Update to the saddle saga

[shadesofbay3]

okay. so see my last post about my unhappiness with my saddle rep for a backstory before reading this if you would like…

so long story short, the saddle finally arrived… it is beautiful! but there is a problem (story of my life…)

to begin with, the horse i have bought the saddle for is not working out for me at all, so he is being returned to the seller in exchange for a horse that is better suited for me (very grateful for that).

until the current horse goes back (hopefully in 7 days), my trainer has been working with him… with the new saddle… and she has just let me know that it doesn’t fit.

how in the h*ll does a custom saddle not fit? i can understand needing to have some adjustments here and there, but apparently when she rode in the saddle, the cantle flops up and down

i know that i do have a complementary fitting/adjustment with the fitter. i have already let the fitter know that the saddle will be for a new horse, and she has assured me that this saddle should be able to fit the new horse and can be adjusted and re-flocked accordingly, but how can i be sure of that, when it has come in and not even fit the horse that it was literally custom made to fit? i waited 2 months for this saddle (which i understand is not that long in the grand scheme of things), but i cant go through this whole thing again

i am so just upset and pretty angry and dont know what to do. i know i need to reach out to her but dont even know if there is a point until my new horse arrives because the old one should be returning in a week

also, thinking back on the whole process (this was my first custom saddle) … she didnt take tracings of his back or anything. isn’t that a standard part of the process?

[NoSuchPerson]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the saddle I had made based on an entire stack of tracings didn’t fit the horse. Like, really didn’t fit the horse. So even careful tracings don’t assure good fit.

I don’t like to use absolutes like “always” and “never” because they so often come back to bite you, but I think I can safely say I will never buy a custom saddle again.

[ivy62]

Was it truly a custom saddle or a customized saddle? Makes a huge difference.

[shadesofbay3]

I dont know if the semantics matter that much, but for $7500 I would hope that the cantle wouldn’t be flapping up and down at the walk.

[ivy62]

Look into a Stackhouse lovely saddle and made to your specifications

[Posting_Trot]

I’d hope that after paying $7500 for a “custom” saddle, you’d get something that would fit, but I guess not.

I don’t know that you have many options except to hope that it might fit the new (replacement) horse. If you’re returning the horse for which the saddle was supposedly made, I don’t know what else you can do.

[luvmyhackney]

Oh yikes.

I couldn’t imagine paying 7500 for a saddle and not having it fit. The fact you aren’t crying or having a tantrum makes you better than me.

Congrats on the new horse coming.

[fivestrideline]

@Posting_Trot

I don’t know that you have many options except to hope that it might fit the new (replacement) horse. If you’re returning the horse for which the saddle was supposedly made, I don’t know what else you can do

Yeah I’m afraid that OP has more recourse if they were keeping the horse it was made for. As we have seen in the Stubben threads, it’s a tough fight to get makers to fix it when you have the horse, let alone to fulfill fitter assertions that it should fit something else.

Good luck OP, I hope your next horse fits the saddle

[GraceLikeRain]

@shadesofbay3

have already let the fitter know that the saddle will be for a new horse, and she has assured me that this saddle should be able to fit the new horse and can be adjusted and re-flocked accordingly

I don’t think there is a bigger red flag in the entire world than this statement. Has she met horse two? Does she know his back shape? Seen photos from multiple angles?

You got a prestige if memory serves. I believe they do a Composite tree that has to be shipped out to adjust the width and that doesn’t help if the tree shape is off. Is it wool or foam flocked?

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

After paying $8800, I can assure you that it definitely will not fit properly sometimes. Ask me how I know. The answer and solution given to me was “Oh, we can modify it… for somewhere between $800-1000”. Ummmmm… I had it for 6 months when it was determined by a vet and her tech that is a saddle fitter, that it, indeed, did not fit the horse at that point, or probably ever, since no major body issue had transpired.

[dmveventer]

Is your saddle wool flocked? If so, then yes it will need to be adjusted before it truly fits. Wool saddles don’t get ordered “custom” in the same way the foam ones do because most of the customization happens with the flocking. There’s no way to flock a saddle to fit your horse before shipping it to you, it has to be done hands-on. When I got my Prestige the cantle also moved up and down before I had it flocked to fit my horse. We did an immediate adjustment to fix that so the movement stopped, and then let the flocking settle to my horse’s back for another month before doing the final tweaks and it fit perfectly from there.

On fitting the new horse, there’s a good amount of adjustability between the wool flocking and the trees that can be widened/narrowed indefinitely, so if the horse is roughly the same type you have a good shot of making it work. You’ll just have to wait and try it out. You might find it helpful to have your trainer sit in on the fitting as an extra set of eyes, I did that once when my trainer was seeing something I wasn’t feeling and between the three of us we were able to pin down the issue.

@shadesofbay3

she didnt take tracings of his back or anything. isn’t that a standard part of the process?

No, not necessarily. Again, with wool you want the fitting done in person, with adjustments made after watching the horse and rider move in the saddle. A static fitting will only get you partway there and tracings can only confirm whether the general shape of the tree will fit your horse, but if you tried a demo saddle before buying there was no need for tracings.

[shadesofbay3]

thank you everyone for your insight and wisdom

it is helpful to know that a wool saddle isn’t truly custom … i knew it would need adjusting when it came in, i guess i just didn’t know the amount that it would require. this is my first custom/semi custom saddle.

as soon as i decided that the gelding i bought the saddle for wasn’t for me, i reached out to the fitter and she did tell me that the saddle should very likely be able to fit the new guy (also a warmblood)… so the plan is to get her and trainer to look at it on him… she can adjust the tree and the flocking …

i did ride in a bunch of demos on the original guy before ordering this one. i just thought it would come in and fit like a glove … my ignorance i guess this whole process has not been fun, that’s for sure

[SummerRose]

That’s frustrating.

I’d have expected it to fit, too. Or if it’s just assumed that it will need to be tweaked (or maybe in your case, comprehensively reworked), I’d think that the fitter or seller shoud have made that part of the process and automatically scheduled a fitting and alteration appointment as soon as you got it, as part of the cost.

I hope you’re able to get the saddle to fit your next horse with minimal cost.

[Scribbler]

Tree shape still really matters in a wool flocked saddle, and if the tree shape of that brand isn’t a good match for your horse no amount of flocking will fix it.

[endlessclimb]

So… I had a “Prestige trained” fitter look at my saddles because my regular fitter was being a pain about scheduling and such, and I really hate chasing people to give them money.

At any rate - her theory was that the cantle should be moving, that it should “float” off their back.

… say what?

So this might be by design, based on how they train their reps/fitters.

[dmveventer]

@endlessclimb

So this might be by design, based on how they train their reps/fitters.

My Prestige rep put me on her schedule pretty quick when I reported the cantle was moving, so not a training issue with the brand. There are unfortunately a lot of bad fitters out there in general though. I don’t know what Prestige’s process is for hiring or training reps but I’ve been very happy with mine.

@shadesofbay3

it is helpful to know that a wool saddle isn’t truly custom … i knew it would need adjusting when it came in, i guess i just didn’t know the amount that it would require.

This is actually the perk of wool saddles though - instead of one “custom” fit that you’re then stuck with unless you order new panels, a wool flocked saddle can be continuously customized as your horse changes (or in this case, if you change horses). You can make as many tiny tweaks as you want to get the best fit possible. It does take more time and effort up front which can be frustrating, but IMO it’s worth it once you get through those first few fittings.

[wanderlust]

So there is actually a train of though in saddle fitting that the back of the saddle should not sit hard and flush with the back while standing/at the walk, because then it is pressing down into the back and does not give the horse the space to lift his back while traveling.

See this post from saddle fit 4 life who I think does a good job of explaining it:

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=847458207408625&set=a.547199830767799

[Scribbler]

That link won’t work for me but isn’t saddle fit 4 life Schleese? They have some wonky ideas about saddle fit, and I’ve seen some bad work by their fitters. They promise to make their one tree fit all horses.

IME a cantle popping up is a sign of bad fit elsewhere, especially too tight in the withers.

[wanderlust]

It is not Schleese. It is these folks and they are very good: https://saddlefit4lifeacademy.com/

Anecdotally, my hard to fit and very sensitive horse is now going in an ancient Hermes Steinkraus with some minor movement in the cantle. Happy as a clam, coming up through her back and the first good report from our chiro since she started working on her. Does not react at all to being saddled or girthed, and she is a horse who will let you know if she’s unhappy with what you put on her back.

[Scribbler]

@wanderlust

It is not Schleese. It is these folks and they are very good: https://saddlefit4lifeacademy.com/

Anecdotally, my hard to fit and very sensitive horse is now going in an ancient Hermes Steinkraus with some minor movement in the cantle. Happy as a clam, coming up through her back and the first good report from our chiro since she started working on her. Does not react at all to being saddled or girthed, and she is a horse who will let you know if she’s unhappy with what you put on her back.

Saddle fit 4 life may have hived off as their own entity more recently but they still show shared branding that points to their origins with Schleese as in this link. Where Joachim Schleese is named as both the founder and the person leading the workshop.

https://schleese.com/saddlefit-4-life-equine-ergonomist-training-redmond-or/