That’s fantastic! I’d love to hear - did you do any further diagnostics, and did you find anything there? I’m asking specifically after neck and SI problems. My thinking is there are horses where KS is the problem, and horses where KS is one of many other issues, and horses in between where X is causing Y. I’d love to hear if you found anything else!
Secondly, I’d love to know who you used - feel free to PM me!
SI was top of list of things we kept looking for while investigating, but somewhat of a surprise to the vet we never found anything tied to the SI. No issues with hoof angles or NPA. I have radiographs of the neck which are fairly unremarkable and haven’t changed in the past 5 years - he can show some neck soreness so we inject every 2 years or so and recheck to make sure there have been no changes. Since he’s hit his teens he’s started getting stifle injections yearly.
It probably seems like a lot to some people, but I prefer to address any concerns proactively. I do a performance exam twice a year to hopefully stay ahead of things.
So as a final update, I’ve purchased the horse. I’m pretty zen about what comes next. I’ll just get him off on the right foot with groundwork and topline rehabilitation before I even start riding, and then will monitor from there to see what will keep him happy and in work and just take it a day at a time.
Thanks everyone for all of your insight and sharing of your experiences!
Good luck! May you have many happy rides.
Congratulations!! I hope you guys have a good time together. I have a horse with mild kissing spine, only thing I didn’t x-ray at the PPE was his back lol.
It’s not been easy but not horrible either. He’s a pretty happy guy and with rehab is doing well.
I personally did not do any further diagnostics. My veterinarians and I were confident that KS was the issue, but I did have a friend who further xrayed and didn’t find anything beyond the KS. She checked out her horse’s neck. I don’t want to firmly say that KS is the root of all evil but with how important the back is, I don’t think it’s far-fetched to say that pain can have wide implications.
Not sure if you are a member or not, but on the private RideIQ page someone asked about Kissing Spine. There was at least 11 people that responded with very encouraging stories and photos. Though many said maintenance is important. But it was an encouraging thread. Small sample size but encouraging.
Thank you, I will check! I believe I am in that group. I also found some positive threads in the Plaid Horse AA Lounge that sounded similar - positive stories that highlighted maintenance / saddle fit / strength training / etc.
Hey all! Just wanted to post an update.
So far, so good! He’s proven to be a good egg in every way, still no back issues & has responded very well to full work. He uses himself very well over jumps & poles, and doesn’t palpate in his back during his chiro or bodywork. We work him 4-5 days a week, with a mix of flatwork, jumping (about 1-2x a week, he’s still only 5), and field work/trail rides.
This was from our latest lesson - first bounce combination and first canter over a vertical!
AQMkChaAMRjrlGN4LVO6Dsh-5r-_kW6582ZNVcEmyZxHaXwJE4erg98MI9TUaPC1Auitt7tz5HIE4YmI-ULhAYJg
He is very cute. It looks like he is progressing well and I can see why you liked him enough to buy him. Keep this video as a baseline as he gets older. I noticed he headbobs out the corner, but he looks better going down the diagonal. I did see some things characteristic of KS in how he moves behind, but he is also young and the work is light.
If this is how he moves on his best day, he is symptomatic - but that doesn’t mean he isn’t rideable. His expression is pleasant and he looks to enjoy the challenge of the work. I wouldn’t change the ask, but I want to share a dose of reality. Hopefully as the work progresses he loses that weakness behind. I’m looking forward to more positive updates - we need more KS success stories out there. 
I agree, he’s adorable and happy looking but I too saw a few headbobs out of the corner but then it got better. He looks like he has a wonderful personality though.
Can you expand more on what you normally see behind on these horses? Just as somebody that has a kissing spine horse, myself.
There is a whole shape language to how horses with back pain move and it is often not one specific symptom, but multiple symptoms together that might suggest pain. As a stand alone these symptoms might be general weakness, greenness, any number of things. But when there’s two or more together, it’s likely back pain.
KS horses tend to have flat pelvis and hip movement, with a flat tail that does not have much fluidity between paces. Either held away from the body without much movement, or clamped down with tail hairs being slapped back and forth between hocks (side note: this is also sometimes a clinical sign of hock pain). When they jump or go through a corner you may see the tail turn to one side and may see more space between tail and buttock as they hold it out straight behind them.
The range of motion in their hind leg will appear as one forward motion versus a series of independent opening and closings (articulation) of joints: opening of the hip and stifle, then opening and reaching of the hock with forward extension of the limb, followed by flexion in the pastern and fetlock in loading phase. In a horse with back pain the whole hind limb seems to move all at once, think of placing your arms at your side and keeping the whole arm straight as you raise it forward to your shoulder, then keep it straight as you bring it back to your hips - very robotic. That is the best analogue I can give in a written description for how these horses move; there does not tend to be much bend or flexion of the limb in adduction phase. The try to keep the whole hind end straight versus articulate and push.
The (reduced) range of motion in the pastern and fetlock is another characteristic symptom of pain behind. They may demonstrate a stubbing toe-first landing behind where their pastern and fetlock are stiff before loading phase, very similar to how horses with (hind) caudal heel pain move. It can look like the fetlock knuckling over before ever landing. It’s most obvious as a stabby landing or toe dragging. Rather than reach behind and overtrack, they tend to bring that hind leg under them and wait for the force of landing to flex the pastern. The more experience with KS I have the more I see this symptom as a solid standalone for back pain; some other symptoms of KS (like stiff hocks) overlap with other clinical diseases and do not always equal back pain by themselves.
To me, KS is most obvious in the canter. There may not be much degree in separation of the hinds, very little reach or step under themselves, and often you will see them swap leads or prefer one leg for push off over the other right before fences. This can sometimes read as stifle pain. They might trail with their hocks, and tend to move the leg stiffly versus fully articulate it. When watching them canter away on a straight line the hock does not have much of a ‘pendulum’ motion but rather a snappy up & down one. Often paired with a snapping of the hoof and/or one hock that is held higher or away from the body, and some twisting of the hock in all three gaits but most obvious at the walk. Overall the picture would be of a weak[er] hind end and will look as if the horse is quick to offload weight behind.
The way they hold their neck is also sometimes a good tell, because they will stabilize offloading their hind limbs with their neck. KS is not always “stiff, fast, and inverted” - some personality types (especially the ‘economy mode’ horses) will jump in a more flat and long manner, tend to be more on the forehand and use their neck to balance that. These horses tend to be rein lame with a lot of contact because the contact/weight in the reins is restricting their ability to compensate behind.
In general as the demands of ridden work increase, the weakness behind becomes more obvious and will come with a subset of ‘behavioral problems’ that is the horse’s way of communicating they cannot physically perform what is asked in a pain-free way.
KS has so many symptoms and many horses are too generous until they reach their limit. KS also doesn’t always produce a limp – especially in the beginning before compensational injuries happen – it’s easy to miss until it isn’t. The best thing is to know your horse’s baseline on any given day - know what is a normal stride length for their conformation, know what they look like on their best days and compare it ruthlessly every day. Not every KS horse has the same symptoms and management and riding style all play into their success. Because KS is a chronic (pain) disease, they will have good and bad days just like us. Best we can do is tweak their management and their therapies in a way that works best for them. It takes a lot of trial and error to figure out what works best for your specific horse.
I experienced this in reverse with my horse. I purchased him very fit doing a job (relatively happily) but when I rode less and he lost some topline and fitness his behavior got worse and worse. Being worked & fit was “better” for him.
Oh no! I’m sorry to hear that. Being in shape is better for most horses physiologically, especially if they are stalled. It’s not uncommon for KS horses to struggle to adapt to changes. Very Princess and the Pea - sometimes you[g] have just the right assembly of team members to make their management perfect and the tiniest change upends the whole thing. I got one just like that and it’s a balancing act keeping him happy in work.
In hindsight, he had classic kissing spine behaviors that I can now see a mile away but not 10yrs ago. It also took years for him get to his worst point. I had 3yrs of what I thought was a quirky (most likely painful) but enjoyable horse until I got busy with life and rode less and less. It was also insane to me it took 3 vets to get one to look at his back and get a diagnosis. I live just outside of Wellington so I have access to plenty of good sporthorse vets it just didn’t make sense. Oh well…he’s happily retired living his best life now on my dime till he dies.
Thank you! The moving the whole leg thing stiffly rings true for my horse for sure.
You just described my KS horse to a T.
He looked a lot like OP’s horse when he was younger and still going. If I knew then what I know now, I would’ve clocked the issue sooner and likely have been able to manage him for longer before having to retire and start thinking about his day to day.
I think he looks like a fun, good minded green TB. I would just keep on keeping on w/ him.
I believe I chimed in earlier on this thread- having also bought the horse - 2x. we also keep keeping on with an eye towards fitness and work over the back and saddle fit. I know that people will argue with me but I honestly don’t think all horses with KS are symptomatic - any more than folks w/ bad knee or spine x-rays absolutely have pain (I am raising my hand here). He looks happy and comfortable, IMHO.
Enjoy him and thanks for sharing his progress. Any horse is a crap shoot.
Agree, I bought one at a reputable performance sale in Ireland, vet was happy with the back x ray despite me asking about slight wastage of saddle area. Horse was 5 year old, once home he was incredibly reactive especially after having to use himself over a fence. My own vets x rays showed processes that were too close together. He became sour and miserable even after having back medicated. I gave him to a friend for light hacking and he still lives with us. If your gut questions anything walk away is always my advice.
Yup. Only on COTH will a wannabe know-it-all diagnose a green TB as symptomatic from a 25-second video of said horse happily jumping around.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
