UPDATE: New horse feed on Chewy- Hoveler from Germany & Keyflow from the U.K

[Scribbler]

@JB

@FromTheGalaxy

So they’re using actual beets instead of a sugar beet byproduct. That makes more sense. I haven’t seen or heard much about feeding beets to horses.

It’s much more a UK thing (not sure if Europe in general), than a US thing. I don’t know if beets are easier to grow there than here? Or maybe we eat a lot more beets than they do so there isn’t a lot left over LOL

Our North American beet pulp is a byproduct of the sugar beet industry, which is why it’s relatively cheap. The sugar is extracted and the pulp is left with only a faint sweetness. That’s why beet pulp is quite low in sugar/carbs. Sugar beets are large and yellowish.

Table beets are one of the high glycemic index root vegetables so if you used whole beets in feed it would be sweeter and also significantly higher in carbs. Table beets are typically red, but when I was buying veg boxes from a CSA farm, they had yellow beets. They liked fun colors, yellow tomatoes and blue potatoes.

Feeding root vegetables to livestock in winter is definitely a European thing, like mangelwurzels. I just went and Googled them, and they are also a beet. I thought they were a turnip like rutabaga which is also used as a feed crop.

Anyhow if you are putting human food in your feed products it will be more expensive than using a byproduct.

For me, the benefit of beet pulp and alfalfa cube mash is as a very palatable, relatively low carb, affordable carrier for VMS, salt, flax seed and extra water. Switching up to a pricier whole table beet product would defeat the purpose.

[Simkie]

@Scribbler

Table beets are one of the high glycemic index root vegetables so if you used whole beets in feed it would be sweeter and also significantly higher in carbs.

That’s what I assumed, too, but the Pink Mash is supposedly suuuuper low NSC per their site:

Less than 2% sugar
Less than 2% starch

Keyflow Pink Mash®

[JB]

@Scribbler

Table beets are one of the high glycemic index root vegetables so if you used whole beets in feed it would be sweeter and also significantly higher in carbs.

That may be, when eating them whole, but:
https://www.feedtables.com/content/beet-pulp-dried

1% starch, 7.8% sugars

And then remember also, that the beetroot is only part of the Pink Mash

[Scribbler]

Interesting. I’m going to say that means it’s more soy hulls with enough beet to color it.

Yeah soy hulls are the first ingredient. A little beer goes a long way to make things pink.

We have a standard feed called FibreMax that is soy hulls and beet pulp.

[cayuse]

I just tried the Keyflow feeds and my pony refused them. He ate the Sensi-Care for a week then noped out. Pink Mash and the feed for Senior horses he wouldn’t even touch. I wasn’t a fan of the texture of Sensi Care, some of the pellets and pressed flattened bits were very hard ( like rock hard).

[cutter99]

@Scribbler

Hard to imagine it being cost effective to import horse feed from Europe to North America where we grow millions of acres of grain, but maybe the very strong US dollar makes it affordable.

Where I am in Canada in a port city, all our feeds are milled locally out of grain already being shipped here by train from the prairies. We don’t even import from Eastern Canada or the USA, let alone Europe.

My bet would be it is being “toll milled” here in the U.S. by another feed manufacturer.

One thing that has always bothered me about foreign feed companies attempting to sell in the U.S. market is that their formulations are their formulations- feeds geared towards the ingredients available in Europe, as well as European husbandry practices.

There are differences between the U.S. and Europe than could very well affect horse health and quality of life.

[JB]

@cutter99

There are differences between the U.S. and Europe than could very well affect horse health and quality of life.

I don’t think this is a concern. An ingredient is safe for a horse to eat, or it’s not, and it doesn’t matter if the horse lives in the US or overseas.

There’s an enormous range of US-made feeds, and all of them are perfectly suitable for a subset of the horse population, and all of them are very UNsuitable for a subset

[cutter99]

Feed companies in the U.S. regionalize formulations depending on location of manufacturing.

[JB]

Not all of them. TC’s formulas aren’t regional. Some of Purina’s are, some aren’t - Strategy has at least 2 different formulations, Enrich doesn’t, for example. Some companies are only made for and sold in pretty specific regions - LMF, Poulin, Seminole for example. Tribute doesn’t regionalize, but anyone can buy them from Chewy, same with many Buckeye products, even though I think Buckeye does tailor a bit to what’s common in their area.

The only thing that changes for some of these companies like TC who don’t have different regional formulas, is that they get their ingredients more locally to the mill to keep costs down (in most cases, can’t speak for all). But they still have to fit the nutritional profile criteria set for all the suppliers of those ingredients. Oats provided for TC milled in NC aren’t going to be so different from those provided for TC milled in AK (don’t know if they have a mill there, you get the point) as to make a different enough product.

People in the South often truck in hay from the North, so should they feed something like Seminole which is done “for the South”, or Poulin which is created for the NE but not available in the South?

Europe isn’t so utterly different from the US that none of their feeds are suitable for US horses

[cutter99]

Just curious @JB. How many different feed companies have you worked for? Is your degree in Animal Science or Equine Nutrition? Or perhaps Agronomy?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@JB

People in the South often truck in hay from the North, so should they feed something like Seminole which is done “for the South”, or Poulin which is created for the NE but not available in the South?

And… what if someone is feeding alfalfa that came in on a semi from our west? Lots of people do that too.

[cutter99]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@JB

People in the South often truck in hay from the North, so should they feed something like Seminole which is done “for the South”, or Poulin which is created for the NE but not available in the South?

And… what if someone is feeding alfalfa that came in on a semi from our west? Lots of people do that too.

That would be just one of the reasons testing your hay is recommended.

[Real_Rush]

@JB

People in the South often truck in hay from the North, so should they feed something like Seminole which is done “for the South”, or Poulin which is created for the NE but not available in the South?

I’m currently in metro Atlanta, and my local feed store literally carries about a dozen different types of hay. There’s the local fescue and Bermuda, but then they also carry mid-Western and Northern timothy, T/A mix, orchard and orchard/alfalfa mix and straight alfalfa. Then they also get in timothy from out west (like, as far west as Nevada and Colorado, etc), as well as at least one kind of alfalfa, some of which are large, 3-string bales. They also within the past year started carrying perennial peanut hay, so they truly have something for everyone.

For feed, they carry everything from Seminole and Triple Crown, to Buckeye, Tribute, Cavalor, Hallway, Purina and even a couple types of Crypto Aero. (I have to say, I am both lucky and spoiled to have such a well-stocked feed store close by. I’m moving out of state soon, and will sorely miss it.)

[JB]

@cutter99

Just curious @JB. How many different feed companies have you worked for? Is your degree in Animal Science or Equine Nutrition? Or perhaps Agronomy?

Self-educated, via those who do have those degrees, and the researchers who publish studies

But I also study feeds themselves - the ingredients (when available), the GAs, all of it, and have a very good working understanding of nutrition and what bags bring to the table

@cutter99

That would be just one of the reasons testing your hay is recommended.

100% it’s ideal, but usually it’s not. Not all barns get enough hay to last more than a month. Not all people have room to store more than a couple of weeks, let alone a few months. Even if they buy from the same hay broker every 2 weeks, that hay broker may be like Real_Rush described - the hay’s coming from all over the place

Testing IS ideal and I’ll always recommend it when it’s feasible.

[cutter99]

@cutter99

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@JB

People in the South often truck in hay from the North, so should they feed something like Seminole which is done “for the South”, or Poulin which is created for the NE but not available in the South?

And… what if someone is feeding alfalfa that came in on a semi from our west? Lots of people do that too.

That would be just one of the reasons testing your hay is recommended.

@JB

@cutter99

Just curious @JB. How many different feed companies have you worked for? Is your degree in Animal Science or Equine Nutrition? Or perhaps Agronomy?

Self-educated, via those who do have those degrees, and the researchers who publish studies

But I also study feeds themselves - the ingredients (when available), the GAs, all of it, and have a very good working understanding of nutrition and what bags bring to the table

@cutter99

That would be just one of the reasons testing your hay is recommended.

100% it’s ideal, but usually it’s not. Not all barns get enough hay to last more than a month. Not all people have room to store more than a couple of weeks, let alone a few months. Even if they buy from the same hay broker every 2 weeks, that hay broker may be like Real_Rush described - the hay’s coming from all over the place

Testing IS ideal and I’ll always recommend it when it’s feasible.

@JB, The reason I recommended hay testing is VHM said “a semi from the west”. Most people do not go through a semi in 2 weeks. Some may, but not most.

So no degrees in Animal Science, Equine Nutrition or Agronomy? No “formal” training?

I will take the leap and assume since you did not answer my question about what feed manufacturers you have worked for, that you have worked for none.

That would explain why some of the “information” you post as fact, is in fact, incorrect.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@cutter99

@JB, The reason I recommended hay testing is VHM said “a semi from the west”. Most people do not go through a semi in 2 weeks. Some may, but not most.

Many feed stores in my area get in hay on a semi, and then sell it by the bale to people who only buy 5-10 bales at a time. Many people in my area have smaller personal farms with one or two horses, and a mini or two. Plus decent pasture. You just don’t consume large quantities of hay in that situation.

Testing when you are buying small quantities isn’t really practical.

Many people in these situations feed ration balancers in addition to hay. And sometimes senior or high performance feeds for harder keepers or high performance athletes who are in strenuous work. It might not be a perfect way to feed, but it seems to do a decent job of meeting the needs of their horses. At least… that’s my anecdotal experience/ observations.

[JB]

@cutter99

The reason I recommended hay testing is VHM said “a semi from the west”. Most people do not go through a semi in 2 weeks. Some may, but not most.

And as I stated, hay testing IS ideal and I ALWAYS recommend it when it’s feasible. Reality is it’s often not feasible.

VHM’s comment about the semi was not about how long the hay lasts or whether testing it is feasible. It’s about MY comment about people not always feeding hay that’s local to them, which points to your comment about people feeding feeds formulated for their region.

@cutter99

So no degrees in Animal Science, Equine Nutrition or Agronomy? No “formal” training?

I will take the leap and assume since you did not answer my question about what feed manufacturers you have worked for, that you have worked for none.

Never claimed to have formal training. My apologies for not answering the other part but no, have not worked for any feed company. I have no idea how that’s relevant. I know of at least 5 Tribute feed reps who give the WORST advice to people, including adding 3lb of their ration balancer on top of 6-8lb of a regular feed

Working for a feed company doesn’t (shouldn’t) imply knowledge, and not working for one shouldn’t imply lack of knowledge. I know plenty of people with PhDs and MScs in this area who never worked for a feed company

@cutter99

That would explain why some of the “information” you post as fact, is in fact, incorrect.

Please tell me what’s incorrect, I’m always willing to admit when I’m wrong. Sometimes I incorrectly state something because I typed mg instead of gm, or left of a “is” or “is not”, and sometimes it’s mis-remembering info from a study I should have verified before posting.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@JB

VHM’s comment about the semi was not about how long the hay lasts or whether testing it is feasible. It’s about MY comment about people not always feeding hay that’s local to them, which points to your comment about people feeding feeds formulated for their region.

Exactly.

This is especially true when it comes to alfalfa, in my experience.

But, even in Virginia where we have abundant high quality grass hay, sometimes during drought years, feed stores are selling Timothy or grass hay by the bale that comes from a totally different region. Because… it’s better quality than our local hay at that time.

[JB]

There are feed stores in neighboring towns who often have NY Timothy for sale since it doesn’t grow (well) here. Honestly, there are LOTS of places who truck in hay from areas where hay is easy to grow, with 3-4 cuttings a year.

[Ghazzu]

@Montanas_Girl

And some beet pulp brands (including the vendor my company uses for re-sale products) now come in 30 lb. bags.

I noticed that last year when, after The Great Beetpulp Shortage, it returned at the same price/bag as before, but 10 pounds lighter.