UPDATE: Post 9: Mosquito Dunks & flies...help me remember

I am on week 4 of having the dunk in the horse’s water trough and spraying the stalls, run in, and muck pile once a week. I AM AMAZED AT HOW WELL THIS SEEMS TO BE WORKING!

I have been using fly predators and fly traps for the 3 years I’ve had my horses at home. Last year the flies were biting me in the barn about this time of year. They were getting close to that point just before I started using the dunks. I had been thinking and doing some research on what the most ecologically safe and non bee harming way to control the fly situation, especially since we have a friend that has justed established a hive on our property and I do see honey bees around the barn occasionally (especially during swarm season). This seems to be the thing that has tipped the population to a very few.

I notice my horses are going out to graze some during the day and when they are escaping the sun, they aren’t stomping their feet and they aren’t manically swishing their tails.

Thanks for the tip!!

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DESPERATE BUMP! 😣
The quart spray bottle I used so joyfully for 2 days has been rendered useless.
Spray mechanism does not work.
I took it apart, found no visible clog, tried clearing with a jet spray from the hose. Nothing.
I switched the sprayer from the heavy duty spray bottle I have for flyspray - now at least 5yo - it worked at first, then stopped.
I was afraid I ruined the good sprayer, but it is fine on the original bottle, works at first on the Dunk Tea bottle, then not 😥

The effect from dunks is still evident.
The manure I pick from stalls is not covered with a moving coating of gnats.

Where can I find the liquid BTI?
(as mentioned by @SuzieQNutter).
Google does not show it 😑
Tried TSC & a local garden center. No luck.
Both have the Summit product in dunk & granule form. Also other dunk-like products, but none of the liquids show BTI as an ingredient.
Most of the liquids have permethrin, which is the same product I use as a concentrate (Gordon’s 10%) for the spray I use on the horses.

Oh, Great & Powerful COTH, find me a liquid, or sprayer that can handle a dunk! 🙏

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

I use one of the gallon sprayers that you pump. I put the dunk in a fine mesh bag, but it is clogging the sprayer somewhat. No idea where to get the liquid. I will say that I had a ton of the biting stable flies last year, even though I have used fly predators for years. I started using the dunks late last year, and started again early this year. I have just begun to have a problem with the stable flies this week, and had to put some sticky traps out for them for the first time this year. I think they are starting to come over from the neighbor’s property. I didn’t renew the fly predators this year.

eta Is this the right liquid? How much do you use in a gallon sprayer?
https://www.arbico-organics.com/prod…is-israelensis

I will just say I had the same problem with betadine, it killed all our sprayers in minutes. %$$#%^$

I have been using the 1 gallon hand pump sprayer with no clogging issues.

A quart bottle is probably not nearly the volume you need.

Put the dunk in some sort of tightly woven mesh bag to keep the little pieces out of the sprayer assembly.

When I spray, I use a 3 or 4 GALLON backpack sprayer, and go through about 1/2 - 2/3 that volume. Can’t imagine what you’re accomplishing with so little volume, or how sore your hand must be from spraying!

I’ve been using mine in a 1.5-gallon sprayer. I’ve now stopped spraying the stalls unless horses have been kept in for bad weather and there might be small particles of poop I miss when mucking (no stall mats). Otherwise, I’ve just been spraying the manure cart. That volume lasts about a week.

My sprayer gets clogged. I unscrew the sprayer tip, rinse the tip of the wand and the small tip piece in the water trough, and keep on spraying. That usually takes care of it for the day’s use. I bought a mesh tea infuser, but it was just large enough to not fit in the neck of the jug. I need to look on Amazon for a mesh bag or a smaller infuser.

While I can not really recommend an individual company or product, this company is in Tucson and I’ve heard good stories about them from people who have used them.

How much to use? Always, please, read the label and apply according to instructions; doesn’t make any difference if it is ‘organic’, chemical, etc. Read and apply according to the label. Also review PPE information (Personal Protection Equipment information). Manufacturers spend time and money testing the product and determining appropriate safety label information for a reason :slight_smile: .

You’d follow the application instructions for “nuisance flies.”

That’s a pretty impressive investment, though. Dunks are a buck a piece.

I had similar problems with my 2 gal sprayer clogging. Switched to a 1 gal watering can and now I just do a small area (run in shed) every few days.

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To avoid clogging, I have been pouring the dunk solution into the gallon pump sprayer thru a fine screen - actually the mesh from a Shire’s flymask. Finer likely to be better. I check the spray container for dunk debris also. So far it is OK, though it has only been a few days. Prior to screening, I thought I needed a new gasket but the sales person took my pump apart and there was dunk debris in that top portion, Cleaned it and working fine …so far.

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Thanks for the tips.
I’ll try straining the Dunk Tea back into the spray bottle, or switch to a watering can.
It’s only been 3 days sprayless & gnats are back in force : {

@Simkie dunks cost $6.94 for a 2-pack here.
Bigger pack cost less, but I wanted to test before investing.

Off to the hardware store for a watering can.
I’ll find something to strain with as I prefer spraying for stall doorways.

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It’s important to remember that this stuff needs to be used where flies are breeding. It’s not a repellent. It’s toxic to the maggots. Use it where maggots are feeding to prevent them from turning into flies. That’s unlikely to be your stall doors.

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Score!
Found a small - 2X2" - mesh drawstring bag.
Strained my tea through that, captured all the bits of dunk. Cleaned out the spray mechanism & inserted bag in the bottle, then refilled with strained tea.
Achieved sprayage! : D

@Simkie I spray the doorframes as I see clouds of gnats there.
If I’m wasting spray, so be it.
To achieve a gnatfree stall, I sacrifice.
Windows always seem to be crawling with flylets, so they must breed in the vicinity.

I read the technical info and I understand the dunks work by interrupting the fly and mosquito life cycle. However, anecdotal evidence at our farm seems to indicate it has some repellent properties, perhaps the adults can sense/smell it and avoid the area to avoid infecting their kind? How else would I be able to get a response in the first few days?

We need more research!

I was getting a bit discouraged with my once or twice/day spraying of the stall floors and aisle since so many seemed to be having almost immediate results. I bought my dunks from Amazon so I fleetingly thought maybe they were fakes lol. I also use fly predators, hang stinky traps outside, and use sticky traps in the barn. But still, the flies were hanging out on the floors of the stalls and weren’t flying up high enough to stick to the sticky traps, although I think they were bothering me more than the horses. So anyway, I put one of the StarBar EZ sticky traps on the floor of my pig-horses’s stall overnight while the horses were out. That worked and now my barn is mostly fly-free!! I suppose the dunk solution was disrupting the breeding cycle but I also needed to get rid of the adults that were hanging around.

@LadyBug do remember that this is only effective where flies are breeding. That is probably not in your aisle. Use it where you’d expect to see maggots.

@NaturalSelection there is no evidence of a repellent effect. Maggots must consume bti for this to work. You must just have a rapid cycle. Perhaps your other fly mitigation efforts work very well on the adults, new flies were your main problem, and bti is now effective at preventing larva from maturing.

@2DogsFarm you may have better luck spraying for gnats around the edges of the stall and around the water. That’s where I find they breed.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

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I was curious what the literature said about stable fly breeding.

From https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4722882/

Ovipositional substrates contain decaying vegetation, excluding dung unless it is comprised of or mixed with vegetation or dropped onto vegetation.2 The substrate must be moist, and fermentation of the plant matter is particularly conducive for larval development.3 Examples of substrates in which the pest develops include decaying hay, alfalfa, silage, sugarcane, beached sea grass, lawn cuttings, compost, and piles of waste vegetables.2,3,58 Cattle manure, however, is sometimes utilized by stable flies for oviposition, particularly on mid-western US cattle feedlots, where high summer temperatures cause exposed manure to dry and develop a crust on the surface, sealing moisture within, thereby creating a relatively long-term, insulated habitat.2,6 Similarly, buildups of equine manure mixed with straw, particularly around stables, are also important developmental sites, but unaltered deposits of cow, horse, and sheep dung are less conducive.3 Typically, a female will lay eggs on 4–5 occasions, up to 20 times, and 60–800 eggs can be produced during the life of a female.1,2

Eggs hatch in 2–5 days at 26°C, and higher temperatures can reduce that period to ~12 hours.1,2 Emergent larvae, or maggots, bury themselves in the oviposition substrate to feed and to prevent desiccation.1 After 12–26 days (12–13 days at 27°C), third instars enter the drier parts of their habitat and pupate.1,2 Most pupae produce an adult in 5–26 days at 21°C–26°C, and the imago is ready to fly in less than one hour.

I bolded the parts that seem relevant to us here. These are the areas that bti can be effective in.

When I spray, I cover:

  • entire chicken run (stonedust & dirt, no bedding, chicken poop is not removed, ~15'x50')
  • grassy/weedy edges just outside the chicken run
  • poop bucket that sits outside the chicken run, for coop poop
  • horse stalls, lightly spraying clean bedding and more heavily spraying stall edges and around water tubs
  • muck cart, heavily spraying the days poop and soiled bedding
  • manure pile
  • around the field troughs
Doing all this yesterday, I went through ~3 gallons of my 4 gallon sprayer (misrecalled the size earlier in the thread!)

Most of those are pretty obviously potential spots for breeding flies. I hit the clean bedding thinking that might be useful once it’s soiled and moved to the manure pile (kind of pre inoculating it with bti.)

I also have fly traps–the hanging ones–around the edges of the barn yard. It helps me figure out where flies are coming from…is it the manure pile producing them, or the chicken coop? Or somewhere else? It’s not fool proof, but it provides some direction on where to focus.

Fungus gnats reproduce in similar environments. From http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7448.html

Fungus gnats develop through four stages—egg, larva (with four larval stages or instars), pupa, and adult. The tiny eggs and oblong pupae occur in damp organic media where females lay eggs and larvae feed. At 75ºF, eggs hatch in about 3 days, the larvae take approximately 10 days to develop into pupae, and about 4 days later the adults emerge. A generation of fungus gnats (from female to female) can be produced in about 17 days depending upon temperature. The warmer it is, the faster they will develop and the more generations will be produced in a year.

Most of the fungus gnat’s life is spent as a larva and pupa in organic matter or soil, so the most effective control methods target these immature stages rather than attempting to directly control the mobile, short-lived adults. Physical and cultural management tactics—primarily the reductions of excess moisture and organic debris—are key to reducing fungus gnat problems.

Because fungus gnats thrive in moist conditions, especially where there is an abundance of decaying vegetation and fungi, avoid overwatering and provide good drainage. Allow the surface of container soil to dry between waterings. Clean up standing water, and eliminate any plumbing or irrigation system leaks. Moist and decomposing grass clippings, compost, organic fertilizers, and mulches are also favorite breeding spots.

In my barn, it’s the damp bedding that builds up behind the water tubs that really drives the gnats, so making sure to hit those spots helps considerably. They’re poor flyers, so it’s usually pretty easy to find the damp areas that contribute to those populations.

I was curious what the literature said about stable fly breeding.

From https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4722882/

Ovipositional substrates contain decaying vegetation, excluding dung unless it is comprised of or mixed with vegetation or dropped onto vegetation.2 The substrate must be moist, and fermentation of the plant matter is particularly conducive for larval development.3 Examples of substrates in which the pest develops include decaying hay, alfalfa, silage, sugarcane, beached sea grass, lawn cuttings, compost, and piles of waste vegetables.2,3,58 Cattle manure, however, is sometimes utilized by stable flies for oviposition, particularly on mid-western US cattle feedlots, where high summer temperatures cause exposed manure to dry and develop a crust on the surface, sealing moisture within, thereby creating a relatively long-term, insulated habitat.2,6 Similarly, buildups of equine manure mixed with straw, particularly around stables, are also important developmental sites, but unaltered deposits of cow, horse, and sheep dung are less conducive.3 Typically, a female will lay eggs on 4–5 occasions, up to 20 times, and 60–800 eggs can be produced during the life of a female.1,2

Eggs hatch in 2–5 days at 26°C, and higher temperatures can reduce that period to ~12 hours.1,2 Emergent larvae, or maggots, bury themselves in the oviposition substrate to feed and to prevent desiccation.1 After 12–26 days (12–13 days at 27°C), third instars enter the drier parts of their habitat and pupate.1,2 Most pupae produce an adult in 5–26 days at 21°C–26°C, and the imago is ready to fly in less than one hour.

I bolded the parts that seem relevant to us here. These are the areas that bti can be effective in.

When I spray, I cover:

  • entire chicken run (stonedust & dirt, no bedding, chicken poop is not removed, ~15'x50')
  • grassy/weedy edges just outside the chicken run
  • poop bucket that sits outside the chicken run, for coop poop
  • horse stalls, lightly spraying clean bedding and more heavily spraying stall edges and around water tubs
  • muck cart, heavily spraying the days poop and soiled bedding
  • manure pile
  • around the field troughs
Doing all this yesterday, I went through ~3 gallons of my 4 gallon sprayer (misrecalled the size earlier in the thread!)

Most of those are pretty obviously potential spots for breeding flies. I hit the clean bedding thinking that might be useful once it’s soiled and moved to the manure pile (kind of pre inoculating it with bti.)

I also have fly traps–the hanging ones–around the edges of the barn yard. It helps me figure out where flies are coming from…is it the manure pile producing them, or the chicken coop? Or somewhere else? It’s not fool proof, but it provides some direction on where to focus.

I was curious what the literature said about stable fly breeding.

From https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4722882/

Ovipositional substrates contain decaying vegetation, excluding dung unless it is comprised of or mixed with vegetation or dropped onto vegetation.2 The substrate must be moist, and fermentation of the plant matter is particularly conducive for larval development.3 Examples of substrates in which the pest develops include decaying hay, alfalfa, silage, sugarcane, beached sea grass, lawn cuttings, compost, and piles of waste vegetables.2,3,58 Cattle manure, however, is sometimes utilized by stable flies for oviposition, particularly on mid-western US cattle feedlots, where high summer temperatures cause exposed manure to dry and develop a crust on the surface, sealing moisture within, thereby creating a relatively long-term, insulated habitat.2,6 Similarly, buildups of equine manure mixed with straw, particularly around stables, are also important developmental sites, but unaltered deposits of cow, horse, and sheep dung are less conducive.3 Typically, a female will lay eggs on 4–5 occasions, up to 20 times, and 60–800 eggs can be produced during the life of a female.1,2

Eggs hatch in 2–5 days at 26°C, and higher temperatures can reduce that period to ~12 hours.1,2 Emergent larvae, or maggots, bury themselves in the oviposition substrate to feed and to prevent desiccation.1 After 12–26 days (12–13 days at 27°C), third instars enter the drier parts of their habitat and pupate.1,2 Most pupae produce an adult in 5–26 days at 21°C–26°C, and the imago is ready to fly in less than one hour.

I bolded the parts that seem relevant to us here. These are the areas that bti can be effective in.

When I spray, I cover:

  • entire chicken run (stonedust & dirt, no bedding, chicken poop is not removed, ~15'x50')
  • grassy/weedy edges just outside the chicken run
  • poop bucket that sits outside the chicken run, for coop poop
  • horse stalls, lightly spraying clean bedding and more heavily spraying stall edges and around water tubs
  • muck cart, heavily spraying the days poop and soiled bedding
  • manure pile
  • around the field troughs
Doing all this yesterday, I went through ~3 gallons of my 4 gallon sprayer (misrecalled the size earlier in the thread!)

Most of those are pretty obviously potential spots for breeding flies. I hit the clean bedding thinking that might be useful once it’s soiled and moved to the manure pile (kind of pre inoculating it with bti.)

I also have fly traps–the hanging ones–around the edges of the barn yard. It helps me figure out where flies are coming from…is it the manure pile producing them, or the chicken coop? Or somewhere else? It’s not fool proof, but it provides some direction on where to focus.

Fungus gnats reproduce in similar environments. From http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7448.html

Fungus gnats develop through four stages—egg, larva (with four larval stages or instars), pupa, and adult. The tiny eggs and oblong pupae occur in damp organic media where females lay eggs and larvae feed. At 75ºF, eggs hatch in about 3 days, the larvae take approximately 10 days to develop into pupae, and about 4 days later the adults emerge. A generation of fungus gnats (from female to female) can be produced in about 17 days depending upon temperature. The warmer it is, the faster they will develop and the more generations will be produced in a year.

Most of the fungus gnat’s life is spent as a larva and pupa in organic matter or soil, so the most effective control methods target these immature stages rather than attempting to directly control the mobile, short-lived adults. Physical and cultural management tactics—primarily the reductions of excess moisture and organic debris—are key to reducing fungus gnat problems.

Because fungus gnats thrive in moist conditions, especially where there is an abundance of decaying vegetation and fungi, avoid overwatering and provide good drainage. Allow the surface of container soil to dry between waterings. Clean up standing water, and eliminate any plumbing or irrigation system leaks. Moist and decomposing grass clippings, compost, organic fertilizers, and mulches are also favorite breeding spots.

In my barn, it’s the damp bedding that builds up behind the water tubs that really drives the gnats, so making sure to hit those spots helps considerably. They’re poor flyers, so it’s usually pretty easy to find the damp areas that contribute to those populations.

I hope this helps identify areas to target!

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