Update - WWYD - PPE findings on young OTTB

You’re the second person to use the phrase “the nastiness is uncalled for”. What is so nasty to you? Because a couple of us are not buying the vet-type diagnosis from a short video?

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Some posters, yourself included, have been downright nasty to someone who shared their OPINION, personal experience, and insight in a way that was in NO WAY trying to be a vet or suggesting the owner do anything other than keep an eye on it. I will not quote these instances because I don’t want to turn this into an argument thread.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinions and to share their experiences, even to politely disagree. OP can take what’s helpful and leave the rest :woman_shrugging:t3:, but it would be nice to have a discussion without getting into dramatics and snark.

That’s all I’ll say on the matter.

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I mean, one of those posters was literally just asked to provide, and did provide, potential diagnoses.

I think it’s fair to push back on some of the armchair vetwork that goes on here.

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Well thank you for your frank, and dare I say, nasty answer reply. :smile:

I wouldn’t have posted except for the implied impression that many vets and trainers are incompetent. I gave my experience with a trainer that doesn’t deserve that slight. I do know of a few vets that have said “I’m not a lameness expert”, but they then recommended either another vet clinic or the local vet college.

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If only vets were allowed to comment on COTH, we wouldn’t have much activity. It’s so strange what people gatekeep here. Not being a vet doesn’t prevent you from seeing lameness or discussing it. Just like not being a farrier doesn’t mean you can’t identify a bad trim job. People ask on this forum all the time where to start with diagnostics.

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OK, but the OP on this thread did not ask for your opinion or observation about her horse.

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The thread title is literally “WWYD” and the subject was asking for advice and opinions. People (including myself) are responding with what they would do and their opinions. That’s part of COTH.

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The original thread was WWYD, the update was “Here’s what I did.”

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I really wish people could see the other side of the coin.

When someone states that ALL KS horses are symptomatic - which I take to mean either in pain or moving incorrectly (I honestly don’t know what it means other than lame or sore backed) - and owners who believe their KS horses are actually fine - are just plain ignorant, blind or stupid; vets are incompetent and trainers (who may be able to tell) are unethical - well, it’s hard not to push back because it’s actually insulting - even though it was meant to be helpful and simply to give advice.

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Badda-bing! You hit the nail on the head.

That’s all there ever was before diagnostic imaging. If every KS horse was symptomatic or presented in a very specific way, I think people would have caught on to KS well before diagnostics were available. Not even the case now with being able to see the spine and knowing changes are present, hence why vets are all over the place as far as prognosis pertaining to radiograph findings of the back. KS sucks. It’s not cut and dry.

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I read your original post, appreciated your perspective, and didn’t take what you said personally. Shutting down someone’s experience because you don’t agree with them is hardly fair discourse.

We are almost on the same side of the coin, except you interpreted my words to mean symptomatic = unrideable = unethical to ride them. That’s not what I said. We both ride KS horses. We’re not bad horsewomen for doing this - we just need to watch the horse as the work progresses, be mindful of how the disease impacts other parts of the body, establish a baseline to refer back to (‘best day baseline’), and be ready for therapeutic intervention if progress plateaus.

You admitted you don’t understand what symptomatic means. That’s fine- no one is born knowing everything. But wouldn’t you like to learn? Don’t just take my word for it. Talk to other people managing the disease. Gather perspectives and make your own conclusion. Take what works and leave the rest.

Not to belabor the point, but professionals including vets can miss the signs of KS in horses. You have three people (that I saw) in this thread sharing that experience. It happens sometimes. It doesn’t mean it happens all the time, and it isn’t a personal dig at your vet.

Giving professionals the benefit of the doubt: a jog down asphalt or a quick spin on the lunge is not a challenging ask especially for a horse who isn’t limping. Many KS horses will look fine doing that. It tends to be more obvious observed over a series of days/weeks, because like any other chronic disease, they have good and bad days. That’s why you have so many people reporting their vets missed it. And frankly, I also see that sometimes those reports come from people who weren’t interested in pursuing $$$ diagnostics but wanted an answer. Like the angry Yelp reviews you see at small vet hospitals.

The suggestion only vets can observe lameness or patterns is, well, you know. They teach children in Pony Club how to spot a lameness and figure out which leg it is, it’s one part of the huge tool kit that is good animal husbandry.

KS symptoms aren’t only behavioral (bolt/buck/be difficult to ride). We now know that there are many more clinical symptoms than that, every horse will respond differently to the presence of the disease. Knowing what symptoms to look for as your partner and you progress in your riding journey is just half the battle.

I wish you (and OP) and anyone with KS the best possible outcome, because like I said before, we need more KS success stories. We need more people out there sharing their experience managing the disease and discussing the symptoms, because it is still so misunderstood and receives so much pushback in the horse world. Good luck.

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I definitely appreciate your response and I do agree with your thoughts. I am still befuddled by your definition of symptomatic but I think perhaps have better insight.

To me, my horse is asymptomatic because he is working very well; he has no apparent back pain and he is starting to sit and push in dressage work and his jumping is going great - I have a lot of fun w/ him.

Please correct me if I am wrong but you would consider him symptomatic because I notice if he has 3-4 days off, he is a bit tight and his first work back should be on a lunge line w/ a belly band so he can stretch over this back. He is symptomatic because he hates a loose girth and/or a gel pad because a shifting saddle or movement over his back drives him nuts. Do I have the subtle symptomatic correct? If so, I agree with you. I just don’t think he’s in pain or unhappy as long as I check his required boxes. (he has a really good angry dragon face and will buck quite well if unhappy - he is not afraid to communicate his displeasure)

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If that is what you have noticed is his “tell”, then yes. Like you said, it doesn’t mean he is unrideable, and I’m in full agreement I wouldn’t change what is working for you two. You have a clear program that he is thriving in, and you have a clear sense of his tells.

My current KS horse sounds similar to yours. I’ll add he doesn’t palpate, but he doesn’t like one section of his back being curried. His symptoms are more in the small day to day things - he feels his best at or below 2nd level and Novice jumping height. He’ll do higher if asked, but he gets stressed. He toe drags when tired, and responds positively to twice yearly mesotherapy. Watching him on the ground versus riding him paints a different picture - he does not feel how he looks. His tail is his most obvious clinical tell - he holds it like he is balancing an egg on it any time you do real dressage work. I don’t like how he looks stalled, he does best with 24/7 turnout.

Every horse has different symptoms and tells, absolutely.

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