Unwanted lesson auditors

[RockinHorse]

[QUOTE=Kaylinne;8852532]
Thank you, everyone for contributing to this interesting scenario. I will report things some what came to a head yesterday which, although uncoumfortable, has, I believe resolved the issue. Please allow me to explain the events. I had scheduled my top rider for an impromptu lesson late Sunday at rider’s request. She needed me to eyeball something that tangled her up on Saturday when riding a combination at a show. I could not attend the show for family reasons, so we scheduled this odd time lesson. Not a big deal for me as I pay to lease the arena- which is one of three. So its always available to me. As a courtesy to the BO, I did post on the white board we wld hv the odd time session. We are warming up in the arena, no one else at the entire facility- after supper & eve turn out time… Guess who suddenly appears with chair & snacks? I stopped the warm up, turned to our “guest” and asked if there was something I could do for her. “No”. I explained we were working through some tricky issues and perhaps she might leave us to concentrate. Instead, she moved up into the judge’s stand and took out a hand-held digital recorder, promising she would be quiet but would be recording the session. I was in the middle of kindly saying this would not be appropriate and if she wanted a lesson at a later time, I would speak with her later. ( of course after wstching me 3x a week for a year- she wasn’t planning on taking lessons). Well, about then my student, a 40 yr old, competitive jumper came cantering up and told our unwanted observor that she ( my student) had HAD it with paying for private lessons with this railbird watching for free 3x a week for a year and there was no way my rider said she would allow her lesson to be videoed unless she asked for it to be videoed. My rider prceded to tell this gal she did not want her coming back to watch her lessons and to stop making “snide comments” to others in the barn about my rider’s skill level. (I didn’t know about the post-lesson quarterbacking in the barn). Our uninvited guest was not pleased by this confrontation by my rider so proceded to leave while giving rather derogatory comments of the rider & horse.
I believe this brings an end to the year long rail siege. As my rider headed back to our warm up, she looked down at me and said she apologized for butting in but she had been sick of this person watching her lessons which she paid for, then hearing back at the barn, a full critique from the observer of everything wrong. My rider told me she kept" waiting for me to bounce this woman from the rail but was glad to butt in and now let’s get back to my lesson". Okay, then! Take home message: my gut instincts were right-- some one who watches others’ lessons 3x/ week for a year is not a normal occurrence. I didn’t know it bothered my rider. She took care of it-thankfully- but I ought to have been more professional. I am new to teaching- not riding—but teaching. Henceforth: if it feels skanky- unethical-uncomfortable— it likely is so handle it. That’s how I managed a successful law practice over decades. Professionalism IS professionalism. Lessoned learned.[/QUOTE]

Well looks like this sure added to the drama level at this barn :rolleyes:

As to the videoing of the lesson, as long as the person videoing my lesson will share the video with me, I say “go for it”

[AmmyByNature]

I don’t think I believe this. I’m sure there was a bit of truth in the first post, but everything after that follows a familiar pattern.

OP posts, expecting everyone to agree with her. People don’t agree so she manufacturers something more extreme. “Oh you guys are okay with this? Well, let me tell you what ACTUALLY happened.” But we still don’t agree, so OP doubles down. “Really? You’re still not on my side? Well let me tell you about this OTHER thing that’s so crazy that you HAVE to agree with me!”

I’m sure the OP is upset, but this just doesn’t ring true. And now an elaborate story to build up to this weird lesson time involving family commitments and something tricky that happens between the elements of a combination? No lesson student says something like that.

I call shenanigans.

[APirateLooksAtForty]

Different perspective: I am not a trainer but we have an epidemic basically of fellow clients/boarders watching our lessons and critiquing. Making nasty comments under their breath during the lessons, after the lessons to their “friends,” and in veiled passive aggressive commentary to the riders afterwards. I certainly wish there was some way these lovely railbirds could be banned from watching. I find it very distracting as the rider, as you can probably imagine. I’m not the only one bothered by it at my barn but as this thread makes clear there is not much you can do about watchers.

[red_mares]

I still think the OP has an overdeveloped sense of her own importance.

[Russinka]

[QUOTE=APirateLooksAtForty;8853097]
Different perspective: I am not a trainer but we have an epidemic basically of fellow clients/boarders watching our lessons and critiquing. Making nasty comments under their breath during the lessons, after the lessons to their “friends,” and in veiled passive aggressive commentary to the riders afterwards. I certainly wish there was some way these lovely railbirds could be banned from watching. I find it very distracting as the rider, as you can probably imagine. I’m not the only one bothered by it at my barn but as this thread makes clear there is not much you can do about watchers.[/QUOTE]

It can be a real knock to the confidence having a bunch of hangers on watching every little stuff up that happens, even if they don’t make comments later. I know I tend to be distracted by people, especially if I’ve just stuffed something up or my horse has become confused. Not everyone has lessons to compete, when I was riding I took them to improve my trail horse’s dressage skills so he was a better ride on the track and to improve my ability. If I wanted judgement from the peanut gallery then I would show.

Also, if I’m spending my hard earned money on an instructor, have taken the time to organize and book a lesson and got my horse prepped for it why should a bunch of randoms get that instructors know how for free? If they want a lesson they need to book it, pay for it and show up for it.

Simply expecting to have viewing access to a trainer someone else has booked just because you happen to board/agist or whatever at the same place is pretty darn entitled, especially if there are other rings or arenas to ride in. Fair enough if the person riding and the trainer are okay with it if asked but just showing up and expecting. Not on. Expecting to do so multiple times. Not on. It’s like expecting free access to a clinic that is being held on the property.

I’ve never encountered this attitude in Aus though, so I’m guessing it’s a USA thing.

[Crockpot]

I think the video part and the rider being upset part were added when the thread did not go as anticipated.

I have been on this board long enough to see the pattern. When some OPs do not get the responses they want, they keep adding ‘facts’ until they can say they were right afterall.

Take home message: my gut instincts were right–

Person comes out with chair and snacks and insists on videoing the lesson- rider has been upset for a year about it?

now that is a far cry from the OP. Not buying it. JMO

Going back to the original issue- it does not matter what other people think about it- at that barn boarders are allowed to watch lessons. OP made drama about that and likely p%ssed off some people who were supported by the BM. There was nothing about videos in the OP.

[vxf111]

I’m going to call BS on pretty much the whole story. Too many details don’t make sense

Post #1 says it’s two specific ladies, lesson times can’t be moved, and she TALKED with the main lady (so main lady clearly knows OP doesn’t approve of the watching). BO told OP she can’t prohibit watching. OP mentions NOTHING about the main lady teaching lessons at all, let alone ones cribbed from the OP. Pretty critical detail.

Most everyone tells the OP she’s overreacting.

Post #23 uses “site” as an abbreviation for “citation.” Lawyers live and die by citations. We know it’s “cite.” The general public talks more about "websites than “citations” and so uses the term “site” more often. I don’t think many attorneys would write “I sited that case in my brief” so it’s a pretty funny error for a lawyer to make. And only now does the story turn into one about the railbird being another trainer who steals lesson plans.

Again she’s mostly told to get over it/be flattered.

OP comes back with a few more “forgotten” details like that she tears down after her lessons. Post #42. And there are LOTS of arenas open to boarders. Post #43. More details “left out” originally.

And OP is fishing for attention/replies, post #45.

In post #55 suddenly we learn that OP is “a retired attorney from corp copyright law & intellectual property.” A turn of phrase I’ve never heard an attorney use to describe her practice area (copyright is part of IP. That’s kind of odd. She doesn’t really express herself much like a lawyer, IMHO. And seems to show no understanding of, say, fair use. Lawyers “steal” ALL THE TIME. Find a brief that looks on point, crib from it. Hear a good turn of phrase at an oral argument, use it. HAVE AN ASSOCIATE WRITE THE MOTION, PUT YOUR NAME ON I. Honestly, lawyers use each other’s stuff CONSTANTLY so it’s a very odd thing for someone who is a former IP lawyer to get upset because someone watched her performance in a quasi-public venue and used parts of it.
Again she’s mostly told she’s overreacting.

Post #77 we learn the OP is a super great, appreciative person. Apropos of nothing really, but ok.

Aside from a few back pats, most everyone still seems to think she’s overreacting vis-à-vis the lesson situation.

And then we get post #122. There’s an impromptu lesson but somehow railbird knows to be there with snacks, a chair, and a camcorder (if it was impromptu, how did railbird know to come prepared?) This lesson was scheduled after client had a problem with a combination at a show the day before (that’s bizarre and mysterious, and requires a next day fix?!) yet somehow despite this being a less than 24 hour impromptu event, trainer got to the barn (one of many where she teaches) and put it on the whiteboard in advance. Even though she was presumably, at the show the day before?! Does she have a teleporter?! When asked not to watch, railbird instead starts filing in defiance. Only then does student (40 year old competitive jumper—who apparent needs lessons within 24 hours after having combination trouble at a show) reveal she dislikes the watching, and she demands railbird leave. AND now we learn railbird is making comments back at the barn about lessons.

And now problem is SOLVE and OP is VINDICATED and she was RIGHT and we were WRONG ALL ALONG. Hurrah.

Sorry, I think the whole thing is made up. I don’t know why. I don’t think OP is a lawyer or even an adult. I think she’s a teen. And I am not sure what the endgame is, but I am irritated that I took her at face value in the beginning.

[vxf111]

I’m going to call BS on pretty much the whole story. Too many details don’t make sense

Post #1 says it’s two specific ladies, lesson times can’t be moved, and she TALKED with the main lady (so main lady clearly knows OP doesn’t approve of the watching). BO told OP she can’t prohibit watching. OP mentions NOTHING about the main lady teaching lessons at all, let alone ones cribbed from the OP. Pretty critical detail.

Most everyone tells the OP she’s overreacting.

Post #23 uses “site” as an abbreviation for “citation.” Lawyers live and die by citations. We know it’s “cite.” The general public talks more about "websites than “citations” and so uses the term “site” more often. I don’t think many attorneys would write “I sited that case in my brief” so it’s a pretty funny error for a lawyer to make. And only now does the story turn into one about the railbird being another trainer who steals lesson plans.

Again she’s mostly told to get over it/be flattered.

OP comes back with a few more “forgotten” details like that she tears down after her lessons. Post #42. And there are LOTS of arenas open to boarders. Post #43. More details “left out” originally.

And OP is fishing for attention/replies, post #45.

In post #55 suddenly we learn that OP is “a retired attorney from corp copyright law & intellectual property.” A turn of phrase I’ve never heard an attorney use to describe her practice area (copyright is part of IP, and what non-corporate IP does someone practice?) That’s kind of odd. She doesn’t really express herself much like a lawyer, IMHO. And seems to show no understanding of, say, fair use. Lawyers “steal” ALL THE TIME. Find a brief that looks on point, crib from it. Hear a good turn of phrase at an oral argument, use it. HAVE AN ASSOCIATE WRITE THE MOTION, PUT YOUR NAME ON IT. Honestly, lawyers use each other’s stuff CONSTANTLY so it’s a very odd thing for someone who is a former IP lawyer to get upset because someone watched her performance in a quasi-public venue and used parts of it.
Again she’s mostly told she’s overreacting.

Post #77 we learn the OP is a super great, appreciative person. Apropos of nothing really, but ok.

Aside from a few back pats, most everyone still seems to think she’s overreacting vis-à-vis the lesson situation.

And then we get post #122. There’s an impromptu lesson but somehow railbird knows to be there with snacks, a chair, and a camcorder (if it was impromptu, how did railbird know to come prepared?) This lesson was scheduled after client had a problem with a combination at a show the day before (that’s bizarre and mysterious, and requires a next day fix?!) yet somehow despite this being a less than 24 hour impromptu event, trainer got to the barn (one of many where she teaches) and put it on the whiteboard in advance. Even though she was presumably, at the show the day before?! Does she have a teleporter?! When asked not to watch, railbird instead starts filing in defiance. Only then does student (40 year old competitive jumper—who apparent needs lessons within 24 hours after having combination trouble at a show) reveal she dislikes the watching, and she demands railbird leave. AND now we learn railbird is making comments back at the barn about lessons.

And now problem is SOLVE and OP is VINDICATED and she was RIGHT and we were WRONG ALL ALONG. Hurrah.

Sorry, I think the whole thing is made up. I don’t know why. I don’t think OP is a lawyer or even an adult. I think she’s a teen. And I am not sure what the endgame is, but I am irritated that I took her at face value in the beginning.

[Foxglove6]

The first few responses to the original story were questions about how the riders themselves felt. The implication from the OP was that the riders were NOT bothered by the watchers. If the original story had been that instructor and client are both frustrated and unhappy with watchers, the responses would have been very different.

I’m getting on that train with guacamole.

[vxf111]

My browser has become totally incompatible with COTH. Sorry for the duplicate.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Kaylinne;8852532]
Thank you, everyone for contributing to this interesting scenario. I will report things some what came to a head yesterday which, although uncoumfortable, has, I believe resolved the issue. Please allow me to explain the events.

I had scheduled my top rider for an impromptu lesson late Sunday at rider’s request. She needed me to eyeball something that tangled her up on Saturday when riding a combination at a show. I could not attend the show for family reasons, so we scheduled this odd time lesson. Not a big deal for me as I pay to lease the arena- which is one of three. So its always available to me. As a courtesy to the BO, I did post on the white board we wld hv the odd time session.

We are warming up in the arena, no one else at the entire facility- after supper & eve turn out time… Guess who suddenly appears with chair & snacks?

I stopped the warm up, turned to our “guest” and asked if there was something I could do for her. “No”. I explained we were working through some tricky issues and perhaps she might leave us to concentrate.

Instead, she moved up into the judge’s stand and took out a hand-held digital recorder, promising she would be quiet but would be recording the session. I was in the middle of kindly saying this would not be appropriate and if she wanted a lesson at a later time, I would speak with her later. ( of course after wstching me 3x a week for a year- she wasn’t planning on taking lessons).

Well, about then my student, a 40 yr old, competitive jumper came cantering up and told our unwanted observor that she ( my student) had HAD it with paying for private lessons with this railbird watching for free 3x a week for a year and there was no way my rider said she would allow her lesson to be videoed unless she asked for it to be videoed.

My rider prceded to tell this gal she did not want her coming back to watch her lessons and to stop making “snide comments” to others in the barn about my rider’s skill level. (I didn’t know about the post-lesson quarterbacking in the barn).

Our uninvited guest was not pleased by this confrontation by my rider so proceded to leave while giving rather derogatory comments of the rider & horse.
I believe this brings an end to the year long rail siege.

As my rider headed back to our warm up, she looked down at me and said she apologized for butting in but she had been sick of this person watching her lessons which she paid for, then hearing back at the barn, a full critique from the observer of everything wrong.
My rider told me she kept" waiting for me to bounce this woman from the rail but was glad to butt in and now let’s get back to my lesson". Okay, then!

Take home message: my gut instincts were right-- some one who watches others’ lessons 3x/ week for a year is not a normal occurrence. I didn’t know it bothered my rider. She took care of it-thankfully- but I ought to have been more professional. I am new to teaching- not riding—but teaching.

Henceforth: if it feels skanky- unethical-uncomfortable— it likely is so handle it. That’s how I managed a successful law practice over decades. Professionalism IS professionalism. Lessoned learned.[/QUOTE]

Please allow me to add paragraphs for you. :eek:

[ladyj79]

]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8853224]
I’m going to call BS on pretty much the whole story. Too many details don’t make sense

Post #1 says it’s two specific ladies, lesson times can’t be moved, and she TALKED with the main lady (so main lady clearly knows OP doesn’t approve of the watching). BO told OP she can’t prohibit watching. OP mentions NOTHING about the main lady teaching lessons at all, let alone ones cribbed from the OP. Pretty critical detail.

Most everyone tells the OP she’s overreacting.

Post #23 uses “site” as an abbreviation for “citation.” Lawyers live and die by citations. We know it’s “cite.” The general public talks more about "websites than “citations” and so uses the term “site” more often. I don’t think many attorneys would write “I sited that case in my brief” so it’s a pretty funny error for a lawyer to make. And only now does the story turn into one about the railbird being another trainer who steals lesson plans.

Again she’s mostly told to get over it/be flattered.

OP comes back with a few more “forgotten” details like that she tears down after her lessons. Post #42. And there are LOTS of arenas open to boarders. Post #43. More details “left out” originally.

And OP is fishing for attention/replies, post #45.

In post #55 suddenly we learn that OP is “a retired attorney from corp copyright law & intellectual property.” A turn of phrase I’ve never heard an attorney use to describe her practice area (copyright is part of IP. That’s kind of odd. She doesn’t really express herself much like a lawyer, IMHO. And seems to show no understanding of, say, fair use. Lawyers “steal” ALL THE TIME. Find a brief that looks on point, crib from it. Hear a good turn of phrase at an oral argument, use it. HAVE AN ASSOCIATE WRITE THE MOTION, PUT YOUR NAME ON I. Honestly, lawyers use each other’s stuff CONSTANTLY so it’s a very odd thing for someone who is a former IP lawyer to get upset because someone watched her performance in a quasi-public venue and used parts of it.
Again she’s mostly told she’s overreacting.

Post #77 we learn the OP is a super great, appreciative person. Apropos of nothing really, but ok.

Aside from a few back pats, most everyone still seems to think she’s overreacting vis-à-vis the lesson situation.

And then we get post #122. There’s an impromptu lesson but somehow railbird knows to be there with snacks, a chair, and a camcorder (if it was impromptu, how did railbird know to come prepared?) This lesson was scheduled after client had a problem with a combination at a show the day before (that’s bizarre and mysterious, and requires a next day fix?!) yet somehow despite this being a less than 24 hour impromptu event, trainer got to the barn (one of many where she teaches) and put it on the whiteboard in advance. Even though she was presumably, at the show the day before?! Does she have a teleporter?! When asked not to watch, railbird instead starts filing in defiance. Only then does student (40 year old competitive jumper—who apparent needs lessons within 24 hours after having combination trouble at a show) reveal she dislikes the watching, and she demands railbird leave. AND now we learn railbird is making comments back at the barn about lessons.

And now problem is SOLVE and OP is VINDICATED and she was RIGHT and we were WRONG ALL ALONG. Hurrah.

Sorry, I think the whole thing is made up. I don’t know why. I don’t think OP is a lawyer or even an adult. I think she’s a teen. And I am not sure what the endgame is, but I am irritated that I took her at face value in the beginning.[/QUOTE]

I love you vfx111 and I appreciate your lengthy response.

Where can I send your thank you card and finger sandwiches?

[RugBug]

I don’t think the story is made up. I do, however, think it’s a bit over the top. The trainer comes across a bit into herself, but I suppose I understand the frustration of feeling like someone is “stealing” your ideas. The problem is, as many of us posted, none of her instruction is truly “hers” and even if she had some revolutionary new idea that the railbirds took, you can’t just repeat words/exercises and get the same results. A riding instructor has to be able to see what is happening with the horse and rider in order to give proper instruction at the proper time. Timing and feel is everything with horses and it takes a long time to develop that as an instructor. I wouldn’t worry about the railbirds.

@APirateLooksAtForty;8853097

Different perspective: I am not a trainer but we have an epidemic basically of fellow clients/boarders watching our lessons and critiquing. Making nasty comments under their breath during the lessons, after the lessons to their “friends,” and in veiled passive aggressive commentary to the riders afterwards. I certainly wish there was some way these lovely railbirds could be banned from watching. I find it very distracting as the rider, as you can probably imagine. I’m not the only one bothered by it at my barn but as this thread makes clear there is not much you can do about watchers.[/QUOTE]

I’ve ridden around some pretty critical people at a variety of different barns for most of my life. They will ALWAYS be there 'Tis much better to learn to block them out than to try to make them go away. It is actually a great life skill. You can’t control what other people say about you, but you can control your reaction to it. They only have power if we allow them to have power.

[QUOTE=Russinka;8853138]It can be a real knock to the confidence having a bunch of hangers on watching every little stuff up that happens, even if they don’t make comments later. I know I tend to be distracted by people, especially if I’ve just stuffed something up or my horse has become confused. Not everyone has lessons to compete, when I was riding I took them to improve my trail horse’s dressage skills so he was a better ride on the track and to improve my ability. If I wanted judgement from the peanut gallery then I would show.

Work on your confidence. Heck, I have had some pretty bad periods and I deal with it by acknowledging it and working on it. I couldn’t give to flying @#$s what others think of my riding and what I’m working on. I’m working on what I need to and if they have such an opinion about it, how sad for them. They are the miserable, pathetic ones. I will not allow them to sway me from my course or to make me feel bad about myself or my horses.

@Russinka

Also, if I’m spending my hard earned money on an instructor, have taken the time to organize and book a lesson and got my horse prepped for it why should a bunch of randoms get that instructors know how for free? If they want a lesson they need to book it, pay for it and show up for it.

Simply expecting to have viewing access to a trainer someone else has booked just because you happen to board/agist or whatever at the same place is pretty darn entitled, especially if there are other rings or arenas to ride in. Fair enough if the person riding and the trainer are okay with it if asked but just showing up and expecting. Not on. Expecting to do so multiple times. Not on. It’s like expecting free access to a clinic that is being held on the property.

I’ve never encountered this attitude in Aus though, so I’m guessing it’s a USA thing.

It’s not entitled to watch someone else’s lessons. It’s a few things such as passing time, gleaning, and heck, for kind people, cheering on a fellow boarder.

The majority of trainers are just fine with people watching lessons. Some will even include them in the lesson to explain what they are addressing. It’s how horseman are made. Sharing knowledge is an important part of our industry and it doesn’t all have to have a dollar sign attached to it. Thigns cost enough already. Do we really think that every tidbit of information has a monetary value?

If you don’t want anyone else to watch, buy your own place and bring an instructor to you.

[thecolorcoal]

i just want to note that this thread actually made me feel guilty for liking to sit in and watch lessons… i didn’t know that counted as “auditing,” considering i prefer to watch the girls at the barn jump and see their progress. Now i am wondering if i am sort of freeloading! i hope that isn’t the case…

I agree with everyone else though. I understand that they are trying to rip your lessons (with the camera and all). Maybe it would be beneficial to get them involved with the lesson? that way they aren’t sitting there “stealing,” but are contributing. Maybe they would feel less anxious about asking you for lessons if they got to help and were made useful instead of a pest stealing your lesson plans?

I also agree that if they are so inclined to use what you were teaching after the lesson is over, you must be ONE GOOD TEACHER. so bask in that! if they don’t want to be clients, fine. h*ll with them. but know that you are doing something right if they’re using your material it must be super good secret sauce!

[toady123]

If this is true I understand the concern. This is not someone hanging out and watching a friend lesson. This is not a senior instructor mentoring an up and coming instructor.

This is someone knowingly and purposefully inserting themselves into a lesson with the sole purpose of using the material for their own gain, providing direct competition to the OP.

With that said, an honest discussion, an offer to mentor, or a clear reques to leave in behalf of the covent may have been more effective. Now it’s blown up so the point is mooted the end of the day she’s going to do what she wants if the BO isn’t pushing the issue. If she really is just parroting things it will come across because she won’t be as effective as an instructor if she doesn’t really know how to apply the content effectively.

[RockinHorse]

With all these doubting Thomases, how long do you think it will be before the 40 yr old, competitive jumper signs up for COTH and posts to tell us everything is true?

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8853261]
Please allow me to add paragraphs for you. :eek:[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I was wondering how a retired corporate attorney could have such egregious writing skills. Perhaps it is a testimony to the efficiency of the clerks who work for attorneys and an indictment of her university.

As to the OP’s problem, I am glad it is resolved. She sounds like a fun instructor who strives to be nice and suffers for it sometimes.

[IPEsq]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8853224]
I’m going to call BS on pretty much the whole story. Too many details don’t make sense

Post #1 says it’s two specific ladies, lesson times can’t be moved, and she TALKED with the main lady (so main lady clearly knows OP doesn’t approve of the watching). BO told OP she can’t prohibit watching. OP mentions NOTHING about the main lady teaching lessons at all, let alone ones cribbed from the OP. Pretty critical detail.

Most everyone tells the OP she’s overreacting.

Post #23 uses “site” as an abbreviation for “citation.” Lawyers live and die by citations. We know it’s “cite.” The general public talks more about "websites than “citations” and so uses the term “site” more often. I don’t think many attorneys would write “I sited that case in my brief” so it’s a pretty funny error for a lawyer to make. And only now does the story turn into one about the railbird being another trainer who steals lesson plans.

Again she’s mostly told to get over it/be flattered.

OP comes back with a few more “forgotten” details like that she tears down after her lessons. Post #42. And there are LOTS of arenas open to boarders. Post #43. More details “left out” originally.

And OP is fishing for attention/replies, post #45.

In post #55 suddenly we learn that OP is “a retired attorney from corp copyright law & intellectual property.” A turn of phrase I’ve never heard an attorney use to describe her practice area (copyright is part of IP. That’s kind of odd. She doesn’t really express herself much like a lawyer, IMHO. And seems to show no understanding of, say, fair use. Lawyers “steal” ALL THE TIME. Find a brief that looks on point, crib from it. Hear a good turn of phrase at an oral argument, use it. HAVE AN ASSOCIATE WRITE THE MOTION, PUT YOUR NAME ON I. Honestly, lawyers use each other’s stuff CONSTANTLY so it’s a very odd thing for someone who is a former IP lawyer to get upset because someone watched her performance in a quasi-public venue and used parts of it.
Again she’s mostly told she’s overreacting.

Post #77 we learn the OP is a super great, appreciative person. Apropos of nothing really, but ok.

Aside from a few back pats, most everyone still seems to think she’s overreacting vis-à-vis the lesson situation.

And then we get post #122. There’s an impromptu lesson but somehow railbird knows to be there with snacks, a chair, and a camcorder (if it was impromptu, how did railbird know to come prepared?) This lesson was scheduled after client had a problem with a combination at a show the day before (that’s bizarre and mysterious, and requires a next day fix?!) yet somehow despite this being a less than 24 hour impromptu event, trainer got to the barn (one of many where she teaches) and put it on the whiteboard in advance. Even though she was presumably, at the show the day before?! Does she have a teleporter?! When asked not to watch, railbird instead starts filing in defiance. Only then does student (40 year old competitive jumper—who apparent needs lessons within 24 hours after having combination trouble at a show) reveal she dislikes the watching, and she demands railbird leave. AND now we learn railbird is making comments back at the barn about lessons.

And now problem is SOLVE and OP is VINDICATED and she was RIGHT and we were WRONG ALL ALONG. Hurrah.

Sorry, I think the whole thing is made up. I don’t know why. I don’t think OP is a lawyer or even an adult. I think she’s a teen. And I am not sure what the endgame is, but I am irritated that I took her at face value in the beginning.[/QUOTE]

Ok, I’m going to start lobbying for equestrian instruction to comprise copyrightable choreographic works. But beware… if the OP is using a gymnastic that was first fixed in, say, Jimmy Woffard’s book, then she’s going to have to fork over some statutory royalties.

:rolleyes:

[Kaylinne]

Thank you all very much for your comments & insights: Positive & negative. I have found them to be most helpful-really. For those who believe I have “blown smoke”, I actually presented the situation as I percieved the events. The student involved has a busy professional life so Sunday was our best chance for an assessment lesson. This individual’s personality is “get it done-now”, very competitive and also a very busy life. Sun eve seemed to fit. I asked the student to put it on the white board out of courtesy to the barn. The observer did not have a camcorder- rather an iphone. I had no idea post-lesson comments were being made. I typically finish with my student, put my equipment away & leave. I see that I have been rather naïve in approaching teaching. I am new to this side. I didn’t board my horses, so I either hauled in for any of my lessons with my instructor or he came to my farm. I continue to own a farm but liability insurance for me/my property to teach a few students is simply not worth it. My farm is a private one- not for boarding/lessons/sales. I frankly don’t have lengthy experience with boarding facilities. I see that the majority of responders here feel it is the norm to observe other instructor/riders’ lessons on a regular basis. Some posters have commented they are uncomfortable being observed others welcome it.
I feel my personal situation has resolved. I also have a better understanding of current expectations & accepted practices at some boarding facilities, thanks to your comments /advise . May I suggest we identify the take-home messages from this lengthy post that might benefit all vs finding means to refute the authenticity of my account or discuss the semantics, morphology & syntax of my posts, which I admit, are not edited & perhaps ought to be. My take-homes are: to “lighten up”, to learn more about current boarding accepted practices so I don’t over react should I decide to continue working with a few students, I need to diplomatically inquire if my students are having any outside issues ir are uncomfortable with any aspect of our lessons. I might suggest to some reading this controversial post, that good manners never go out of fashion. Thus it may be a courtesy to first ask if its okay to observe a lesson or lessons. If the student or instructor says, “sure, for a few lessons”, then honor that. If the instructor or student says, " Not for a while, please, as this is a nervous ride, or nervous horse, or, ir, or. Perhaps don’t assume its always okay. I have observed many many instructors over the years. I’ve always asked permission. Personally, I would feel uncomfortable watching lesson after lesson, unless I, too, were a paying student. But that is a personal choice. I came up riding in the 50’s & 60’s. My approach comes from a different era. I have not kept up with nuances at present-day barns. Times do change. For those whose opinion of me gleaned from these posts is that if a self-important, kniw-it-all, I apologize if I have offended you. I assure you, I am a tough cookie in many respects, but I have demonstrated great kindness, compassion & generosity to many people & animals over the numerous decades of my life. I believe horsemanship is a life-long pursuit that does nit include a finite date when one can declare, “I know everything about horses”. I do extend my apologies to those offended by my comments. I assure you, no offense has been intended. Happy, safe riding to all of you. Thank you for helping me on my rather-late-in-life foray into instruction. I have learned from your comments. Best wishes to this thread’s participants.

[vxf111]

Paragraphs. They’re so good, they’re so good, they’re so good. Baby they’re so good.

(fair use parody)