Update: Breaking to ride an older horse

[Janet]

I just lost one, Spy (at 37- need to update my sig) who was a registered TB. I started him about 10.

Long complicated story, but he lived in a stall, with a private paddock, but was never ridden. When the decision was made to sell, they were all gelded, and turned out together. He was kicked, and had a nasty gash, but it healed.

There was a dispersal sale, and he was sold, to someone whose heart was in the right place, but did not know what he was doing. I got a call from the young lady who was looking after him at the previous farm, to say that, if he was not bought by Friday, he would be going to the Thurmont auction. The owner had him walk, trot, canter on the longe, but could not ride him

I went to look at him, and he was perfectly happy (though lame due to a missing shoe) to w t c on the longe, so I bought him and took him home.

I basically started him from scratch, and he went very well. Never particularly athletic (unlike his sister), but always willing to try. He went up to Novice (2’11"). I was never able to sell him, because he turned out to have hip arthritis, but I leased him out for 8 years (12 to 20 IIRC). Then he came home, and got ridden for about another 4 years, and turned out for 13.

At roughly the same time, my sister bought HIS (8 y0) full sister (looked IDENTICAL, but very different personalities). She was a nightmare to train, but once she figured out it was “your way or the highway”, she actually worked out very well, going Prelim, Prelim 3 day (long format) .

[B_and_B]

I really, really appreciate all the tips, especially on working with older drafts. For those who want to know about ‘all hell’ read on It is long!!
In all honesty, I don’t think he is safe to drive. Or more accurately, he is only safe when he is driven on a daily basis by an experienced, confident driver. Which was the plan when I acquired him a year ago, but isn’t possible due to life changes.

What is ‘all hell’? I actually don’t know, I haven’t let it happen under harness but it is always sitting there. He does Not rear. He kicks. If you know the signals that he gives, it can be nipped in the bud. The sequence is usually: relaxed, attentive ears and a soft eye when being harnessed, stands and steps off willingly, then a moment of ‘oh yeah, actually make me’ and then fine as long as things are varied. If they aren’t varied, i.e. terrain or obstacles or load, you can expect more moments of ‘make me’. The ‘make me’ moments are pinned ears, a threat to kick, and then a kick, and based on the behavior on the ground and on the lunge, that would probably escalate to a double barreled kick.

He drives by voice command, whips are a bad idea with him. They result in an attempt at a kick under harness and on the lunge line result in a snaking neck with pinned ears, and two memorable attempts at a charge (which is where the ‘all hell’ comment came from). He was very head shy when I got him, but with a fair bit of work that has been fixed.

On the plus side! He has an awesome halt and back, a ground eating walk, parade quality trot, and at liberty a balanced canter. He is responsive to the bit with a light and soft mouth, especially for a draft. He enjoys obstacle work but thinks circles to be stupid. He is a gorgeous, gorgeous physical example of the breed, but very hitchy in temperament, not a farm type at all.

On the ground, he wants to be dominant. I’ve taught him to respect my space, since I knew when I got him that he wasn’t safe on the ground. Treats are an absolute no because he immediately gets pushy. When I first got him an attempt to get him to move over would be meet with a kick. I seem to have cured that, but I’m always on watch for it. With other people he will be good for a day or two and then it starts to slide. Oddly, he is perfect for the farrier.

I tracked his breeder down, she said he was an orphan and bottle raised. Had I known that, I probably would have passed on him since that may be the foundation of his issues. I suspect a very late gelding.

The reason to think of working him under saddle is based on the fact that when he is in consistent work he is more polite with everyone, including the other horses. However, time constraints mean that I don’t always have someone to drive with. Though I do have someone to watch out for me if I am riding him. (my elderly dad is physically capable of that, but not of helping with a driving problem) It also seems to me that the kicking issue might be more ‘safely’ ha! solved under saddle.

I’m not willing to sell him. One, my partner adores him, secondly I can keep him as a pasture puff, third: this is what would have to be disclosed: kicker, needs experienced handler, whip shy, not broke/green broke to ride, prone to choke, with a healed severe tear to the right hind DDF tendon… I wouldn’t buy that! (the physical issues occurred after I ended up with him, I did not know about the kicking habit just that it was clear he had no sense of personal space and was pushy, buyer beware!) If he is a pasture puff for his days, that is OK, but it seems a bit of a shame since every time one goes out he is there hoping that you will give him attention.

[findeight]

Or hoping you will feed him. We all tend to anthropomorphism trying to understand and describe the actions of our horses, most of whom are perfectly happy left alone with just horse buddies.

[Foxtrot_s]

The age would not bother me - especially if he had been in work and discipline. The buck might.

I bought a horse sight-unseen - a failed TB due to bucked shins. He was eight years old, I was eight months pregnant.

He had not done anything since track, not even a low caveletti. He was healthy and sound, and soared up the ranks
eventing. I sold him ready for Intermediate and he won his first one three months after I sold him, thanks to all the hunting he did. I figure his late start gave him longevity. A wonderful guy.

He went to two Young Riders, went Advanced and retired sound where the girl’s Dad hacked him around when he was not basking under their lemon trees in California.

[B_and_B]

@findeight

Or hoping you will feed him. We all tend to anthropomorphism trying to understand and describe the actions of our horses, most of whom are perfectly happy left alone with just horse buddies.

Nope, he will actually leave his hay (all he gets aside from a ration balancer) to investigate what you are doing! It actually is a nuisance, he will be right there up close and personal.

[pluvinel]

@B and B

Nope, he will actually leave his hay (all he gets aside from a ration balancer) to investigate what you are doing! It actually is a nuisance, he will be right there up close and personal.

Based on what you have written, you have a very dominant personality…(duh…)

I find those horses need a strong leader who will make it absolutely, positively, no question about it…that whatever evil they are thinking is not to be tolerated.

This is not a mind to “play nice” with. It has to be all professional in the interactions.

It takes conviction and decisiveness from the rider/handler to make sure the horse understand that the requests are non-negotiable.

It might take one VERY MAJOR CTJ MOMENT to get the point across and then he will probably become a convert

[tabula_rashah]

I got one of my best horses at the age of 6- not even halter broke. I started her at 8. I don’t think that putting him under saddle would be a problem

[Frog_Pond]

No one’s mentioned this yet, so I’ll toss it out there in case it’s useful: full skeletal growth in horses isn’t complete until around 6 years old. That’s science. 9 isn’t so late if you think in these terms.

More wishy-washy is the idea that big horses mature more slowly – body, brain and soul – than little ones. Not sure what the current prevailing views are on that but, in my experience, this seems true.

I have an antique Standardbred gelding who came to riding in his teens. He does great! Still can’t canter under saddle but, he’s a senior citizen . . . and he can trot and gait faster than any horse around him can canter. So, he’s off the hook. Your guy, though, could definitely get there, as long as his attitude can be checked. Best of luck with him. He’s lucky to have you.

[cutter99]

I have a horse I bought as a started two year old, but left him sit for 9 years with a handful of occasional rides in a round pen. Two years ago I sent him to a “cowboy” type trainer for 60 days of riding, expecting nothing as I thought I left him sit way too long.

The cowboy starting calling me after about three weeks to come get my horse because he was one of the best started horses he had ever ridden, plus should I decide I didn’t want him, he had multiple buyers lined up for him. I did leave him there for the full 60 days, and he is an incredible trail horse.

Now, did I get lucky? I believe so, plus he was started through a university breeding/ training/ marketing program, so he had an incredible start. Is he naturally good minded? Yes, and along with being good minded he has no bolt or spook in him. Would I do the same again with another horse? Probably not, but it cannot hurt to try your horse and see what you’ve got!

[Cardboardoux]

I put ny gelding under saddle when he was 8. No problem.

[2DogsFarm]

From what you added in your lengthy post, the “all hell” does sound like a deal breaker for an occasional Driver.

I’m assuming you tried a kicking strap, but if he’s that determined, he could probably get to rocking & rolling enough to tip your cart/carriage even if it did prevent him getting his butt up enough to kick back & reach the dash.

As to the whip issue, that could very well transfer to U/S as whip = leg for a Driving horse.
Safer to be on his back if he reacts the same way, I guess. Depends on how much he escalates his objection.

Good Luck & please report back here to let us know if your Big Guy now rides :encouragement:

[B_and_B]

@2DogsFarm

From what you added in your lengthy post, the “all hell” does sound like a deal breaker for an occasional Driver.

I’m assuming you tried a kicking strap, but if he’s that determined, he could probably get to rocking & rolling enough to tip your cart/carriage even if it did prevent him getting his butt up enough to kick back & reach the dash.

I think the kicking strap actually would work, since it doesn’t take much aside from a very, very quick reaction to prevent the escalation in harness. I think the lunge line issue is somewhat different. Unfortunately, his job was to be part of a low impact logging team. And unfortunately, that generally means no shafts. It also means the driver is routinely working near or behind the horse. So no good way to make the kicking strap work. Unless I am missing something stupidly obvious, which is always possible!
I’m hoping that if I can put him into really consistent work U/S he will be more confident in me as the leader. That may not solve the kicking problem, but it may make his other issues less. I’ve seen flashes of a very smart, willing worker. But at some point, if I am working with him, there will be as another poster mentioned a CTJ moment. Given the kicking as the apparent ‘go to’ on top seems safer than behind!
I’m very glad to know that even 10, which he might be, isn’t totally insane.
All of this is Not helped by the fact that he spent almost all of last year on pasture rest… though the bad attitude was apparent from before that.

[enjoytheride]

Yikes. There’s no way I’d drive a horse that kicked like that. Scary!

[Bluey]

@enjoytheride

Yikes. There’s no way I’d drive a horse that kicked like that. Scary!

Life is too short to have horses of questionable character around.
Not only for our own safety but that of others.

“When a horse shows you who he is, believe him”.

[B_and_B]

Which is why I’m looking for a different job for him. There are too many easy ways to die with horses, logging, and farming. I don’t need to add to it. But I wouldn’t mind a riding horse on the place rather than a bored draft!

[B_and_B]

Update in first post! There is progress!