UPDATE #2 - Orphan Foal: Last Video, Last Post.

[pwynnnorman]

We lost a very talented, sweet, young mare yesterday (I believe the way it is put is that she “bled out” after foaling). She left us with a lovely baby, but I am so inexperienced with orphans! I know I can go to websites or do a search to get information – and my vet has been very good, too, of course – but the thing I appreciate the most about this BB is the interaction…and that I don’t feel like a fool asking stupid questions since I’ve been around so long and have already asked plenty of them.

So, I’d really, really appreciate the advice of anyone with an viewpoint on this, especially some specific things.

1.) We’re feeding her every hour, and also on demand, when possible. Like, right now, as I’m typing this, I’m sitting under a tree in our front yard with the baby lying on the grass nearby. When she gets us and comes over, I offer her the bottle. But our vet said that she can eat out of bucket and that some foals learn to do so in only a day or two (she is one day old). She did learn quickly, but she prefers the bottle and the nipples that come on the ready-made buckets were way too fat, so I got her sucking up the Foal lac directly from the bucket.

Is that OK? When she is really hungry, she seems to drink a LOT of milk extremely fast. About 10 ounces within a couple of minutes.

After I let her have the bucket, I also give her a bottle because my sister prefers to give her the bottle and I need my sister’s help because I am overwhelmed with work. Is going back and forth a bad idea? Also, the vet said that the milk replacer can be left in the bucket overnight, but the package says to discard it after three, which is what we’ve been doing – and we don’t leave the bucket in the stall because we’re afraid she’ll get her head stuck in it.

So, what are the best techniques for feeding an orphan foal, at least through the first week to ten days? Oh, and everything I’ve read so far seems to point to those first ten days as being very important (and that after that, one can breathe a bit more easily). Why? What should I be looking for (besides going off her feed, constipation, high temps and stuff like that)?

And the poop! What about the poop? She seemed constipated for a while, but my sister didn’t tell me until this morning, then when I gave her the enema, I was surprised that nothing came out – and then it was just the clear enema fliud…and then orangy stuff with only a little substance. In the past, when I’ve given enemas (soon after birth, not 16 hours later), what has come out has been very dark and somewhat hard. And then, just an hour ago, something that looked like opaque SNOT came out! What is going on? (She continues to nurse fine, though.)

OK, I told you I was looking for hand-holding, so I know I’m sounding a bit silly, but, but…well, I’ve never HAD a baby before! Not even a humane one! I have totally no confidence in what I’m doing.

[alliekat]

So sorry to hear of your loss Wynn. Here is the Igloo I remember reading about
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:nG3RPtdY0_QJ:www.fairviewhorsecenter.com/Orphan_foal.doc+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjVvcd4crBKaKbsZC5A_i-GS0ZdVPqLHyTq3ZDECNwm2q8qaBlEqJNfu9EW--n0jwXIdO-JCbpyjDAiVLPiQ7aHWVxkr6I8U3kqwNNgcqutkeMzHgk3la0euMX1dbURwMve-WYj&sig=AHIEtbS_wemK-37FqEghlFi1hhZQW00AuQ

[FLIPPED_HER_HALO]

I’m so sorry about the loss of your mare. Godspeed…and sending jingles for your foal.

[Somermist]

Hey Wynn,
Again, so sorry about the mare. We used the igloo cooler modified with a nipple, a smaller one, for our orphan. I still have the instructions if you want to take a look. It was easy to do, the cover keeps the flies out and the formula temp more constant. We hung it in the stall or outside off the fence. Our boy would drink out of a bucket after a while just fine also.

I don’t think there is a right or wrong. If she is eating well, I think it is ok.

Good luck with her.

Barb

[SGray]

if available nursemare, companion mare, companion goat/sheep can really help with social issues

the igloo thing should really help with feeding

did you milk the colustrum out of the mare? if not did you get some in baby from another source?

if you have to take her to vet try to be there with her – despite best efforts sometimes vet helpers go with expediency over gentleness and bad experiences can take eons for baby to get over

for what it’s worth (future reference) my first mare had bleeding issues after birth (don’t have details as she was leased out) and when all other efforts failed the clinic infused her uterus with formaldehyde - bleeding halted - mare had successful pregnancy/birth in subsequent years

and {{{hugs}}} to you

[Home_Again_Farm]

If you can’t get the igloo to work (and I hope you can as it will save a lot of work), a bucket is fine. I highly recommend Buckeye’s mare’s milk replacer, as it is acidified which keeps it from spoiling. Feeding with a bucket is actually safer than trying to bottle feed, as you have less chance of the foal aspirating and possibly developing pneumonia from that. So, I’d explain that to your sister and hope that she sees the wisdom behind the bucket.

I used the little buckets with a flat back rather than a regular sized water bucket for feeding. They are readily available at OBS and other feed stores in Ocala. I would not worry about hanging one in the stall. My routine (with the acidified milk replacer) was to hang a new a bucket every 8 hours following Buckeye’s chart for what the foal should be consuming by age. When I replaced a bucket, I would measure what was left, so that I had a record of what the foal was consuming.

The usual problem with milk replacer is diarrhea, rather than constipation. If you got orange poop, the meconium (the initial dark manure) has been passed and you are seeing normal foal manure. Be on the lookout for diarrhea and if it smells foul or is greenish call your vet immediately. If the foal did not get enough colostrum, you run a high risk of clostridia. Hopefully, she got plenty and all will be well. I assume your vet did an IGg?

It is good to put some fresh manure from a healthy adult horse where the orphan can eat it (gross, I know, but beneficial) to help it get a good flora in its gut. It would be eating mom’s poop, if it could.

I have had a couple of orphans and another bucket baby whose mom did not have sufficient milk, so ask away. It is a tough job, but rewarding to raise one successfully.

[RunningwaterWBs]

That article alliecat posted is really good and has some good tips, too.

My sister and I raised one. I recommend getting them on the bucket as soon as you can. There’s not a huge rush – sometime in the next week or so will be fine, but you want to avoid having them associate you with the millk bar if possible. The one we raised was very pushy about his feedings. We overlooked it for a number of weeks, just happy he was alive, but has remained pushy and disrespectful around humans his whole life. In hindsight, I would have much rather he associated the buckets with lunch, not us! That’s why the cooler idea is so great; it allows you distance from the foal during feeding. In leiu of the cooler, I’d actually consider using a funnel and tubing to get milk into the bucket without the foal realizing where it comes from – or, distract the foal and change buckets without her realizing. I know that sounds extreme, but I think our foal would have turned out better if we’d done that.

Also, the cooler will let you get some sleep!

We used the small buckets like HAF, hung them in the stall, and had no problems.

Per Cornell Univ vets, we weaned at three months, but by all means go longer if you can.

Think about finding a buddy for your foal, someone who can play with her and also put her in her place. Correct horse socialization is crucial for orphans.

[PineTreeFarm]

Cyriz’s Mom may be able to help you. She raised one a few years ago.

[mpsbarnmanager]

Oh, I am so sorry for your loss! I have no experience with orphans, but wanted to say good luck to you and the baby!

[Nootka]

This is from Fairview Horse Center’s website. Look for the link on the lower right corner

http://www.fairviewhorsecenter.com/breeding.html

Ohh see it was posted above. JINGLES~ for you and your foal !!

[pwynnnorman]

[B] YOU PEOPLE ROCK!!!

[/B]OMG, that igloo is just brilliant. My sister is on her way out, but I’m going to have her wait and foal sit for me while I go get one. I’ve seen droplets of milk coming out of the baby’s nose and she gets kinda weird chewing and making funny noises sometimes after nursing. Now I’m terrified of pneumonia. (Something else to look up online.)

I got about 60 ounces out of the mare before we put her down. She went shocky so fast, the vet felt there was little to be done, although he tried with the fluids (he also put a clotting agent into her, but I suspect everything was just too late or the bleed was massive). The foal (“Annie,” not just because she’s a little orphan, but because my grandmother died giving birth to my mother and my mother’s name was Annie) seemed to have drank it very well (but I didn’t watch carefully–my sister dealt with it because I was dealing with the vet and the mare), but she still failed her IgG test, so she got the plasma antibodies stuff yesterday afternoon.

Thank you for all the well-wishes and great advice!

[Laurierace]

I agree that the Igloo is the way to go. Jingles for everyone involved, so sorry for your loss.

[ChocoMare]

Jingles for wee Annie!!

[Home_Again_Farm]

Probably very good that you got the plasma on board. Watch for temp spikes and diarrhea. Your description of the milk coming out her nose would very much make me not do any more bottle feedings. One of my own orphans aspirated milk and developed pneumonia.

Keep us posted. And don’t believe that an orphan will never amount to anything.This was one of mine and she was one sick little orphan before we pulled her through. She is an Elite Mare, was great under saddle and is now a super broodmare who is producing big, tall and talented babies. So keep the faith.
http://homeagainfarm.com/pages/ballerina.html

[cherham]

We hand raised a lovely little filly who sadly lost her mom shortly after birth. We opted for bucket feeding (rather then the bottle method) using GROBERS foal formula.

The round the clock feedings every 4 hours for the first few weeks were tough but we had a lot of help from friends and family. After that we slowLY weaned her down to every 6 hours after she started nibbling some foal food. And we found her an old pony mare to keep her company while out in the paddocks.

Take heart…this little girl has been the best horse we have ever bred! Won her first line competition as a 4 month old and ended her conformation line career as Champion Canadian Sport Horse at the Royal Agricultural Winter Fair in Toronto (beating out all the stallions including her own dad).

Its a long haul but well worth it…best of luck.

[pwynnnorman]

Your mare is exquisite, Home Again!

Oh, I won’t give up on this baby, trust me. She is by my stallion Kevlar (Theodore II) out of a mare bred by Bruce Davidson, who had ridden her dam and granddam to the 3-star level (sired by Innkeeper). As a result, she is 7/8th TB, 1/16th Arabian and 1/16th Shetland. The Brits used to love that touch of Arabian and pony in their eventers (way back before the age of the WB).

BTW, does anyone know the 2010 Welsh/TB colt named “Somethingspecial” by Innkeeper out of a very tightly linebred Downland mare? I happened upon him as I was mourning Sandy (the mare we lost) and looking for her relatives.

@Home Again Farm;6248375

Probably very good that you got the plasma on board. Watch for temp spikes and diarrhea. Your description of the milk coming out her nose would very much make me not do any more bottle feedings. One of my own orphans aspirated milk and developed pneumonia.

Keep us posted. And don’t believe that an orphan will never amount to anything.This was one of mine and she was one sick little orphan before we pulled her through. She is an Elite Mare, was great under saddle and is now a super broodmare who is producing big, tall and talented babies. So keep the faith.
http://homeagainfarm.com/pages/ballerina.html

[Home_Again_Farm]

@pwynnnorman;6248428

Oh, I won’t give up on this baby, trust me. She is by my stallion Kevlar (Theodore II) out of a mare bred by Bruce Davidson, who had ridden her dam and granddam to the 3-star level (sired by Innkeeper). As a result, she is 7/8th TB, 1/16th Arabian and 1/16th Shetland. The Brits used to love that touch of Arabian and pony in their eventers (way back before the age of the WB).

:D:D:D:D:D

[Aven]

Sadly I have had to raise an orphan. Mom died when the foal was 3 days. So luckily you didn’t need to convince your foal that milk replacer wasn’t poison (I sat and cried I was so sure she would never make the switch, but eventually she did)

I found switching to the milk replacer pellets make my life much easier. I don’t remember how old she was when I did that, but I think it was around a month.

[foxhavenfarm]

So sorry for your loss Wynn, and hope the filly continues to thrive.

[Fred]

Wynn, I am so very sorry for your loss of your mare, and am sending you good wishes and jingles for your baby.

I too have (sadly) had to raise 2 ‘bottle babies’. It was a lot of work, but I often feel it was the best thing I ever did.
Both babies turned out to be exceptional individuals. (one went on to be a winning GP jumper).

The first one was completely bottle raised. I used a human baby bottle and enlarged the nipple to make the flow easier. You do have to be very, very careful to prevent aspiration. It is important to not feed the baby laying down and to make sure you hold the bottle so that the foal is keeping his neck slightly elevated.
With that baby I fed him much more frequently than suggested on the milk replacer package - I didn’t believe that was often enough.
So during the initial weeks I fed him every 45 min/hr, and over night every two hours.
Yes, it was exhausting, and sometimes I fell asleep in the stall with him…
We got him a goat as a companion and that worked wonderfully. The goat was a companion and also taught him important things like ‘eating hay’ and grazing…
A suggest something like a goat, or a small elderly pony - who won’t kick him if he attempts to nurse.

The next time, I KNEW it could be done, and that made it easier.
That baby adjusted to the little bucket (and I also suggest the smaller bucket so the foal does not have to put his head so far in).
But even so, because of flies/spoilage etc… I fed frequently throughout the day and night.

I love the idea of the igloo, and think it is great! I didn’t use it because my foals were earlier.

I also used the Grober milk replacer. It was more palatable and less expensive than foal-lac. We didn’t have Buckeye then either.

As soon as other foals were weaned, I put these foals out with other weanlings, and that took care of further socialization.

Good luck - it can be done, and those babies will grow up to be every bit as good.