Update with video: post 10. Horse sways when you pick up his foot

[fivestrideline]

I posted a bit about this a bit in another (long) thread in Off Course, but it’s been bothering me so I thought I’d make it it’s own post.

Has anyone encountered this? 4YO OTTB (retired in the fall) sways like a drunkard when you pick up his front foot. It appears to only happen with the left front up, and stops when he can rest it on something like the farrier stand. He’s not trying to yank it away, but shifts his weight back and forth and side to side.

He does have a trailer rub on his right butt cheek (opposite side of the foot in the air) - he arrived in a slant and the shipper said he was sitting on the wall a bit. I’m unsure if this is related.

One thing of note is that this horse arrived on crazy long feet that were pretty bruised (he’s been seen once so far by my farrier), and losing a shoe this week made him cautious and a bit ouchy despite the soft ground. The swaying has been a thing since he arrived and hasn’t changed as far as I can tell.

I spoke to the vet and showed them what he does but they were unconcerned. They were willing to do a lameness exam but the horse doesn’t lunge yet so they said to work him and see if anything pops up. I like my vet, but this swaying thing has me concerned

[Simkie]

I’ve seen this when they’re sore. They’re trying to find a comfortable place to balance on three legs and can’t. Putting the foot on the stand allows him to shift some weight back to that foot and relieve his discomfort.

A trial with a pain med or robaxin or gabapentin might be interesting. Or just give him some time to work through whatever this is, before asking him anything.

[Mosey_2003]

I might try some foam padding under the opposite front just to see if that alleviated it any.

[fivestrideline]

I’ve been riding him since the vet wanted him working but I’ve considered backing off to just handwalking. He’s out 24/7, so I figure the handwalking can’t be worse?

I can try some pain meds. I have Tylenol and bute, and gabapentin but not enough to share with him (one of my others is on it). The foam idea is interesting - I have some lying around I could cut down!

He seems sound. If anything, he’s stifle sore - vet noticed some catching there. I notice he sometimes feels wonky on the right diagonal but it’s not consistent and is worse when going downhill on a straight line.

[Posting_Trot]

Have you tried packing both his front hooves with something like Magic Cushion? Even if it doesn’t alleviate the swaying it would probably feel good for his feet that are recovering from bruising and hard ground.

I’ve seen his pics on your other thread, and he’s very cute!

[fivestrideline]

I haven’t yet - it’s out of stock locally so I need to order. I have “regular” hoof packing somewhere… it’s just so darn muddy here it wouldn’t do much good besides the time he spends in the crossties.

I should get a video to show the vet.

[IPEsq]

Video would be helpful. Depending on what he’s doing, could indicate a lower neck problem, if not more soreness on the other front. Can he lower his head with that foot stretched forward? What happens if you pull it back (stretch the point of the shoulder)? When it is on the farrier stand, what are the back feet doing then? I don’t think it’s related to being in the slant load—pretty common for them to sit on the wall or the divider for a longer trip.

[OverandOnward]

Is he looking down at the ground as he walks? Especially when moving from a softer to a harder surface? Not necessarily dropping his head to stare at it, but eyes constantly pointing downward as he walks.

Does he place his feet carefully on the ground, even to the point of having a bit of a wonky and/or uneven movement? Changing the usual angle of a particular foot that is going down on the ground. Might appear to be moving a bit flat-footed, or tip-toeing a bit, or something of that nature.

If a horse is sore on more than one foot or leg, it can be harder for us to pick up, because they can’t favor just one foot or leg. So they walk carefully and constantly make little adjustments to give them more relief. But their demeanor can be matter-of-fact about it, so it’s hard to clearly say the horse is ‘lame’.

Also horses showing lameness are pretty sore by the time they tell us. Horse instinct is that it isn’t good to be the one lame horse in the herd. Predators will single out that one.

If you aren’t looking for it, this kind of soreness is easy to miss. And it can be hard to figure out exactly which of their legs and feet they are favoring, because their movement isn’t consistent.

Horses set their feet down in a heel-toe movement, analogous to what humans do, although the feet are of course shaped differently. Look for irregularities in how individual feet are meeting the ground as the horse walks. That’s typical of foot soreness.

I find that often I can hear this more clearly than I can see it. Compared with other horses walking on a firm surface, there isn’t a plain and repetitive clip-clop clip-clop, of every foot coming down in the same way. It is something like clippety-clip-clop-clop-cloppety-clip-etc. Visually they look as if they are dancing or fidgeting a bit, as they change angles to favor multiple sore spots. If this is a symptom of hurting, it will be something that they are doing constantly, not just fidgeting and fussing for a few moments.

[fivestrideline]

@OverandOnward

Is he looking down at the ground as he walks? Especially when moving from a softer to a harder surface? Not necessarily dropping his head to stare at it, but eyes constantly pointing downward as he walks.

Does he place his feet carefully on the ground, even to the point of having a bit of a wonky and/or uneven movement? Changing the usual angle of a particular foot that is going down on the ground. Might appear to be moving a bit flat-footed, or tip-toeing a bit, or something of that nature.

Not that I’ve noticed. He’s been pretty sure footed, and I have one that’s funky so I’m hyper aware of it. His cadence is pretty regular too (when he has both front shoes on anyway ).

I’ll have to get some video. I’m pretty confident I can recreate the swaying, but the footfalls will be tough - he’s still a farrier work in progress.

He also isn’t super fidgety or dancing around (again, I have one that is), but he’s young and learning the rules as well.

[fivestrideline]

Alright here’s a video link to YouTube:

Forrest 2/18

I couldn’t get him to exhibit the swaying when I first brought him in. I took him on a 30 minute handwalk (it’s quite hilly here), and this is what I got following that. You can see he sways with the first foot, and slams it down. He doesn’t sway with the second, but licks and chews after I put it down.

Pardon the angle and the lighting, I’m on my own . Yes he’s backwards in the cross ties because the light from outside was blowing out my camera.

[fivestrideline]

The fact that it only happened after exercise and seems to be restricted to one side makes me think this is weakness/soreness related? If it was regular foot pain I’d think it would happen before and after work. I would also imagine he’d work out of regular arthritis pain somewhat, but I’m unsure.

@OverandOnward

Is he looking down at the ground as he walks? Especially when moving from a softer to a harder surface? Not necessarily dropping his head to stare at it, but eyes constantly pointing downward as he walks.

Quoting again because I paid attention this time - nope, definitely not staring at the ground. He’s paying attention to his feet and doesn’t crash through things or trip over roots, but he’s not being weird about it either.

@OverandOnward

Compared with other horses walking on a firm surface, there isn’t a plain and repetitive clip-clop clip-clop, of every foot coming down in the same way. It is something like clippety-clip-clop-clop-cloppety-clip-etc.

He’s got a regular rhythm, MAYBE setting the right front down a bit harder than the other. He tracks up slightly more with the left hind than the right.

@IPEsq

Can he lower his head with that foot stretched forward? What happens if you pull it back (stretch the point of the shoulder)? When it is on the farrier stand, what are the back feet doing then?

Yes he can lower his head with the foot forward. Pulling it back seems to just make him rebalance normally. He doesn’t seem to readjust the hinds when the foot is on the stand, he remains still.

[Lunabear1988]

Just to let you know the link does not take us to a video.

Given the state of his feet when he arrived, I would think it’s foot soreness more than anything. That being said before my wobbler horse was diagnosed, we had a few issues picking up his feet and with the farrier. But it sounds like it was much more dramatic than what you’re describing.

[fivestrideline]

Whoops, edited with a new link. Does that work?

[Lunabear1988]

Yes!

And watching the video it was a lot less dramatic than I was anticipating. Definitely not what I experienced with my wobbler’s horse at all.

That being said he kind of reminds me of my current horse. He also can sway or fuss a bit. He’s the one with the kissing spine and stifle issues. Personally I think for my horse it’s the stifles that are actually the issue but hard to tell. It’s better now than it was.

I did notice it looks like your horse standing under himself with his back feet? It’s hard to tell at that angle.

[fivestrideline]

Yes he does! A bit camped under. Honestly I think it has improved since he got here, but his feet are still in progress so I’m sure that’s not helping. Stifles are definitely contributing - it’s why I’ve not backed off working him entirely, I want to build some strength there.

[Lunabear1988]

With the feet and you suspecting weak stifles, I would just watch and see.

It might be interesting to have a body worker out and see if that helps any. But I think I would just see how things go for a little.

Congratulations though, he looks like an extraordinarily good egg.

[fivestrideline]

Thanks! He’s special .

The swaying gets to be nonstop when the farrier is working on him, probably because it’s so much longer that he’s got to hold the leg up. It doesn’t happen with the other front held up (as shown in the video).

[TWH_Girl]

My 5 yr old does this and it’s been a combination of stifle and SI issues. PM me if you’d like more details. Weakness and pain seem intertwined and hard to distinguish.

[TWH_Girl]

@fivestrideline

The swaying gets to be nonstop when the farrier is working on him, probably because it’s so much longer that he’s got to hold the leg up. It doesn’t happen with the other front held up (as shown in the video).

How does he do when you pick up the hind feet?

Sorry it’s bothering you…I’ve had a few things to address in my guy I’ve had about a year but they have been correctable. I think Forrest’s issues will be as well. Take heart.

[barnesthenoble]

I have a horse who sways very similarly. It’s much worse when his feet are sore, markedly improved when we have them comfy, but can also come back if he’s gotten out of shape or if he’s tweaked something. I would really be inclined towards a combination of weakness and sore feet/possibly stifles. He’s a cutie!