http://www.aspca.org/animal-homelessness/shelter-intake-and-surrender/pet-statistics
The numbers. These are just for shelters and does not include dogs and cats in private rescue. Perhaps things are a bit better than they used to be but still far too many to be hapy about. Interesting at end of article that reason for giving up animals was places to live not accepting them a very high number.
As I said. Those numbers indicate, after you take into account the number of dogs adopted or returned to their owners, around 2 percent of pet dogs in shelters.
Other sites estimate a higher number of pet dogs so percentage goes down a bit.
Again, I understand that due to size of the US and number of people, there are large numbers of dogs in shelters. But putting those numbers in perspective is also useful.
The number of unwanted dogs meet demand of people wanting dogs as pets . The vast majority of pet dogs are not in shelters which I take to mean the vast majority of dog owners are decent people and pet owners.
Maybe it is possible to promote rescue and acknowledge the awesome range of dog breeds, accept people have different priorities than you and can still be good people and pet owners. That perhaps breeders and breed enthusiasts can be advocates and actually contribute to many advances in veterinary care and other advances that increase the quality of life for all pets no matter their background. That what seem like simple solutions can result in unintended consequences.
cbv I don’t know where you live in the rural south but it is horrendous where I live. I cannot tell you how many dogs I have picked up over the years and rehomed, it is only within the last several years that I have purposely worked with rescues as a foster, previously I just picked them up and vetted and rehomed them or had them euthanized for medical/behavior issues (one PB I found was human aggressive, I had him euthanized). There are strays, there are packs of feral dogs, there are wandering animals who have owners but are let loose to do what they please, often getting hit and killed unless I happen upon them first. Just in a year I picked up one full GSD and had one wander through our farm but would not come near. Had a full Great Dane get hit and killed just down the road a couple of years ago. One road I picked up a total of 6 dogs over a few years, one who has stayed with me Roger
https://www.facebook.com/347546461986279/photos/pb.347546461986279.-2207520000.1460851932./607035932703996/?type=3&theater who was 9 weeks old when I found him and another lab/hound mix Hank who is the best farm dog ever that was found with a Aussie mix who was pregnant ended up with 2 pups. (she found a home and her puppies Hank stayed here)
Our shelters (if the counties have them, ours does not) are full to overflowing. South Carolina and North Carolina and TN I know are just as bad. Even ATL have overflowing shelters and the rural ones who don’t have much exposure rarely make it out alive. The tech who works for my small animal vet pulled a full Great Dane half grown puppy from a rural shelter who was owner surrender because she had grown too big!
Go read Little Boy Blue, it will open your eyes about rural south. I want to live where you do if you do not have strays or wandering dogs like I do! I have to often just shut my eyes because I am full up, though I have been known to make room when I have to!
I don’t have a problem with people buying a particular breed at all, never have. That is their choice their money as long as they are responsible breeders. For example one of my farriers bred APBT and Staffies, he maybe had one litter a year and he required the puppies to be titled in something when they were sold, often he would retain half ownership until they did. His dogs were multi titled and conformation champions. That is a good breeder. On the other end of the spectrum is the labradoodle breeder that a friend has bought two dogs from to the tune of $5000, who has 17 litters a year. Yes 17. That is a puppy mill regardless of how well cared for (and they are well cared for) the dogs/puppies are. She also does the guardian dog deal, ugh.
So okay we put the numbers in perspective and it STILL is millions of animals dogs euthanize d each year. The 2% counts only dogs n shelters and does not include dogs in rescue, dogs in fight rings, dogs that live on the streets, dogs living in neglect etc. Add all those in and maybe it is 4% of pets .
Whatever the percent is, it’s hard to feel good about the sheer volume of animal in bad situations. Just seems like a way to rationalize not making changes to a system that frankly stinks.
I give. Believe what you will.
But at least I try to provide some data.
Countrywood, you onetime quoted some stats like one out of three puppies were surrendered. It is what made me look for actual data. I asked where you got your data and you admitted someone mentioned it, no source. You spew a lot of stats with no source.
My only argument is you do no service to your cause.
Khall, I am sorry you feel as you do. I suspect many people where you live also live below the poverty level and I wish they had advocates like you.
None of that changes the fact that even in the worst case scenario 90 percent of dogs are not in shelters. 70,000,000 minus 3,900,000 (worse case) is 66,100,000 pet dogs not in shelters.
People can spend their money -and/or their time in case of rescue work-however they want and get whatever kind of dog that they want, it doesn’t matter to me. It really doesn’t. What bothers me is rescue people insisting that I MUST “rescue” a dog and not buy a puppy–and that buying a puppy is somehow contributing to pet overpopulation. If the problem is largely confined to the rural south, and I live in the urban east, how is it a problem-contributing to pet overpopulation- if I, or anyone like me obviously, buys a puppy? It’s not. There is no specifically-bred pet over population. People need to keep breeding dogs. We do need more specifically bred dogs. What we don’t need is more pit bulls and random hound/lab/chow mixes.
Countrywood, you onetime quoted some stats like one out of three puppies were surrendered. It is what made me look for actual data. I asked where you got your data and you admitted someone mentioned it, no source. You spew a lot of stats with no source
I do not recall ever saying that was a statistic. I posted what a dog trainer told the class, that half the puppies in the class will no longer be with their owners in two years. I appreciate your perspective and the point you are trying to make.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8623960]
People can spend their money -and/or their time in case of rescue work-however they want and get whatever kind of dog that they want, it doesn’t matter to me. It really doesn’t. What bothers me is rescue people insisting that I MUST “rescue” a dog and not buy a puppy–and that buying a puppy is somehow contributing to pet overpopulation. If the problem is largely confined to the rural south, and I live in the urban east, how is it a problem-contributing to pet overpopulation- if I, or anyone like me obviously, buys a puppy? It’s not. There is no specifically-bred pet over population. People need to keep breeding dogs. We do need more specifically bred dogs. What we don’t need is more pit bulls and random hound/lab/chow mixes.[/QUOTE]
This is a really big step back from your numerous comments about rescues selling puppies, not to mention some colorful accusations about rescues and the types of dogs they adopt out.
I am not trying to get personal here, but it’s hard for me to believe that you are making a negative statement about adopting “random” mixes when you yourself purchased one. I feel the same way about the breed cross that you currently own as you do about pit bulls and random hound/lab/chow mixes - that they can be time bombs waiting to go off and that we don’t need more of them. What is even wilder to me is that you actually paid into a system that will result in the breeder continuing to breed that cross, vs. when rescuing you are just trying to deal with the dogs that are already on the ground.
I fundamentally disagree that we should be encouraging people to experiment with crossing different breeds in their backyards. Do you know where all of your dog’s littermates are? Where all of the puppies from the litters that came before him and after him went? Because let me tell you, I see a TON of that type of dog in rescue.
None of this has anything to do with your dog personally. He sounds like a doll. I just don’t think he has any more right to exist any more than my street mutt does. (Though for our sakes I’m glad they both do!)
Sswor, I have never said here or IRL that anyone must adopt a rescue and not buy a whatever bred dog they prefer. Never will. What has been in the past the perception of shelter dogs as less than one bought with some sort of papers with it. That is false in many ways considering 1. there are often purebred dogs available in shelters, usually not with papers though 2. many times people buy from pet stores that are selling puppy mill dogs, even if they come with “papers” with many health issues with such puppies 3. there are SO many wonderful dogs, even pit bull types, that are available for adoption and make wonderful family pets, which is what most families want 4. I have a REAL PROBLEM with the designer dog craze and the suckers who are paying big $ for mutts, 17 litters a year for one labradoodle breeder is ridiculous and just for profit not about the “breed” 5. I have a REAL PROBLEM with BYB who are not looking to improve their chosen breed, instead just breeding for $ regardless of what they are breeding
I do not have an issue with breeders who are thoughtful and conscientious about their litter production. Do I agree with some of what I see in the show conformation rings? No, case in point GSDs, awful.
Sswor, actually yes there are specifically bred over population: chihuahuas
http://www.examiner.com/article/chihuahuas-why-a-much-loved-breed-has-such-a-high-shelter-kill-rate
and of course the pit bulls http://www.examiner.com/article/pit-bulls-and-euthanasia-rates
cbv, here are some stats for you https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-animal-homelessness
That is JUST the animals that are accounted for, take a look at the potential numbers that may be out there, especially cats. There are so many dumping grounds where pets are set out to fend for themselves, take a look at street dogs in Houston TX or south FL where when people are turned away from Miami Dade shelter they go to dump their dogs. I know locally people dump their unwanted animals ALL THE TIME. The most I have picked up at one go around was 4, momma and two pups and a hanger on spaniel X neutered male, no tags no chip on a busy road.
To me it is about education, so many people do not know what goes on in shelters or that dogs are put out or left behind when families move. Or any idea the problems with dog fighting and all it entails. It is like they have blinders on. So I am happy when adopt don’t shop is making progress, it is educating the general public that shelter dogs make great pets. I do not see it ever stopping good breeders producing healthy viable dogs for show, work and competition. Here is the exceptions to the spay neuter law put into place fairly locally to me. “wrote several exceptions into the law, such as show dogs or hunting dogs. Owners who do not meet the exception, but still do not want to spay or neuter can pay an annual permit and licensing fee.”
By giving the breeder an outlet for their excess, using your own logic, you-“rescuer” too are encouraging pet overpopulation. Prior to the era of rescue organizations on every street corner, dogs that “wo[uld]n’t hunt” were culled. Now the breeder just dumps them on you-“rescue”. Ok for you-“rescuer” to do so since you’re just “dealing” with dogs “already on the ground” to “rescue” the dog but not ok for someone to buy a puppy “already on the ground” and give it a proper home for life. I disagree that the issue is a black/white clear cut as that. I’d be willing to bet at least some of the breeders of these hunting dogs you talk about getting so many of-- would be less likely to keep mass producing litters if they had to personally “euthanize” each and every unwanted rather then just drop them in your lap. I don’t think these people should drown their puppies rather then you-“rescue” existing, but this is the logic you use against people who buy puppies to paint them as bad and contributing to the problem. It seems that only “rescue” people are allowed to feel good about “dealing with dogs already on the ground”, rather then guilty as contributing to pet overpopulation.
There is such a “thing” as a farm ratter. They are purposely crossbred(usually) dogs used as vermin control on small, working farms. Farmers have been breeding farm ratters long before Jack Russel was even born and will continue to breed farm ratters whether or not I buy one once every 5 years or so for an agility dog. Surely you understand that. As hard as you try to make me out the villain on these threads, you are barking up the wrong tree.
[QUOTE=french fry;8624004]I fundamentally disagree that we should be encouraging people to experiment with crossing different breeds in their backyards.
[/quote]
Fundamentally disagree with who?
[QUOTE=french fry;8624004]Do you know where all of your dog’s littermates are? Where all of the puppies from the litters that came before him and after him went? Because let me tell you, I see a TON of that type of dog in rescue.
[/QUOTE]Probably on a farm killing rats somewhere. Or someone else’s constant companion. But no, I don’t really know. How does that make me a bad dog owner?
Regarding the “TON”, do you DNA test all your “rescue” dogs? Not every small, spotted terrier is the same. Just because it’s the right color and size, doesn’t mean it’s the right dog. Or the right age, and no, you don’t get to determine what’s “right” for me or anyone else when it comes to dogs. You get to determine that for yourself.
Again, hooray for all you do in “rescue”. I respect your efforts to live a good life. I’m being 100% sincere. I ask for the same from you in return. Please discontinue painting me as your arch nemesis. I am not the problem that you so passionately seek to correct.
I don’t agree that rescue enable breeders. Most rescues are filled with adult dogs, not puppies. There are some puppies at rescue, but shelters are filled with puppies and dogs. If all rescues closed tomorrow, the breeders would just dump unsold puppies at shelters.
Breeders , except for a few show folk, do it for one reason: PROFIT. So if people did not buy puppies from them, they would make no profit, and have no more reason to breed. It’s that simple.
Which is not meant to indict any individual for buying a puppy instead of adopting an adult dog. But the culprit and what needs to be addressed is the breeding. Making two hundred dollars from a litter is enough to encourage some to go right back and breed another. If they dumped or drowned 3 and made $200 off 2 sold, they have incentive to breed again.
All the the grown dogs in shelters and rescues were puppies not too long ago, often purchased from puppy mills disusing it with ads on CL as families with one litter, or sold out of pet shops. No matter how one looks at it, over breeding is a continual problem.
The rescues that I know of who take puppies they offer to spay the mother to the puppies to stop the cycle.
I don’t even have an issue for cross breeding dogs for certain reasons, for example I know some agility people were cross breeding greyhounds with border collies for faster agility dog. I do have a problem when they are cross breeding just for the next designer dog craze. Ever heard of a pomski? or chi-weenie? or any other number of crossings that are just for hoping to hit the next craze. Reminds me of the Arabian market many years ago when they were cross breeding Arabs to so many just to capitalize on the Arabian market. That sure worked out well didn’t it?
[QUOTE=pezk;8622807]
Oh nonsense! The only people that are going to be hurt are the responsible ones. No matter how many laws you pass, you are not going to stop the breeding by people who have fighting dogs, or don’t license their dogs, etc.[/QUOTE]
Yep. For a lot of small-numbers breeds, it’s already expensive to produce puppies and a wait for one can be months or years. The pups are already four figures. Even high-quality “backyard bred” (ie non-pro owners who own one bitch and breed a litter) purebreds are expensive. Throw in a four-figure annual fee? You just jacked up the price of thoughtfully-bred show and pet quality animals, and you won’t see any slowdown in peekamaltacockapoos and bull-terrier-god-knows-what-it-really-is mixes and oops litters. I cannot think of any jurisdiction I’ve ever lived in that has the kind of AC resources that would be required to hunt down every single unlicensed, unspayed, unneutered dog (and I promise if there is one, that will lead to those dogs winding up in the shelters in most cases as the owners don’t come up with the fees and fines.)
And I’ve been tempted by some long-distance save the dog ads, but honestly, if I don’t want to wait for a registered puppy (that’s about the only way to get Skye Terriers as they have very low numbers) then I can go to county animal control and get something for $50 that’ll do if I just want A Dog. Sorry there are so many dogs in need in NY/CA/TX/wherever but that’s a long way to go for a dog of dubious origins.
I will say, though, that response from the Maltese rescue the OP got? Uh…that would be one going on my no-give list if they’re going to come cross that snippy and snide to someone clearly concerned about dogs of their breed. #BadService right there. Bless their hearts indeed.
Throw in a four-figure annual fee?
I never envisioned a breeding license to be a four figure fee. Though if it were four figures it sure would knock out the byb.
Perhaps a license fee of $100-$200, which a professional breeder can absorb. If that amount kills it for a byb, good, we don’t need any more of them.
A moderate license fee would not kill puppy mills either because they can afford it. But the TERMS of the license might make a serious dent in puppy mills. Such as , no breeder can breed more than 4 litters a year without a verifiable WAIT LIST of people who have put down deposits and plan to get dogs. (which is how the pros/“good breeders” operate). Or limit number of dogs bred etc. A solution or combination of solutions is out there. It’s not sending a man into space or curing a plague, surely people can come up with something that works.
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