Isn’t that what makes it so tough?? My guy looks SO good on the lunge. It makes me want to pull my hair out - every time I lunge him I’m like but what if I could get him to move like this under saddle??? ugh.
His paddock is small, which is what has me worried. I may be able to eventually get him put out with a group, but our group paddocks are at capacity right now so another horse would have to leave or be booted out.
Mine did. Diagnosis to retired from riding in six months, and euthanized six months after that. While the euthanasia decision was primarily based on the risk of him falling in the winter and how miserable he was when he got cold, there was noticeable degeneration over the last few months.
Jec Ballou has a new book of exercise routines that can be done in hand as well as mounted. Maybe that would give you something to do that will also help your horse stay strong.
How long is the treatment with this? The description says put it on and go about your business for hours… so is it meant to be on for hours? That would be a big downside for those of us who board. The basic set is definitely more affordable than a Bemer set though.
I used the laser for 20-30 minutes before or after I rode. That seemed to be enough to make a difference.
Ok, soooo looking for more advice, since I’ve read so many different things and now my head is spinning from everything.
Gabapentin didn’t seem to make a difference for him. I also had my trainer ride him for the first time in years to see how they thought he felt. Basically, I have noticed tripping in the front with him, mostly at the walk but occasionally at the trot. I’ve been riding him not in any sort of collection because of his neck. I asked my trainer to try to collect him up a bit and see how he feels, and while they could get him to collect, he was really hard in the contact and just didn’t seem happy still. So no change there. Trainer did note that they did not really notice tripping in the front at all, but his hind end slipped once (he does have fusing hocks. Stifles look fine on rads but I do lots of stifle strengthening exercises anyways).
My vet and trainer both share the same concern as me - that once he stops being ridden/moving around a lot (he doesn’t move much in his paddock), he’s going to begin falling apart. I would like to reiterate though, since I know people will say to retire him - that is not off the table at all at this point and I am still heavily leaning towards retiring him. This is just an inquiry for if I do decide to try anything else at this point.
Soooooo I could try shockwave, or maybe Osphos? I have seen others saying shockwave has helped, but it would be multiple sessions and the price would add up quick. It seems like Osphos would be more of a one-and-done situation until he needs it again a while down the road. I have never done either of these treatments before so am not very familiar with them. It seems like shockwave may be better for his neck, but I am wondering if the Osphos could also help his hocks (hocks have been injected this spring).
Going to chat with my vet too of course, but please lmk your thoughts!
Anecdotally, OSPHOS did essentially nothing for mine.
You can keep throwing money at him, which is totally an option! See what works or not. But I would only do that if the money is something you can set on fire no problem - he’s got a LOT of compounding issues, and I don’t think you’ll find a one-and-done solution. A balancing act of bandaids may eke out a bit longer with him, or maybe you’ll find the perfect combo! But IME the “perfect combo” rarely exists once they’re this far down the road, or it only lasts six months or so. If you can keep doing stuff with these kinds of prices every six months or so, kinda throwing things at the wall, go for it! But I think you’re looking at ongoing maintenance with any of the remaining therapy options available to you.
The tripping and falling out behind is a pretty big red flag for all-over body pain, IMO. Not JUST neuro impingement - when everything hurts, it only takes a little twinge or wrong step for buckle everything above it because it’s not just That Joint.
Yeah, I agree with you. I mostly ignored the occasional stumble in the front when I was trying to keep him competing years ago, since it was only at the walk and he is typically very behind the leg at the walk especially so we thought he was maybe dragging a toe being lazy. But now that and the slip behind when I ask for collection is just an awful feeling all around.
My trainer did say that when they see me riding him at a trot and canter around the ring without any collection, he looks happy as a clam. He’s moving a little on the forehand and he’s certainly a bit crooked and not using his back as well as he could so it’s obviously not ideal, but his hind end doesn’t slip when he goes around like that nor does he trip at the trot or canter, and he’s got his ears pricked. When I take him out in the field he gets excited and will eagerly canter off.
So I have to do a lot of thinking about it-but I’m kind of thinking of not doing any further treatment aside from his routine hock injections, but not fully retiring him either. Maybe get on a few times a week and just let him trot and canter around a bit without asking for any collection, just to keep him moving since he’s happy to do that. My trainer will never explicitly tell me what to do since it’s a personal decision (which I appreciate), but they did mention that maybe that’s best for him right now. I would just have to pay very close attention to that trip-I certainly don’t feel unsafe when he does it at the walk or trot (it’s basically a light knee buckling and he catches himself immediately so it’s a mild disruption of rhythm at best), but currently the trot tripping is maybe once every like 25 rides? So if that were to increase in consistency at all it would be an immediate retirement. Ugh, I don’t know.
Have you already injected the neck?
I’ve injected it twice - once in 2020 when we first found the issue, and that did seem to help. The vet that did the injections (a very highly regarded vet) told me I would most likely not need to inject again, so I didn’t. Then in 2022 (I think?) he came down with headshakers and while working through diagnosing that, we injected the neck again in case that was the issue. It did not fix the issue as it was headshakers and not his neck afterall, but once I put him on magnesium that resolved the headshakers completely. I didn’t notice any sort of improvement in his neck once the headshaking cleared up and he was back to regular work, so I haven’t injected it since. I have heard that for a lot of horses the injections work great once, and then any injections afterwards don’t really make much of a difference.
Maybe it would be worth trying that again though? Maybe last time the headshakers issue kind of overshadowed whether the injections actually helped his neck or not?
It really depends on your budget and what else has been tried. Steroid injections into the neck have been helpful for my c-spine horse, but every horse is different WRT their neck OA and symptoms.
Osphos is very expensive and comes with colic and kidney failure risks. I don’t hear of it being used often specifically for c-spine arthritis pain. It’s better for non-neck pain.
It does get to a point where injections don’t help anymore. If gaba didn’t help, Osphos might not either.
If this horse is out 24/7, he might maintain condition fine without the ridden work component. But I agree if he’s kept in a stall w/o work he’d probably deteriorate.
yeah, he is out about 8 hours a day, but stalled at night. His paddock is decently sized but he isn’t the type to move around a lot anyways-he’ll occasionally get excited and get to running and bucking (lol), but most of the time he just stands around grazing a bit, or laying in the sun. I could certainly look for a barn with 24/7 turnout (and probably would) if I fully retired him, but I’m not even sure that would make enough of a difference since he’s just not the type to move around much anyways.
How many times have you injected your c-spine horse?
It’s a decent plan, and probably what I would do if not choosing retirement.
But that trip is concerning. It only takes ONE misstep to send you both down - it happened twice with my guy (once with me, once with another rider). Trips like that can be deadly. My horse didn’t trip much at all, really we thought it was just because his feet were due - so about once a month, every 25ish rides? Turns out it wasn’t the feet…
It’s a rock and a hard place. You want to package them up to get weight off the front and help prevent the tripping, but that sets the rest of their body off and they can’t maintain it. He’s not falling out behind when he’s going on the forehand, because he’s dumping weight away from that hind end pain. But he also hurts in front (just less maybe), or he doesn’t always know where his feet are, or he misses an info packet and buckles, and that’s particularly dangerous in front when they’re not sitting on the hind end.
IIWM obviously I’d retire and move him to a field where he can move around. That’s what I did - moved barns and everything. But if not, I’d be setting a firm budget for extra treatment and really thinking hard about the safety of ridden work. Hacking at the walk is likely safest from a momentum standpoint…
this has been a real kicker for me actually - because if he liked hacking that would be such an easy decision! we have plenty of trails at my barn and most of them have really solid reliable footing so I could just hack him every ride instead, but for some reason he just hates it.
I’m not even sure that would make enough of a difference since he’s just not the type to move around much anyways.
It is not so much the mileage he covers that would be beneficial, it is the reduction of inflammation caused by confined or limited/no movement, which is compounding in a horse that has multiple physical complaints (particularly aged/geriatrics). You[g] can generally tell a stalled horse from a 24/7 turnout (actual turnout, not a dry lot) one by their musculature. Generally speaking, it’s healthier and more horse-friendly to have them out. I am not anti-stall, just pointing out some things benefit horses better.
How many times have you injected your c-spine horse?
At least five times. I’d have to double check. I did yearly from 2016-2019, and now it is ‘as needed’ based on how he performs a series of neck stretches. His last injection was fall of 2023. He does not have the same symptoms as your horse. It has been a balancing and triaging act getting all components happy.
maybe it would be worth it to just try injecting one more time then, and if that doesn’t work…then no more treatments and start deciding on semi vs full retirement.
That is, if you think the neck is the root of these issues.
Occam’s razor it is, but … is it always the same knee buckling…? And his hooves are in good shape? No high/lo hoof or bad trims? No bumps around the fetlock?
My vet charges $230 for neck injection[s]. In today’s economy that’s a lot cheaper than some other modalities.
Is he on MSM? It’s dirt cheap and helps a little. It’s not going to solve all the problems but it helps with creaky old horses.
Holy moly?? $230 for neck injections??? I think his last round of injections were way, way more than that. Like, $800 ish I want to say.
He’s not on MSM - I can certainly put him on it, worth a try since as you said it’s cheap. I haven’t bothered because I’ve heard feed-through joint supplements don’t do anything.
I actually was going to have his knee looked at because most of the time it’s his left knee. But then right before his last vet appt the other knee buckled. Then my vet said most of the time you would see some sort of swelling around the knee joint and he flexed well, so we discarded that school of thought. No bumps around the fetlock.
As for feet, his right front is 1 degree lower than his left front and it’s corrected with a little wedge pad. He’s got the mildest of mild navicular in that foot as well, which we only discovered when he went lame in that foot a couple of years ago. He got coffin injections at the time, and has been foot sound ever since. I brought that up with my vet too (and still think that may be worth looking into) but my vet who is normally pretty (constructively) critical of farrier work said his feet look to be done really well. That certainly doesn’t mean there’s nothing going on in there though.
He does have a reluctance to go downhill which could be a hoof problem - but also could be a neck problem.
Or a stifle problem. Or a hock problem. Or a back problem!
What really stinks about these types of issues is how they all are connected AND present with similar symptoms… and each horse seems to respond differently to treatment.
I’m sending you jingles for clarity and improvement!
Exactly! It’s not really a helpful piece of info for diagnostic purposes, other than “eh something’s definitely not right” which…duh. haha.
He’s just a big bummer in general, because he is my absolute favorite sassy little creature and he jumps so nicely - I guarantee you if I got on him today and pointed him at a 3ft oxer his form over the fence would be just as good as it was years ago (don’t worry I am not going to do that!) and he’s loved dearly at the barn despite being quite the character. With my previous horses I never struggled this much to come to a decision on how to proceed.
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