Updating......Neuter gone wrong. First, internal infection, now again 2 months later.

[Color_of_Light]

Going to vet again in few hours…I rescued my little rescue dog early Oct from a thumbs down dog rescue who didn’t know dog anatomy very well, from their two vets who thought the pics of his crotch looked normal and didn’t know male dog anatomy either. From the first day I got him (Saturday), he didn’t poo or pee normally (like 24 hours passed and nothing came out). Externally, the incision looked normal. Sunday I texted the rescue, inquiring about his potty habits. Monday he started getting really pokey on our walks. Tuesday the swelling appeared and I contacted the rescue again…

I noticed two swollen lumps with a red rash over in groin area on either side of his male parts. Contacted rescue, told them I thought he had inguinal hernia, sent pics to rescue, they sent pics to one of their vets. Vet said that was normal healing for a neuter. No, totally was not. They sent pics to second vet. This one said that swelling was part of the bulbous gland (totally wrong, and swelling was no where near that part of his body). Really turned off by fact that neither dog rescue nor two vets know male dog anatomy, inguinal issues, or post-neuter normalcy.

Even more turned off when rescue said they wouldn’t pay for diagnostics (for their botched neuter 4 days prior), and if I thought I had a sick dog, I could return him for a full refund.??? I immediately took him to the vet. His little bottom and boy parts were so sore, no wonder he couldn’t poop or pee! I got the inguinal part right…those lumps were inguinal lymph nodes swollen from some internal infection. Antibiotics and pain killers fixed the problem.

Now, suddenly last night (2.5 months after neuter), I noticed he was licking his crotch. I looked and there is a black stitch embedded in his healed incision that is boiling to the surface and there is oozing! Those inguinal nodes are again swollen…infection again. He is mopey, obviously not feeling well. Poo and pee activity isn’t normal again. Going to the vet shortly. Probably more than the $200 paid for first vetting

What is going on here?? His body is rejecting this un desolvable stitch. Shouldn’t they have used desolvable stitches? Will they have to open up his neuter to remove these stitches?

Would you do anything in terms of how the rescue handled this and the fact that you spent around $200 the first vetting 4 days after adoption and now dog is sick over 2 months later from a bad neuter?

MORE DETAILS…I met him the day before the neuter. He had two fully developed and fully dropped testicles. I felt them to make sure.

I call this a bad or botched neuter because he had not one but two complications following a rather routine surgery…poor little guy. (I realize some individuals can have probs). I have neutered mature dogs before without problem. When I picked him up 2.5 days after surgery, he had a healing incision with no sutures visible. He was never given antibiotics or pain killer post surgery. They did not give me an e-collar. He was not licking the incision then either. As hopoe says, it’s a mid line incision over the penis shaft. About 1". He is 9.8lbs. He is left with a sad little deflated sack. (better left with empty little sad sack, than what was in there).

The foster home had him for a few days before I met him, brought him in so I could meet him, and had him after surgery until I got him a few days later. He only poo’d and peed about once a day from the moment I got him. He was eating and drinking pretty normally, things just weren’t coming out…probably hurt. I contacted the rescue right away, asking them to find out what his normal poo and pee routine was. I was informed that I was probably just missing when he was going. Not possible. He was never out of my sight nor once left alone.

I agree about diagnosing by pics…can’t believe they said he was normal. The pics sent to rescue were crystal clear and anyone familiar with male dog anatomy could tell what was what, and where there was a problem. The two thumb sized swellings (inguinal lymph nodes) in his groin looked like hernias and had a rash or bruising over them, and stood out like a…thumb. They are not located along the shaft of his penis, which is where the bulbous gland is located (it’s that roundish/bulbous swelling that suddenly appears when the dog need to pee or when penis is erect…in case anyone reading doesn’t know).

1st complication started when I got him 2.5 days after neuter…above details. The external incision looked like healing normally, but some sort of internal infection leading to hugely swollen inguinal lymph nodes, inability to urinate and defecate normally, painful when walking, pokey and mopey…Vet gave him clavamox and rimadyl. At this time, the infection was internal, with no sign of suture issues. Vet thought possible unsanitary neuter, or he was sick prior to neuter and should not have been neutered at that time. Hard to say. I did not expect to end up with a sick dog from a little neuter, hence botched up neuter (neuter that didn’t go as most neuters do…without a problem).

UPDATE…

2nd complication…after 2.5 months of acting totally normal, incision looking totally normal…suddenly not feeling well, mopey, sleeping a lot, appetite down, not drinking much, pooping and peeing less, sudden sharp pains (suddenly tucks tail, runs forward) or discomfort…visible black stitch suddenly appeared in healed incision leading to licking raw spot.

Vet could not see/find stitch. He either dislodged it or its still in there. Inguinal lymphs are a bit swollen, not huge like before. This time he is acting much sicker. Ran new blood work. Strange, just like previous blood work 2.5 months ago, all those symptoms, but normal blood work. Curious what it would be when he is healthy and feeling normal. Put on 14 days clavamox, 5 days rimadyl. Considering ultrasound, but not jumping to that right now. No visible abdominal swelling.

[Beckham03]

So, this is a male dog who had two dropped testicals removed? I’m a little confused by your description. There usually isn’t a large incision or internal sutures unless this was a crypt orchid?

[horsenut_8700]

I’ve never seen a dog neuter without sutures. While they did not handle the initial infection/inflammation well, reaction to suture is common and not necessarily something they did wrong.

[hoopoe]

sounds like he is spitting suture. It can happen with absorbable suture as well as non.

The original situation could have been an overwhelming reaction to suture material It happens, thankfully rare

You need a new / your vet to get involved. It might be beyond their ability and possibly a surgeon needs to consult

and unfortunately , in the future, if the dog needs surgery you are going to have to remember this episode and mention that he is potentially hypersensitive to suture.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Beckham03;8430985]
So, this is a male dog who had two dropped testicals removed? I’m a little confused by your description. There usually isn’t a large incision or internal sutures unless this was a crypt orchid?[/QUOTE]

Depends on the vet, and maybe the age at which it was neutered - my old dog (14 1/2) was neutered at 15 months and all the sutures were internal. I don’t know whether that was more because he was mature, or just the vet’s preference; I recall that the vet preferred it because it was less likely to cause licking/chewing, so dogs tended to leave it alone. I don’t think we even had a cone on him; but I might have forgotten it was so long ago.

I was also confused about the OP’s description - two swollen lumps with a red rash over in groin area on either side of his male parts…I assume on both sides of his penis? This is definitely the kind of situation where it’s better to be explicit than polite - I thought by “bits” she meant testicles, which…should be gone…so I was confused.

[arapaloosa_lady]

Why do you assume the surgery was botched? Surgical infection can occur even with all the best precautions.

Yes, diagnosing via cell phone pictures is terrible. Which is an error on the part of the shelter for allowing that interaction to even take place.

And the rate of suture dissolving varies according to what was used. Not surprising there is a remnant a few months later. And yes, dogs can react to suture material (as can any other species).

Taking good care of your animals is expensive!

[hoopoe]

the typical neuter I always saw ( multiple DVMs over 20 years) was a mid line incision on the shaft right in front of the scrotum The testicles are brought forward and excised via the centerline cut. Typically the incision ( small) was closed with a buried suture line.

[Beckham03]

[QUOTE=hoopoe;8431321]
the typical neuter I always saw ( multiple DVMs over 20 years) was a mid line incision on the shaft right in front of the scrotum The testicles are brought forward and excised via the centerline cut. Typically the incision ( small) was closed with a buried suture line.[/QUOTE]

Thanks:) I think the description threw me off. This is what I am used to.

Infections/reactions can happen all the time. All bodies react differently. A botched neuter is when they clip a ureter. Have sadly seen it.

[Horsegal984]

This most recent “problem” sounds like a pretty normal suture reaction to me. It’s also not safe to assume that just because there is still a suture knot there that the wrong suture was used, some take months to fully dissolve.

I’m sorry you had such a bad experience the first time, but I too agree that they shouldn’t have been asking vets for diagnosis based on some cell phone photos. It’s just too difficult to make anything out well in them, and based on your first description I thought bulbous glands as well. Did they send you home with an E-Collar?

[Color_of_Light]

[QUOTE=Beckham03;8430985]
So, this is a male dog who had two dropped testicals removed? I’m a little confused by your description. There usually isn’t a large incision or internal sutures unless this was a crypt orchid?[/QUOTE]

Hi. Yes. I met him the day before neuter. Two fully formed, dropped testicals. I felt them. :o

[Color_of_Light]

[QUOTE=arapaloosa_lady;8431318]
Why do you assume the surgery was botched? Surgical infection can occur even with all the best precautions.

Yes, diagnosing via cell phone pictures is terrible. Which is an error on the part of the shelter for allowing that interaction to even take place.

And the rate of suture dissolving varies according to what was used. Not surprising there is a remnant a few months later. And yes, dogs can react to suture material (as can any other species).

Taking good care of your animals is expensive![/QUOTE]

Surgical infection 2.5 months later? No external sutures when I picked him up 2 1/2 days after neuter. But did not look like he had sutures that had been removed either (you know how that looks…you can see where sutures were).

[Color_of_Light]

[QUOTE=Beckham03;8431482]
Thanks:) I think the description threw me off. This is what I am used to.

Infections/reactions can happen all the time. All bodies react differently. A botched neuter is when they clip a ureter. Have sadly seen it.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Latest complication is 2 1/2 months after first.

[Color_of_Light]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8431951]
This most recent “problem” sounds like a pretty normal suture reaction to me. It’s also not safe to assume that just because there is still a suture knot there that the wrong suture was used, some take months to fully dissolve.

I’m sorry you had such a bad experience the first time, but I too agree that they shouldn’t have been asking vets for diagnosis based on some cell phone photos. It’s just too difficult to make anything out well in them, and based on your first description I thought bulbous glands as well. Did they send you home with an E-Collar?[/QUOTE]

But normal over two months after surgery, healthy dog, healed incision?

[Beethoven]

[QUOTE=Color of Light;8433058]
But normal over two months after surgery, healthy dog, healed incision?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, the sutures take longer to absorb than you would think. I would also suspect the original “infection” was also a suture reaction. We do not put external stitches on most of our routine surgeries, but rather close with an intradermal pattern and a little skin glue overtop if necessary. At my practice, we spray silver spray over the suture line and send the animal home with a cone. If they come back with a incision issue and there is no silver spray than we know that they have allowed the animal to lick the incision.

We recently had a spay done by our most senior veterinarian who ended up going to the e-clinic a couple days later to get the skin incision fixed as the dog had a suture reaction and it came apart. The e-clinic used a different suture to close the incision and placed her on antibotics. Everything healed beautifully from there and the sutures were removed. The dog came in two days later with a little gap in the suture line at the skin again which is likely a reaction to the suture that is still in the subcutaneous layer and perhaps even the body wall. Thankfully it was a small section, so I opted to place the puppy on a different antibiotic and let it heal by second intention as clearly this poor girl is very sensitive to suture.

Unfortunately these things happen even when everything is done properly. The link above is to a chart showing you how long it takes common sutures to dissolve.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=Color of Light;8433058]
But normal over two months after surgery, healthy dog, healed incision?[/QUOTE]

Yup. I would say most suture reactions seem to occur as the suture is breaking down. But the opening up again and the knot protruding sounds like instead of “absorbing” the suture his body is trying to push it out like a foreign body. Typically when I see that happening is about 2-3 months after the surgery.

[Color_of_Light]

[QUOTE=hoopoe;8431321]
the typical neuter I always saw ( multiple DVMs over 20 years) was a mid line incision on the shaft right in front of the scrotum The testicles are brought forward and excised via the centerline cut. Typically the incision ( small) was closed with a buried suture line.[/QUOTE]

How I imagined it but never asked. Thank you for explaining.

[Color_of_Light]

[QUOTE=Beethoven;8433102]
Absolutely, the sutures take longer to absorb than you would think. I would also suspect the original “infection” was also a suture reaction. We do not put external stitches on most of our routine surgeries, but rather close with an intradermal pattern and a little skin glue overtop if necessary. At my practice, we spray silver spray over the suture line and send the animal home with a cone. If they come back with a incision issue and there is no silver spray than we know that they have allowed the animal to lick the incision.

We recently had a spay done by our most senior veterinarian who ended up going to the e-clinic a couple days later to get the skin incision fixed as the dog had a suture reaction and it came apart. The e-clinic used a different suture to close the incision and placed her on antibotics. Everything healed beautifully from there and the sutures were removed. The dog came in two days later with a little gap in the suture line at the skin again which is likely a reaction to the suture that is still in the subcutaneous layer and perhaps even the body wall. Thankfully it was a small section, so I opted to place the puppy on a different antibiotic and let it heal by second intention as clearly this poor girl is very sensitive to suture.

Unfortunately these things happen even when everything is done properly. The link above is to a chart showing you how long it takes common sutures to dissolve.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Interesting and good to know.

[Color_of_Light]

@Beethoven;8433102

Absolutely, the sutures take longer to absorb If they come back with a incision issue and there is no silver spray than we know that they have allowed the animal to lick the incision.

I figured dogs should be deterred from licking. All my other neuters have been. They said he never had an e-collar, so maybe was allowed to lick incision, maybe germs got inside, then it closed off?

[Color_of_Light]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8433143]
Yup. I would say most suture reactions seem to occur as the suture is breaking down. But the opening up again and the knot protruding sounds like instead of “absorbing” the suture his body is trying to push it out like a foreign body. Typically when I see that happening is about 2-3 months after the surgery.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Wonder what is rate of suture rejection?

[NorCalDressage]

[QUOTE=Color of Light;8433160]
Thank you. Wonder what is rate of suture rejection?[/QUOTE]

Don’t know how often, but did have a dissolve-able suture reaction in one of mine after a mass removal on her leg. Although it was a little over a month after surgery that we noticed the issue.

She got her external stitches removed at 2 weeks, then about 3 weeks after that had 2 spots where a small amount of fluid accumulated and the skin thinned out and eventually opened up a hole and bled some. Diagnosed as reaction to the dissolve-able sutures. Everything should have been absorbed by then, but I gather it’s fairly common. The rest of the site was pretty healed by then so they opened the problem areas up a little - looked for non-absorbed stitches and cleaned it up and on we went. Went fine after that.

Good luck with your boy!