US Eventing….crickets?

[Ajierene]

@Jealoushe

aside from horrible hunter practices, why would you want this for XC?

I’ve seen it don cross country schooling, especially for horses not far from their race days. It takes the edge off so the rider can focus on introducing the horse to cross country jumps rather than dealing with them losing their minds with all the horses running around.

It is also used in some horses for the first few rides, even in an indoor, for the same reason.

It is used in some horses in the winter when even though they are on 24/7 turnout, they aren’t moving much and snow/ice sliding off the roof of the indoor is scary, etc.

Some racehorses get it when training because they get to wild but on race day, they don’t but they are more focused on getting to the head of the pack - rather than training days where they aren’t running in a group like that.

Some fox hunters get it before fox hunting day so they aren’t to wild.

I used to be more against ace (which is what I’m used to using) for riding until I started encountering some of the above scenarios and found it really did allow for training progression a lot better/quicker than not having it. I would not offer it as a blanket solution but do see some benefits now, for certain horses.

[Jealoushe]

@Ajierene

I’ve seen it don cross country schooling, especially for horses not far from their race days. It takes the edge off so the rider can focus on introducing the horse to cross country jumps rather than dealing with them losing their minds with all the horses running around.

It is also used in some horses for the first few rides, even in an indoor, for the same reason.

It is used in some horses in the winter when even though they are on 24/7 turnout, they aren’t moving much and snow/ice sliding off the roof of the indoor is scary, etc.

Some racehorses get it when training because they get to wild but on race day, they don’t but they are more focused on getting to the head of the pack - rather than training days where they aren’t running in a group like that.

Some fox hunters get it before fox hunting day so they aren’t to wild.

I used to be more against ace (which is what I’m used to using) for riding until I started encountering some of the above scenarios and found it really did allow for training progression a lot better/quicker than not having it. I would not offer it as a blanket solution but do see some benefits now, for certain horses.

wow, that’s disgusting. This isn’t a tangent towards you…just drugging in general. If your horse needs drugs to go XC schooling or to a show, then do more homework. I can not accept people drugging their horses so they can ride/compete/go off property by making their horse under the influence. It’s cruel and unnecessary. Talk about horsemanship problems in eventing. No wonder Im no expert rider and have all off the track horses, young and hot and I have never needed to do anything of the sort. People are so selfish. Spend time training and preparing your horse maybe. I can’t believe that people would suggest this so they can have a better/quicker training progression. Don’t believe that for a second. What a way to connect and help your horse understand the questions at hand. Unbelievable

[SusanO]

To me it sounds suicidal. I can’t even imagine jumping at speed over immoveable large objects on a horse that does not have all of its mental faculties present. Ace is bad enough but dorm??? It is fine for shoeing with a problem horse but for riding? And more so jumping? Incredibly stupid in my book! OK I am chicken but if I am jumping that stuff I want the horse to be fully aware of its body and not have its reaction times slowed down.

I also don’t believe all horses can be “fixed” for certain jobs. Sure they might be able to cope physically but mentally they can’t handle it. You can go back to basics and teach slowly but there are still some that will never be able to mentally cope. Better to realize this and not risk human and equine lives. DUMB!

[Sticky_Situation]

I can get behind using sedation in a horse that is supposed to be rehabbing from an injury and is expected to quietly walk with a rider despite not having been allowed turnout for weeks/months, but I certainly don’t want to be riding a horse over jumps when he’s under the influence!

I can understand the motivation to use sedatives when you have overhorsed amateurs, but it seems hard to believe that our best event riders in the country need calming drugs to ride their horses.

I’ll think personally I’ll stick to living somewhere with enough open space to allow for regular turnout, and trying to own horses within my skill level.

[Xctrygirl]

I should mention that one of my former employers wanted me to hunt the 18 h irish horse on 5cc (yes, 5) of Ace.

Thankfully I was the one that did the injecting most of the time, so “want” and ‘got’ were very different things. When she rode him though he did hunt with that much.

And there are MANY many people who think Ace should be allowed at shows. Tommy Serio’s wife I think did a whole thing about that. I recall they had the idea for a show for Tb’s where they would be allowed to have Ace. The Tb sport world blew up on them, HARD.

That was I think 2-3 years ago.

Em

[Jealoushe]

Yeah, there was someone - possibly that person - on a podcast last year saying why it would be better to allow drugs so horses didn’t get lunged so much.

Maybe ya know, ride suitable horses? Or learn to ride? But I digress…lol

[hoopoe]

@Jealoushe

Maybe ya know, ride suitable horses? Or learn to ride? But I digress…lol

or perhaps change the judging standard ( hunters) away from brain dead clunking horses over fences. Go back to where a horse should be an alert, thinking partner

[Larksmom]

Am I wrong in thinking that eventing horses are supposed to be not drugged? What am I missing? Granted, I only ever rode at the lowest levels, but all the drugging of hunters and brain dead horses turned me off them. Now is it really common to drug UL horses in eventing?

[Janet]

USEF has FINALLY done something. They have appointed an Interim (through Sept 30 2022) Chef d’Equipe: Bobby Costello.

[Trak_Eventer]

US Equestrian Announces Robert (Bobby) Costello as Interim Chef d’Equipe -...

[lizloveshorses]

I’m behind the times - what video does he reference in the beginning?

[Jealoushe]

Oops! Mark Todd cruelty

The video of Sir Mark Todd whipping a horse resisting water has resurfaced.

[AMWookey]

Fun fact about Bobby…he still volunteers. On our war horse weekends when he doesn’t have riders competing, and even during some recognized events, you will see him jump judging or doing warm up.

It will probably change a bit now, but he also teaches the pony clubs in the area for clinics, and has always just been a simple phone call to have a lesson with him. In the 4 years I have known him, he has always been one of the most down to earth and genuinely friendly people we have met in the eventing community.

[2bayboys]

Not being snarky, but why is giving Ace or dorm “fine for shoeing”? Why can’t the horse just be taught to accept and cooperate with a procedure that is required monthly for the entire duration of its life? It’s poor horsemanship to sedate for riding but it’s not poor horsemanship to fail to train the horse to have basic life skills? Not understanding that logic at all.

[luckycricket123]

You didn’t ask me but I’ll answer. Because a horse NEEDS to have it’s feet cared for for it’s own health and safety. Not to mention the one at risk is probably your farrier not you if the horse acts up.

I have a hard time believing that a horse NEEDS to be out jumping XC jumps the same way.

Also just want to note that this argument might be better suited for a different thread. There’s just no evidence showing that anyone involved in US Eventing is drugging their horses to school or that that had anything to do with the recent upheaval.

I know it’s a discussion board for discussion but drug accusations (without a shred of evidence) are very damaging to a reputation and I think its in bad taste to discuss so openly based on no evidence.

If you want to continue the debate about when it’s appropriate to drug a horse I think it would be better suited for it’s own thread

[trakehners]

We’ve used dorm on two horses in our barn for shoeing per our vet’s recommendation. One is mine, who got a small dose for the first year he was with me because he was three years old, 17hh, and absolutely lacking in the patience required to get through a full farrier visit—he is now coming six, has not needed or been given it in going on two years, and will stand for the farrier for as long as required. The alternative was to use a chain on him, use a twitch on him, or something of the sort, and I am just… not a big fan of that, because I’ve worked with enough horses traumatized by those things and it was vastly preferable to get him through his impatient stage calmly with a little bit of help so that he can now stand for as long as I need him to without any force required.

There is another horse who gets it because she evidently had a traumatic experience with the farrier at her previous home and will get so worked up as to be dangerous to herself, our farrier, and the person handling her without it (we are talking literally got loose during a farrier visit, reared, and hit her head off a doorframe at one point prior to our vet suggesting that dorm might be the right move). They are now working on weaning her off of it as she has gotten comfortable with our farrier and is less likely to have a panic response, and she has actually gone without it the last couple of visits. She’s an incredibly sweet mare when she’s comfortable with you, but whatever happened to her in her past life has also made her very anxious and it was a long road just getting her to the point where she could be safely led by someone other than her owner and the owner of my barn.

I am firmly in agreement that horses should be properly trained and have manners, but when it comes to groundwork and the choice is between giving a small amount of dorm to create positive experiences in order to successfully wean the horse off of the dorm in the future, and having a horse that gets so worked up that every experience is negative and both the horse and the people around it are in danger… I’ll take the dorm.

[Sticky_Situation]

I’m ok with using sedation for shoeing in the short term to keep the farrier from ending up in the hospital… you can’t just wait to do the horse’s feet until he’s fully trained and polite. It’s not a long term solution, but a way to keep people safe while getting the horse properly cared for.

It isn’t the same situation as using sedation to make your show hunter quiet so he doesn’t play after fences and knock you out of the ribbons.

[skrosenthal]

Exactly. I bought a senior horse, who has been lovingly cared for by several people I know and trust and care deeply about, and when we bought him, they explained that the horse had, apparently, before they got him and before the person before them got him, had some kind of childhood trauma with the farrier and had to be sedated to be shod safely. The horse has beautiful manners on the ground and under saddle and is otherwise a joy to deal with, but I swear to god he sees the farrier’s truck in the driveway or is approached by a vet who wore apron chaps and he comes unglued. The horse is 18 years old, and we are unlikely to solve this problem. Will we try? Sure! Of course we will. But safety matters. This feels to me entirely different than when someone told me, in a previous situation, that I should expect to routinely ace my horse in bad weather.

[Rnichols]

Really curious what people, who are more educated than me, thoughts are on the new interim Chef d’Equipe / Team Manager.

[Blugal]

I’ll jump in with a pretty uninformed point of view.

Bobby Costello seems to be well-liked, and is probably neutral as far as not being a current competitor at the upper levels and not ingrained with any particular clique of ULR/Trainers.

He’s filling an impossible position, for a short term stint, and is likely the choice because he’s willing and inoffensive. Riders can all train with whomever they like until the World Games, and by the time that’s over, TPTB will have picked someone for a longer term.

Best of luck to him.