found is older than the recommended age. I’m wondering if this could be a late in life stallion behavior?

I have a call out to the vet to see about what we can do. Barn owner threw some suggestions like the Depo shot, which I found depo medrol and depo provera, both are pretty pricey, and I hesitate to do a steroid long term on a young animal anyways.

His natural disposition is lazy and low key unless spooked by a new object(s), like most young arabians Ive known. I 've had my 8 year old god-daughter walk him around the pasture with no issue before. He might get worked once a week, due to my busy schedule but that never seemed to bother him before (I could go a month with out riding him then jump back on him with no issues, which was insane for an arabian). My barn owner has now suggested upping his work schedule (which I will definitely be increasing). He has never been interested in mares in heat, he has never dropped for a mare in or out of heat, I have never seen him mount a mare. At the previous barns he was at he was with geldings for the most part unless he was placed with a mare by himself in a pasture just out of convenience of the barn owner, with little to no incidents. When he was 2-3 before I owned him he was at a mixed herd facility with no issues.

To wrap up I’m just hoping someone has had some experience similar and might have some direction to help me to go in. Has anyone used depo medrol long term starting in a young horse? any side effects?

Has anyone had a gelding try to stir up a herd so badly they injured mares? What did you do to solve the problem? Was separation the only solution?

[rememberthenight]

I don’t feel that being gelded at 19 months is late. Honestly, that is fairly common. Fall of the yearling year. I see being late cut as being a mature stallion and then being cut, 4yrs plus. And I have known many mature stallions be gelded and then be perfectly normal herd horses once hormones have come down.

Some geldings just PLAY hard and can’t be trusted in mixed herds. I find that my geldings like to do a lot of rough housing. Rearing, mouthing- stallion play. And they were gelded from 8 months to 4 years. The late cut one is the mellowest. The big gelding I gelded at 8 months is very naughty and will chase mares and be bad if he doesn’t have a strong herd leader and a goofball gelding to play rough with.

[faye288]

@rememberthenight

Some geldings just PLAY hard and can’t be trusted in mixed herds. I find that my geldings like to do a lot of rough housing. Rearing, mouthing- stallion play. And they were gelded from 8 months to 4 years. The late cut one is the mellowest. The big gelding I gelded at 8 months is very naughty and will chase mares and be bad if he doesn’t have a strong herd leader and a goofball gelding to play rough with.

Did you ever try working them more often to see if they played less/played less hard/rough? Or was separation the only option?
He has been pasture mate with an older calm docile gelding for a couple years with no incidents is where i get confused, does the combination of mares become the issue?

[Simkie]

Agreed that 19 months isn’t late at all. He sounds like a typical rough playing gelding. Yes, a mixed herd with mares often causes issues–which is why many barns turnout in sex separated groups.

When someone is talking about putting a horse on depo to control behavior that is potentially hormonal, they’re talking about depo provera, not medrol. Depo medrol would not help behavior.

This sounds like a horse that needs to be in a playful gelding turnout group, not one that needs to be turned out alone or medicated.

[jawa]

I have a 10 year old OTTB gelding. He hasn’t been in a mixed herd since I have owned him, going on 6 years, but he will act a bit studish on occasion. He is also one who will play rough with the geldings in turn out. Lots of bit marks and lost skin, occasionally he lands a kick.

I have found, for him, regular work does cut down on the injury rate. He is on his best behavior when he is worked 5 days a week, 30-90 minute rides (WTC). His behavior is ok with 3 rides a week. Once a week just doesn’t cut it.

I will add that the geldings he is turned out with instigate some of the rough housing…they haven’t learned they get the raw end of the deal.

[Bluey]

“Depo-” just means is in a long lasting preparation.

Depo-Medrol is a corticosteroid, Depo-Provera a hormone product.
Both, as depo- means, are long lasting, not for just a few hours, as those products normally are dispensed.

It may take a little more investigating to see why your gelding is rough to other horses, maybe find more compatible companions.

Some studies in Europe, especially Switzerland and France, have been for long now trying to determine how to keep horses in what some consider more natural systems, in herds of all sizes and pastures and pens of all kinds.

They are finding, as you did with your gelding, that not all horses get along well enough to recommend herd living for all horses.
Also, herd living involves more risks, something not everyone that cares for horses may be willing to accept in the name of horses living a more “natural” life.
Which is not so natural, in the wild some horses live alone, if by preference or because they don’t fit with others and are run off regularly and are injured in their scuffles also.

Horses come in all kinds, some attached to others, some rough to others, some loners.
We have to figure what is best for each horse we have and realize that will keep changing also, as horses also change.

I expect your vet may run a hormone blood panel to rule out that as a problem.

[Ghazzu]

The whole “proud cut” thing is malarkey.
Unless a testicle was left, there is no testosterone production.
The epididymis does not synthesize testosterone.
The Leydig cells of the testis do.

There is some small amount of testosterone production by the adrenal gland, but it does not sound like this is the problem with your gelding.

[Scribbler]

It’s pretty standard to keep a mare herd and a gelding herd separate at many barns. Obviously your horse cannot be in a mixed group safely. So now you know. Honestly I don’t think more riding diminishes a horse’s sexual energy unless you totally exhaust him.

I would be worried about the length of time it took your BO to separate them. No horse should be allowed to be seriously injured in this way.