I’m having trouble finding replacements for my favorite saddles lost in a fire last year. I have always had a 31.5 cm Stubben Lowengrin, but have not located the perfect one. (They are no longer produced.) Daughter came across a 32 cm Lowengrin in perfect condition for an excellent price, in Tennessee (I’m in Ok. so no chance to try it.) I have 6 assorted horses…how different is .5 cm?? Thanks.
There is exactly one-half of a centimeter difference. 
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Ok, a serious answer by someone who has both sizes and who knows how rare and attractive a perfect-conditon Loewengrin would be:
I’d buy it. IME, the different will be minimal, especially if the saddle doesn’t have half panels, aka has panels where the padding extends down the front edge of the flap, ahead of the rider’s knee. If the saddle has half panels, I think the width of the tree has a more profound effect than if the panels extend lower. Also, if the horse has a Stubben-shaped back (and Stubben really knows what horses are shaped like), I don’t think the half cm makes a big difference. I wouldn’t be above buying a 32 cm, knowing it was a touch wide for my horse and then adding a custom-folded towel up by the withers to make it fit.
If you want a reason not to buy it, can you evaluate the fit of another 31.5 cm on your horse? Does that tree seem legitimately too wide?
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Really??
Thank you for your very useful post!! I have TB’s, and ISH’s. Surely it will fit somebody!!! I bought I first Loengrin in 1968…and bought new ones over the years, but still had my original!! Lost the ALL in a fire!!! No horses lost though!! My only “questionable” horse is a 17 hand TB who needs a half pad with most saddles. I think I’ll get it!!! Where exactly do you find/take the tree measurement on an unmarked saddle?? Just wondering.
I have a couple Stubbens and found the new short-pointed trees run substantially wider than the older ones. I have 2 31cms and one fits my round, wide but short-coupled TB well (Scandica) and the other (Genesis Special) has the short points and is too wide…so much so it crawls up his withers. Bummer because I love the feel of the Genesis Special. I have been keeping it hoping it will fit my baby in a year or two. I couldn’t fix it with any of my many half pads because I always ended up sitting on the shoulders.
but…this to say it might depend on which Stubben you have how wide it is in practice.
Is this a CC or some kind of jumping saddle? Or a dressage saddle? I know the Stubben dressage saddles, only. I will suggest that you consider a couple of things.
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I think I was told that Stubben stopped making 31.5 cm trees in the 1990s. Oh, and the Lohengrin, of course, is extinct. Either way, you know that the flocking might need some attention.
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According to an old-time Stubben rep, their tree makes flocking these saddles a bit non-standard. If you want more details on this, let me know and I’ll PM you her name. If I ever have one of my Stubbens reflocked, I’ll send it to Stubben, NA. I believe they send out their work to Kate Athanas (Dutchess Saddle) in Port Jervis, NY.
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IME, these older saddles can have flocking that’s full and hard or soft and reasonable. Among my saddles that I’m sure are that old, the one that had been barely used and had been in the Saddle Cryo-Freeze such that it looks virgin and much softer flocking. That, plus the horse-friendly tree shape makes it fit horses pretty well.
I think the cm measurements relates to the horizontal width between the tree points at the bottom. Insofar as those are buried inside the flocking, I don’t think it’s an easy measurement to get… especially if your tolerances are as tight as 0.5 cm. I suppose if I were going to do this, I’d feel down for the bottom of the point of the tree on the inside of the sweatflap. Then, at that point, I’d measure across and use the pencil roll on that sweatflap as my mark. After all, the point of the tree is a thin tab of metal. The tree is superficial to the panels, of course, so that pencil roll probably represents the plane that the points of the tree are on… but I’ll bet you can’t get a measurement on the outside of the saddle that tells you the difference between a 31.5 and 32 cm tree fits. And, again, I think the flocking in the panels plus their shape will make more of a difference in that measurement than will the 0.5 cm in the tree.
I hope this helps. If you buy it, will you send me a picture? A barely used Lohengrin is a very pretty saddle, IMO.
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Indeed, the new trees do fit differently and the Genesis Special is very, very different in the seat in comparison to the Tristan Special.
That said, fordtraktor, my impression of this is that the effects of the new tree (short points and, IMO, very banana-shaped) are magnified by those little half-panels the Specials have. There’s just not any flocking lower down behind the horse’s upper arm to keep the saddle off the withers. Either those half pads fit right in the hollows/area behind the withers or you are SOL.
That’s such a bummer if you don’t have the right shaped horse because those ultra-close contact saddles are just about incomparable from the rider’s point of view. You really, really can’t find another Prix des Nations-style dressage saddle out there. It makes me want to turn down any horse with an unorthodox-ly shaped back.
Oh, and to answer your last question, OP. The only place tree size is marked on a Stubben is on the off-side billet guard. The old ones, of course, have a number stamped in a horizontal line below the saddle’s serial number. It will range between 27 (rarely) and 32.
The newer ones have the serial number going along the back edge of that same billet cover and the tree widths are represented by letters.
If someone didn’t show me that stamped off billet, I wouldn’t believe them when they told me the tree’s size. It can be hard to tell just by looking at them.
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It is a bummer. The Genesis Special is the dressage version of my Tad Coffin and the Biomex is great for my really bad back. I just wish it fit the horse I ride the most! It is fine on my other TB who has a lot more in the way of withers and is equally round.
i can pad the Tad Coffin to fit beautifully but not the Stubben. Maybe I need to look for a TC dressage saddle but they are hard to find.
My daughter found it in a tack shop in Tenn. (gaited horse country) and said it was identical to the ones I had…kind of a “puke” orangey/yellow, but a “to die for saddle!!” In all these years I’ve never had a horse it didn’t fit and although the Stubbens are not a “cushy” saddle by some standards…I always felt comfortable and secure!! The seat style is VSS jumping. I would be embarrassed to post how cheap it is!!! Worth a shot I’m sure!! Thanks for the info.
Just wanted to tell you all about my saddle!!! It has apparently living in an EXCELLENT environment…tack friendly!! The saddle looks like it was just produced!! The leather is in excellent condition…a tiny bit dry, but still supple. The girth billets are hardly indented from a girth and there is no sign of wear or damage!! It looks brand new!! The “walking horse” tack shop owner said it didn’t suit his clients and offered it to me for $200!!! There is a “Tack God” out there!! No time to try it out right now…temps pushing 100 and we have two weeks to move out of our horse farm in Ok. and get to our “not yet built” farm in Texas!! LOTS to do before I sleep…but thought some of you Stubben people would appreciate the update!!
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OP, that’s wonderful! That’s the kind of saddle that I describe as having been preserved in the Cryo-Freeze. It’s just so lucky when we happen upon one. I hope it fits.
Thanks. I’ve got 6+ riding horses…so surely it will fit several. It is the same saddle I’ve used for years and never had a problem!! Shopping in “Non-H/J” regions is really a bargain!! I bought a brand new, “new” style Stubben Siegfried…all smooth leather…no suede knee rolls…several years ago in a western saddle shop for $300!! They now list for $4,000!!!
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Would love to see a pic.
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