I’ve never fed Tribute. But… I will say that advice provided from 2 different brand reps regarding what I should be feeding my easy keepers directly conflicted with my vet’s advice, and could have caused founder.
I’m pretty cynical about feed reps who recommend overfeeding …
Here’s another thing to keep in mind about these niche products with exotic (for the U.S. market) ingredients, even if they are manufactured here.
How fresh is that feed when it gets to the customer? How fresh are the raw ingredients at the time the feed is made?
I will use the company I work for as an example. We are relatively small and regional, but we operate four feed mills in a single state. Each of those four mills goes through several truckloads of wheat middlings per day. The smallest batch size we will run of any feed is 3 tons. This is to ensure, as best we can, uniform mixing of the raw ingredients. We have established guidelines for product “shelf life” that vary based on the type of feed (pellet vs textured vs milk replacer, etc.) and time of year. If we aren’t selling enough of a product to be moving it out of the mills - and, by extension, the stores - in a timely manner, we discontinue that product. We go through “micro” ingredients like vitamins very quickly at these volumes, so they aren’t generally sitting around for months losing potency before they are added to a feed.
Can the same things be said about these products? I genuinely do not know, but I have my suspicions. I have personally spoken to two other people in the feed industry who work for companies other than mine that were approached by Chewy about carrying their brand and declined because Chewy wanted them to guarantee a 6-month shelf life on all their products.
This discussion did not have one mention of sales reps here up until now, particularly Tribute, who is manufactured and sold by Kalmbach.
But, nice attempt to deflect @JB.
Since you have never worked for a feed manufacturer, you would not have knowledge of logistics, feed and grain merchandising, formulations and agronomy involving ingredients. That puts you right up there with Jim the Feed Guy, which is no compliment!
Making blankets statements, then throwing in a company like Poulin, who is only regional, is not correct.
One of the best qualities a person can process is admitting that they do not know what they do not know.
I hope those that read here understand when they take your advice that they are taking advice from someone with no formal training or degrees, who is not a DVM or VMD, or has any actual experience working in the nutrition, feed or supplement industry.
Many, if not most, who do work in those segments of the equine industry do have degrees, advanced degrees, and yes, even doctorates.
Are there some industry employees who give advice that is out and out wrong? You betcha, just like any other industry!
The moral of the story- don’t just take advice blindly on the internet, even if it is touted by a so called expert or someone who thinks they have knowledge in a complex industry in which they have no real experience!
We were talking to the owner of a pet store nearby, and he mentioned packing up (dog & cat) food he didn’t/couldn’t move in his store and selling it by the pallet load to Chewy’s.
I think about that sometimes when I order from them. If they’re not getting all their stock directly from the manufacturer, just where all is it coming from and how has it been handled.
I wonder if they’re getting these grains directly from Europe, or if there’s a middleman, or multiple middlemen, and how that impacts what you’re describing.
Not that Chewy’s isn’t a great option for a lot of people and a lot of things, and they’re always so helpful when orders aren’t as expected. But the supply line is not necessarily apparent!
Well all I can add is that JBs advice has always been in line with what l learned as an ammie owner on a Horse Nutrition Coursera, and in the accompanying recommended book. And this has not always been true of vets or feed reps in my experience. Just like doctors are not nutritionists.
At the level of advice JB is giving, you don’t need advanced degrees. JB appears to have broad knowledge of the brands in the USA (none of which I can get in Canada) and the patience to crunch numbers on the different products.
I’m in a region in Canada with only three mills, all local, and a handful of VMS and RB. I have a pretty good overview of what’s available and how to get maximum nutrition at the most economic cost and calories for my easy keeper mare. And indeed for myself 
I’d wager a guess that, if the feed store buying a semi-load was interested, a hay analysis could be provided for the load. This could then be shared with interested buyers of smaller quantities.
However, I suspect that few customers express any interest in it, so why bother?
Going back to fodder beet vs. sugar beet pulp, I was interested in the sugar content of the former–did a little digging and found this.
So can you explain what, exactly, JB stated that was incorrect? What are your qualifications, since you seem so intent on dismissing hers? And who do you work for, since clearly you have a stake in a feed company?
This was a really good post and very informative. Makes total sense from a supply chain perspective.
Beet pulp after the sugar is extracted has I think just under 20 per cent sugars. I would expect raw whole beets, as here, to be much higher as they actually taste sweet (earthy but sweet) and are high in the glycemic index and not recommended for diabetics. However if the pink mash is mainly soy hulls with some beet juice for color they could keep the sugar low
One Christmas back in our youthful juicing days my sister and I got the idea to decorate gingerbread cookies with icing sugar glaze colored with vegetable juice instead of commercial food coloring. This was icing sugar plus water plus coloring agent. We juiced beets, spinach, carrots maybe other things to make definitely colored icing that had only a faint earthy flavor if you knew to look for it.
A little beet juice goes a long way.
Not a deflection at all. You’re the one who brought up the idea that somehow working for a feed company gave credibility, and I gave you a real world example of how that’s not inherently true.
Why in the world do I have to know the logistics of ordering and storing and testing ingredients, to know that they’re done, to know that ingredients are ingredients, GA is GA? I DO NOT HAVE TO KNOW how much wheat middlings are in 1lb of feed, that’s irrelevant to knowing how to read the GA
At least I know what is, and isn’t in the AAFCO requirements, what is and isn’t required to be on a label.
YOU are the one who brought in regional formulations, remember?
You have yet to show me where I was incorrect, and I’ve also told you I’m willing to admit whatever I said wrong. So…?
Having read more research, more text books on said research, more PhD-published articles on the topics, than is taught in the majority of vet schools, I can promise you I know a bit more than most DVMs about some of this. Nice try though. When vets wig out about how 30% protein is way too much for any adult horse who only ever needs 10% protein, not understanding in the SLIGHTEST that nutrient requirements are in terms of gm and mg, not percentages, I promise I know more than that
So do the DVMs who think horses can’t process more than 3-4% fat, who think you have to feed fat with Vit E for it to be absorbed, who think that you have to feed E and Se together, and who think Omolene 300 is a perfectly good feed for a pregnant IR mare “because it’s Purina and it’s a mare & foal feed”
which mean that you implying that because I’ve never worked for a feed company means I don’t know what I’m doing, irrelevant
I won’t hold my breath for you to tell me what I’ve incorrectly stated.
Edited for grammar and spelling
Beet pulp (unmolassed) is about 7-8% total sugar on a DM basis, but I was interested in just how much sugar there was in the unextracted fodder beets. So I went looking and found that.
The amount of sugar in a ration is certainly dependent upon the relative amounts of the componets of same.
It depends on the logistics of the hay supplier and feed store. I am with a horsey-area feed store, and we typically turn over a semi (roughly 500 small squares each) of orchard or timothy within 7-14 days. With 9" of new snow, we can’t get it in fast enough.
We cannot access the hay throughout the trailer to pull enough samples to get a representative sampling of the load, and most labs have a 7-10 day turnaround. That trailer would most likely be sold before we got test results back. Also, many retailers even when pulling consistently from the same hay supplier, that hay isn’t all getting cut off the exact same field at the exact same time. When they load the truck, they may finish loading the last of one batch of orchard, and finish filling the truck with orchard off another field. Still a nice quality hay, but nutrient values are likely to be different.
It’s HARD. I work with people that can only store enough hay for a couple of weeks at a time and maybe have a metabolic horse with dietary restrictions. I’ll try my best to accommodate them, and that sometimes may be connecting them with a different supplier that has better ability to test their hay. I’ve helped folks get samples from us pulled and evaluated, and our hay “tends” to test within certain ranges but I would never in good conscience guarantee that on the next truck that comes in.
Thankfully, even though my bachelor’s in not in animal science or equine nutrition, I have learned a lot from multiple trustworthy feed company reps and Ph.D.s, including several competitor product lines, because good information is good information. If I don’t know the answer to a question, I have developed multiple trusted resources to reach out to that have probably forgotten more about nutrition than I will ever learn.
I was thinking more in terms of the retail supplier getting an analysis from their supplier when the semi-load arrived, which could then be made available to interested customers.
This whole paragraph is very relatable to me.
I have had two metabolic horses on my small farm in the last few years. Plus, an aging small welsh cross pony, who is a VERY easy keeper.
All had slightly different issues. One of the horses was older, one was a performance type in its prime. The pony is pretty basic. But all benefited from a low NSC diet. And are air ferns.
I am blessed with a lot of high quality pasture. So I don’t have to spend a lot on feed and hay. I found spending my budget on a good quality ration balancer, and feeding that in combination with Triple Crown’s Safe Starch Fortified Forage? It works really well for my beasties. I still feed some grass hay in addition to this regimen when they are in stalls or during the worst of winter, but I don’t stress about testing it. Between the rb and the fortified forage… their nutritional needs are being met. The additional hay and pasture are mostly about maintaining gut health, etc.
I’m sure it could all be fine tuned, and everything kept in better balance… but using low NSC fortified forage as part of the feeding program is really useful for metabolic types, and the horses are very healthy and learn to love it.
I guess it depends on the hay supplier. I do believe the tide is turning for consumers to want tested hay, but there are still a lot that don’t want or need it. It will probably incur added cost per load of hay, which gets passed along to the final buyer. Not a lot, but hay is already expensive. Some people will be happy to pay a premium for tested hay, others will head down the road to the next farm store that’s a buck or two less for untested hay. And a supplier may not see the value in the extra work testing and may find it easier to work with another, less demanding, business partner.
IMHO, it shouldn’t add anything significant per bale or load. A comprehensive test through Equi-Analytical is $32. Beyond that it’s the time/labor of someone to get the cores, mix them, grab a handful, and mail it.
I’ve known people who have offered to even pay for it all so they can get the results, and then anyone else looking at that batch of hay benefits if they want.
So following this thread to learn, saw this info and had to search. There is gylcemic index and glycemic load. Found this information on several websites about beets for diabetics:
I am learning myself as I am pre-Type 2.
Thank you very interesting! I was diagnosed pre type 2 as well 5 years back. I went low carb and lost some weight I had put on, and my blood sugar readings improved. I’m back eating roast root vegetables this winter, and I don’t think they are currently an issue for me
Beets were somewhere on some all purpose glycemic index I looked at back then, but I didn’t get as deep into it as this link.
I know…this whole thing is a journey for sure!
I have discovered sourdough and its low glycemic load…and all the recipes you can make using it!
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