Update post #38 - Done with New Vocations!!! Misrepresenting horses with ringbone!!!

[NCRider]

[QUOTE=MoreHorsesThanSense;8729392]
This made me laugh out loud!!

I mean, looking at the VAST number of COTH threads about horses purchased/advertised via private sale that are VERY misrepresented (size, health, age, show record, soundness, training, and on and on), it is obvious that many sellers are looking after their own best interests, and not “fully disclosing” anything.

Most horses are not unicorns – they aren’t going to go win in the AO/Jr hunters at Devon with a beginner on their back, but no small number of advertisements make it sound like that is the case.

I think many horses are going to have some irregularities show up on rads even if there is no outward sign of soreness. Some of those irregularities are something to worry about and monitor, while some will be a non-event for a 15-yr performance career. And the one horse with perfect x-rays can get kicked or pull a tendon 2 days later.

However, NV and organizations like it, are
A: often used by people without deep pockets, and those people are often not going to put more-than-the-price of the horse towards an extensive PPE.
B: As “rescue” or “non-profit” type organization, the expectation is they are looking after the best situation for the horse, and are above the petty exaggerations about a horse’s training and soundness that a buyer sort of expects when looking at private sale horses. If other NV horse/locations post descriptions that say “XX has an old bow (or whatever) and is best suited for a flatwork home”, than I’d expect a horse from the same organization posted with “no limitations” as 100% sound and issue-free for me to aim for upper level whatever. In this horse’s case, I think something like “XX has been sound since he’s been here. However his rads do show a XXX and we’re happy to provide digital copies to any prospective buyer to show their vet”. Such transparency would restore my faith in the organization.

I don’t think anyone is trying to make the horse un-placeable. It’s a sad story that a wonderfully-brained horse didn’t work out for the adopter. But it is a cautionary tale that even non-profit org-represented ‘cheap’ horses should get a full PPE with rads. (said by someone who has vetted exactly 1 of her 6 current horses)[/QUOTE]

First, “like most sellers” referenced the fact that most sellers don’t go into detail about disputes between prior seller vets and their own vets on a sales ad. If anything, NV has a rep for better disclosure than most.

Second, the OP’s thread title states that NV is trying to pass off a horse with ringbone. The post then goes on to name the horse. So I think the OP is clearly trying to warn people off the horse and to warn people off of adopting from NV in general. So yeah, I think the OP had an agenda to make NV sound like a shady horse trader. Which they have historically never been.
Anyway, I hope the horse finds a home.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;8729321]
You would have rather gotten him and then found out there was something wrong with him?

You would rather sellers and rescues not tell you up front about problems?

It is not the fault of the OP that this horse has an issue.[/QUOTE]

Yabbut according to NV vets there IS no medical issue with regards to the osteophyte findings. Osteophytes are not a diagnosis. OP concluded it was ringbone herself, per her admission in above posts. Osteophytes are not the same as ringbone. Then OP says it’s a bone spur. Two completely different medical diagnosises, though pathology is very similar.

You can have irregularities on film that have absolutely no impact on limb lameness.

[trubandloki]

@beowulf

Yabbut according to NV vets there IS no medical issue with regards to the osteophyte findings. Osteophytes are not a diagnosis. OP concluded it was ringworm herself, per her admission in above posts.

You can have irregularities on film that have absolutely no impact on limb lameness.

Ringworm is easily treated with an anti-fungal cream and you are very right, it does not tend to cause lameness… and it was no where mentioned by the OP.
:lol:

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;8729446]
Ringworm is easily treated with an anti-fungal cream and you are very right, it does not tend to cause lameness… and it was no where mentioned by the OP.
:lol:[/QUOTE]

Yes, very clever. What’s one COTHer call it, “auto co-wreck”? iPhones really don’t like the word ringbone

[JDW]

Beowulf, I PMed you.

[dkcbr]

Done with New Vocations!!! Misrepresenting horses with ringbone!!!

I read all four pages expecting to see multiple tales of misrepresented horses with ringbone, ringworm, and ringtone.

Now that things have been aired and discussed, and the ad in question has been edited (a good thing!), perhaps the OP would consider editing his/her topic line to reflect that the thread is really a recounting of one experience with one horse.

[RHdobes563]

[QUOTE=dkcbr;8729790]
I read all four pages expecting to see multiple tales of misrepresented horses with ringbone, ringworm, and ringtone.[/QUOTE]

:lol:

[Tackpud]

[QUOTE=JDW;8728732]

The thing is that his desciption “no apparent injuries” and “suitable for all disciplines” would lead people to believe he has a completely clean bill of health as far as they know. Be honest, wouldn’t you think that if you read it? BUT he has an abnormality on his X-rays that was concerning to at least the multiple vets I talked to (that is, for the use for which I had adopted him). So maybe they would have eventually disclosed the X-rays, but why build it up like he’s squeaky clean in the ad?

[QUOTE]

Actually, to me, reading that on an ad would be mean there are no obvious track injuries, ie. bowed tendon, splints, curbs, etc., not that they mean he is 100% sound. No apparent injuries means just that - there is nothing visible on the outside of the horse that is an injury. “Suitable for all disciplines” means he’s got a good temperament.

It would be up to me to do an appropriate vet check INCLUDING x-rays to determine if he had any bone issues that are not apparent from the outside. They never say he is 100% sound, nor that he has a completely clean bill of health. I would never assume a horse is “squeaky clean” after a race career. Most OTTB’s have some issues, many of which go completely undiagnosed because they never bother the horse.

I’ve seen rads where the horse shouldn’t be able to walk, much less jump around at 3’6", yet the horse is completely sound. So I wouldn’t panic over an x-ray unless it was a diagnosis of a current lameness.

[allegro18]

I have adopted from New Vocations (the Marysville, OH location). When I was looking, I inquired about two geldings, both listed in their ads as “no apparent injuries, suitable for all disciplines”. In response to my initial email, which was quite general in its questions, I was given a TON of information, including the information that one of the geldings was dealing with a case of white line disease and that it might require some time before he could really get a good start on a new career. Again, this info was freely volunteered following a general inquiry about the horse, a fact I found extremely comforting knowing that I would be adopting sight unseen.

Also agree that seeing something on rads DOES NOT necessarily equal an unsound or limited horse. Had a situation at my barn fairly recently that a young horse was looking quite lame, so vet was called. Several of us pointed out that horse had been trimmed short, and that that might be the culprit. However, vet wanted to proceed with rads and owner agreed. Lo and behold, they found osteophytes, and rather bad ones. Boy, clearly horse will never be sound again. Lo and behold, a few weeks later when those short feet grew out, horse moved just fine, as he always had. Surprise, surprise. Not saying that they won’t need to keep an eye on things as years go by, but sometimes the simple answer really is the right one.

[Winding_Down]

I agree about the rads and differing interpretations. I vetted a horse out of town a few months ago and the attending vet was very negative about front feet x-rays and when sent to my vet, horse was cleared.

My vet is highly knowledgeable and knows his stuff inside and out.

I would go with the interpretation of the BEST vet and I would guess that NV has the best… just my suspicion.

Based on this thread, I would most definitely go to NV for an OTTB and would not take the OP seriously…

[seeuatx]

I think it’s a bit harsh to be blasting NV for misleading people when clearly they took the horse back, had him evaluated, and are prepared to be open with any enquiries. Your vet says x, theirs says y. The thing is that PPE (or even post purchase) are really only a best guess on future use and time will only tell. Now that he has been returned it is not your place to go screaming about what your vet says he can and cannot do when there are differing opinions, as long as they are being honest with potential interested parties (which it seems they are doing)

I’m reminded of a Practical Horseman article on Lazy Dot years ago. If I remember right, Denny Emerson had her and she wouldn’t sell because of something that showed up in a PPE. Caroline Dowd decided to take a chance on her and she successfully spent years at at advanced (long format no less) until she retired at 19. I’ve always wondered if the the rider and vet that passed on her kicked themselves later on when it clearly proved not an issue for Lazy Dot.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=seeuatx;8731359]
I think it’s a bit harsh to be blasting NV for misleading people when clearly they took the horse back, had him evaluated, and are prepared to be open with any enquiries. Your vet says x, theirs says y. The thing is that PPE (or even post purchase) are really only a best guess on future use and time will only tell. Now that he has been returned it is not your place to go screaming about what your vet says he can and cannot do when there are differing opinions, as long as they are being honest with potential interested parties (which it seems they are doing.[/QUOTE]

Was not OPs horse and most ethical vets don’t discuss specifics about other people’s horses to random people even if asked directly. I don’t get the vitriol, they took the horse back despite vet disagreements on diagnosis. Unless there is no “friend” and it’s actually OPs horse? Who knows who actually said what to whom.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8731109]

I would go with the interpretation of the BEST vet and I would guess that NV has the best… just my suspicion.

Based on this thread, I would most definitely go to NV for an OTTB and would not take the OP seriously…[/QUOTE]

@seeuatx;8731359

I think it’s a bit harsh to be blasting NV for misleading people when clearly they took the horse back, had him evaluated, and are prepared to be open with any enquiries. Your vet says x, theirs says y. The thing is that PPE (or even post purchase) are really only a best guess on future use and time will only tell. Now that he has been returned it is not your place to go screaming about what your vet says he can and cannot do when there are differing opinions, as long as they are being honest with potential interested parties (which it seems they are doing)

@findeight;8731408

Was not OPs horse and most ethical vets don’t discuss specifics about other people’s horses to random people even if asked directly. I don’t get the vitriol, they took the horse back despite vet disagreements on diagnosis. Unless there is no “friend” and it’s actually OPs horse? Who knows who actually said what to whom.

And, in closing , this thread did not deserve 4 pages…

NV is still on the list of good places to find quality OTTBs.

[Xctrygirl]

Personally finding it funny that yet another possible buyer of this horse is a COTH member. There’s a new thread on Off Course about THIS horse.

The world really is a small place sometimes.

Emily

[Fred]

@seeuatx;8731359

I think it’s a bit harsh to be blasting NV for misleading people when clearly they took the horse back, had him evaluated, and are prepared to be open with any enquiries. Your vet says x, theirs says y. The thing is that PPE (or even post purchase) are really only a best guess on future use and time will only tell. Now that he has been returned it is not your place to go screaming about what your vet says he can and cannot do when there are differing opinions, as long as they are being honest with potential interested parties (which it seems they are doing)

More than a bit harsh, IMO.
The subject line is misleading (“horses” plural?) and seeks to undermine the credibility of an excellent organization that does very good work rehoming these beautiful, deserving creatures.
It looks to me like the OP has an agenda, and it is not only not fair to the organization, but it is not fair to this good horse who she named, and ALL the horses who may not get homes because of this one person.
Anyone who googles NV will see this thread, and the horse’s name. :no:
Well done,OP, I hope you are proud of yourself.

That being said, I think it is an excellent organization, with beautiful horses, and anyone looking for an OTTB or STB would be well advised to have a look at what they have.

[ndirish07]

Per the post in off-course the horse has been adopted by another COTHer.

So it seems this is all moot. I hope his new adopter enjoys him–he seems like a cool horse.

[LisaB]

Didn’t mislead me. They were very clear, verbally and on their website that they don’t do PPE’s and when you adopt, you have 30 days to return the horse. They told me I can then do a PPE at my discretion with my vet. Quite clear what I was getting into.

[babecakes]

Snottsdale,Az :lol: I just saw that. that’s funny.

[JDW]

Hi Lisa, just curious who you talked to? When I went to adopt (I was the adopters of the horse in this post) I was under the impression (from reading through their website) that they just wanted you to take the horse home and do a PPE there, BUT, when I actually talked to the KY trainer, she told me no, that they do allow PPEs. I actually did do one on the horse in March. They aren’t really all that “keen” on the whole return thing either, at least not in that location anyway, perhaps the other locations are different.

[JDW]

[QUOTE=LisaB;8744681]
Didn’t mislead me. They were very clear, verbally and on their website that they don’t do PPE’s and when you adopt, you have 30 days to return the horse. They told me I can then do a PPE at my discretion with my vet. Quite clear what I was getting into.[/QUOTE]

Hi LisaB, just curious who you talked to? When I went to adopt (I was the adopters of the horse in this post) I was under the impression (from reading through their website) that they just wanted you to take the horse home and do a PPE there, BUT, when I actually talked to the KY trainer, she told me no, that they do allow PPEs. I actually did do one on the horse in March. They aren’t really all that “keen” on the whole return thing either, at least not in that location anyway, perhaps the other locations are different.