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UPDATE now it’s hoof/suspensory/stifles. Holy kissing spine Batman!

Here’s his feet the last time the previous farrier did them.

And here is the last time the farrier before that did him.

I do realize I need to take better pictures. I’m studying up on the “how to take good hoof pics” post!

Shoes can be set back a lot more aggressively than that. I am not a farrier and I don’t know if this is appropriate for your horse, but here is previous farrier and new farrier on my chronically underrun 26 yo:
April

August

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Ain’t that the truth!.. :roll_eyes: :wink:

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Maybe I’m just not that familiar with what’s possible but your pics are months apart, where as mine are one trim (and just a week) apart. I would think there’s not going to be as much progress in a week as in a few trims? Also this is the first time this farrier has done him - I’m thinking they may have been a little conservative since the horse wasn’t in pads and is so thin soled we were worrying the pour in would be too much for him.

Or maybe I’m wrong! I’m going to continue with this farrier until I feel like we aren’t making progress or I learn more about what should be done and isn’t happening - which I am trying to do!

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I’m trying to point out how much the shoe can be set back. Look at the shape of her toe where it meets the shoe. That was done in one visit, I just didn’t take pictures again until August.

I happened to have a farrier visit last night and showed him your pictures. Your toe has not been brought back. Maybe there are reasons for that of which we are not aware, but it has not been brought back the way it looks like it could be.

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Okay that’s something I will keep in mind. Clearly I am not a farrier :joy: This horse has a lot going on so we shall see what happens with the next shoeing in a couple weeks!

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Some light reading if you are interested:

https://www.equipodiatry.com/news/news-essays/a-rational-approach-to-trimming-the-palmar-foot
https://www.equipodiatry.com/news/news-essays/biomechanics-as-a-guide-to-therapeutic-farriery
https://www.equipodiatry.com/news/news-essays/the-negative-palmar-angle

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Pony is due for new shoes in a few days. In the meantime I had the vet out due to a lameness up front which got 90% better by the time she got here. I think it was due to crashing through the fence and then banging his knee on my trailer ramp not long after. No heat or swelling, but went from 3/5 flat out to 1/5 after flexions in about a week.

Since there wasn’t anything to block and he’s been getting better, I chose to just have them x-ray his feet again. Here’s those rads.

And a crude side by side with the first set

The vet was happy with the improvement he’s made, said we should go ahead as planned and put a softer packing in and see if that helps with his vague NQR issue that we’ve been dealing with. There’s nothing he’s giving us that seems like we could block it (besides insisting on cantering in hand after stifle flexions. Makes it hard to evaluate exactly what’s bothering him). We are considering options to try to figure him out, but for now are switching up his packing and going from there.

The angles are all quite flat, but the good news is up front you have enough sole looks like to make it easier to correct the angles. Hinds not so much yet.

I absolutely agree. My farrier said there was only so much she could do on round one - something about his soles being scooped out in the past as well as not wanting to take too much off of a horse she didn’t know well.
I’m just hoping for progress!

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Well, new shoes are on. Went with sole pack and the same pads as before, and added a 2 degree wedge in the back since those angles haven’t changed much and he is so out of whack everywhere. We are also going down to 4 weeks in between shoeings since he grows so much foot (especially toe). Hoping to get the wedges off next cycle or the following one.

Pony walked off stepping quite high behind even a few hours later, which at least made me laugh. We have another lameness exam coming in a couple weeks to see if the shoes helped or if we can pin down what’s bothering him.

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Sounds like you’re on the right track with the wedges and shorter cycle. I would advise that you might have to keep the wedges on a little longer. If you can take follow up rads of the feet, wait until the angles are improved before (gradually, 1 degree at a time) taking the wedges down.

I’m in the same boat as you with a short cycle and 2* wedges which have been on ~ 6 months. We were hoping to start taking them down last month, but follow up rads showed one hind foot was still a little too flat, so we’re leaving them on for now. Will retake pictures in 2-3 months and see where the angles are then before removing the wedges. They were so instrumental in making her more comfortable, I’m hesitant to take them down before the angles are correct on their own.

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Can I ask, are you taking your rads on bare feet? Pre-or post trim? Trying to think of the best way to determine what he’s got going on in the foot itself. Obviously with flat shoes I just had them X-ray as is

We leave the shoes on and just take lateral views, one per foot, since we’re just looking at the angle of P3. The original rads were taken pre-trim, and then I took some follow up post-trim, since the vet was here for something else, then I took some more follow-ups pre-trim, again, so while the comparisons aren’t apples to apples, it still gives me an idea of where we are in our progress. So, in my view, any picture is better than no picture, and any picture will give you an idea of how the angles are.

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Update time! Sorry for the ramble.

After new shoes and sole pack and a week off (I was backpacking and then at work), pony seemed much less lame! Not sound, but better.
Vet was out yesterday to put the lameness locator on and do some blocking since his NQR-ness is so… vague and everywhere.

Locator pinged the front left (the one he has been notably lame on, the one he banged on the trailer ramp and cut up crashing through the fence) as his main issue, with a milder lameness on the hind left. Blocked his front foot and he went 70% sound in front, blocked that high suspensory and he went 100% sound. Which then bumped the hind end issue from mild to moderate lameness. Flexions put the hind issue as higher up, as expected based on his history and previous work ups.

We X-rayed the front knee and fetlock just to be sure, and both were clean. So the front is definitely soft tissue/hoof, not bony. There was talk of injecting the coffin joint in that foot, not sure how we’d diagnose an issue there or if it’s a ‘might help’ for suspected inflammation due to poor shoeing and the recent massive change in angles. So no idea exactly what’s causing the hoof issue, rads were clean.

The hind is suspected stifle arthritis + weakness, and I’m most likely going to inject the stifles soon and keep an eye on the SI. Vet liked the shoeing this time even more, and said the wedges should help some with the wonkiness we are seeing. Didn’t chase the hind anymore as we were almost 3 hours in and pony was DONE.

Plan is to do a single dose of Legend to see if he makes an improvement and put him on Equioxx again. Considering maintenance Legend or Adequan based on his response to the Legend. Got an appointment for an ultrasound of that front suspensory, in the meantime he’s staying on paddock “rest” (no change from his current situation) but starting handwalking in the EquiCore. Vet says the suspensory is most likely inflammation/thickening rather than a hole (due to the mild lameness and most of it blocking to the hoof) and some light stretching and work will be good for him. The EquiCore is to help put some strength on the hind end, since that lameness seems to improve with work.

So there goes all my money for the month!! :laughing::laughing:

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So are you thinking the hoof/suspensory/stifle issues is what caused the kissing spine?

Ah well I think it’s all related. Not sure what caused what, or even if the KS bothers him (some horses are fine with terrible rads, and everything else he’s got going on can cause back soreness). Vet is starting from the ground and working our way up, with the idea that the KS is basically unfixable but the rest can be addressed to get him as comfortable as possible.

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