US Olympic Team and alternates named

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=frugalannie;8733027]
Gnep, this is NOT in response to your very interesting post, which I’m way too tired to appreciate in full after stacking lots of hay.

What I will say is that I live in a part of the country that roots for the Red Sox. No matter how dismal things look. Therefore I quite understand supporting an eventing team that just doesn’t quite gel. Because when you’re surprised it is oh so sweet.:lol:[/QUOTE]

Not to hijack the thread, but the only thing I enjoy more than seeing the RedSox win is seeing the Yankees lose.

[FrittSkritt]

[QUOTE=Divine Comedy;8730258]
I’ll corroborate that, as I trailered in and out of Great Meadow when I competed there last year. Was very grateful to have done so when the tent blew over Saturday night! Stabling is extremely tight and limited there, I’m certain the organizers would be happy to have fewer horses stabled on grounds if they can stable locally.[/QUOTE]

This year they’re requiring all horses to be stabled on the grounds. Not sure if it’s because it’s a Nations Cup, or what…

[flyracing]

[QUOTE=Larksmom;8727810]
but this IS a lot of traveling in a relatively short time. I agree it would mostly affect the training, are they allowed to gallop in quarantine or are they stalled?.[/QUOTE]

Clark won’t be able to gallop glen during quarantine, but since it’s only 42 hour I’m sure they’ll be able to plan the gallop schedule around that.

[SlamDunk]

[QUOTE=flyracing;8734434]
Clark won’t be able to gallop glen during quarantine, but since it’s only 42 hour I’m sure they’ll be able to plan the gallop schedule around that.[/QUOTE]

Since the nation’s cup has other international riders they might have international stabling and Glenn will be able to work during quarantine. For example at Spruce they put all the European horses together but they are still able to show and work in the rings. I’m not sure of the exact rules, perhaps it’s because they aren’t a permanent importation.

[vineyridge]

On the entries list, Great Meadow says Glen will be stabled in the UK International Barn. I’m remembering so I could be misremembering.

[spencergbennett]

[QUOTE=JER;8729339]
But then what is it about a failed/failing program that deserves a deferential attitude? Especially considering that this failed/failing program solicits donations from the grassroots members several times per year. If anyone should be ‘humble’, maybe it’s those passing the hat, spending the cash, and promising great things. :)[/QUOTE]

I just think you have to give a program more than four years before you declare it “failed.” I think that’s one of David’s strengths–he’s operating with a long-term goal in mind. And the incremental changes being made take time to come together and produce big time results. We’ve got huge ground to make up facing such competitive teams, like Germany and Great Britain, and a quick fix isn’t going to cut it.

Thank goodness my coach hasn’t decided I only get 4 years to prove whether or not I’ve failed! :lol::lol::lol:

[spencergbennett]

[QUOTE=JER;8729672]
A lack of success over many years is hardly a ‘snapshot’. Team bronze in Athens was 12 years ago. Maybe your snapshot doesn’t include fiascos like WEG 2014, where the selectors sent two horses that they doubted would get around (both didn’t). I didn’t like hearing that well before WEG – there’s something deeply cynical about that, and it’s also rather ugly in that a less-than-capable horse really shouldn’t be put in that kind of competitive situation.
[/QUOTE].

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=Larksmom;8729473]
well then, short of slipping a mickey into the drinks of the entire German team, and throw in the Kiwis as well, what should we do? Fold our tents and go home? We shouldn’t bother to show up because whatever the reason we just aren’t good enough? Jung isn’t going to switch nationalities. We simply have to go on competing, taking clinics instead of teaching clinics?

I don’t know what we should do, but quitting and going home isn’t really the answer either.[/QUOTE]

Enjoy being there and participating. Show the best sportsmanship; be a team.

All that happy stuff that the uppy-up’s in the sport like to push onto the lower levels. Who actually do it fairly well.

Give it a try, it’s all about attitude and it really is fun.

[LisaB]

I would like to see the stats on our international scores over the past 4 years and compare that to our scores under the CMP regime.
I think we’re sending a ton more over the pond and doing better and better.
And we’ve got a few more riders based in Europe.

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8734644]
On the entries list, Great Meadow says Glen will be stabled in the UK International Barn. I’m remembering so I could be misremembering.[/QUOTE]

Probably to do with the quarantine rules. Horse has UK boogers.

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8734644]
On the entries list, Great Meadow says Glen will be stabled in the UK International Barn. I’m remembering so I could be misremembering.[/QUOTE]

Horse must have UK boogers ! ACTUALLY there is nothing in that box on the entry list. It does say he didn’t send a coggins though !

[JER]

[QUOTE=spencergbennett;8735080]
I just think you have to give a program more than four years before you declare it “failed.” I think that’s one of David’s strengths–he’s operating with a long-term goal in mind. And the incremental changes being made take time to come together and produce big time results. We’ve got huge ground to make up facing such competitive teams, like Germany and Great Britain, and a quick fix isn’t going to cut it.

Thank goodness my coach hasn’t decided I only get 4 years to prove whether or not I’ve failed! :lol::lol::lol:[/QUOTE]

National team coaches – those appointed/hired by an NSF for Olympic sports – don’t usually get ‘more than four years’ to produce positive results. Funding is almost always tied to results, and ‘results’ are objective measures, like ‘two medals at world championships’ or ‘top 10 at worlds’. Athletes have targets, too – like they lose their NOC ‘carding’ or funding status if they don’t make them. We’ve had to plead with our NOC about keeping carding for an athlete who’s finished one place (measured as a couple of seconds, over a full day’s competition) short of her target.

This is a big difference from an individual athlete like yourself who’s paying a coach to help you reach your personal goals. Everyone in sport knows that long-term athlete development in a high-performance program takes more than four years. But once that athlete is in a high performance program, results are expected and you need to be able to demonstrate improvement via results over each year. A full quad is not a ‘quick fix’ in the eyes of sport funding in 95% of the world’s NSFs.

If you read gnep’s post, he very nicely described how Germany went from an eventing also-ran to a powerhouse – specifically, they hired a manager and a coach with a sound plan, which produced steady results, developed younger athletes, and became world-beaters with a full roster of top combos to run at elite competitions.

When I describe US eventing as ‘failed’ or ‘failing’, I’m talking about over the last dozen or so years (although it’s gone on longer than that). There is simply no case to be made for the program being a success.

US eventing supporters appear to have resigned themselves to their fate and seem very willing to accept very little in terms of progress and results. The PROGRAM hasn’t been a success. You can continue with the unconditional love, you can continue to chide those who don’t drink the Kool-Aid, but speaking as someone who keeps a foot in the waters of elite sport where results matter and keep you awake at night, I’m not going there.

[FitToBeTied]

I’ll agree with JER that four years in sports is a long time. It is not like we were forming the jamaican bobsled team here. We had and have established riders who were competing internationally.

So what do people expect the time frame to be? As has been pointed out we are 12 years away from the last team medal?

[Divine_Comedy]

[QUOTE=FitToBeTied;8736244]
I’ll agree with JER that four years in sports is a long time. [/QUOTE]

To some extent though, it’s really not for equestrian and eventing/dressage in particular. Sure, the new coach is working with the riders, but this sport to a strong extent is about having the best horses in the world. Within the four years time frame, we are essentially still working with the same horses we had four years ago for the most part, but they are further along in their training. Still, there is a cap on what they can do and it’s unlikely that most of our current horses can challenge for individual medals. Loughan Glen is the exception, and certainly Mai Baum and RF Scandalous may have had potential to do the same but obviously are out for the year.

Meanwhile, we are hopefully bringing along more talented horses along behind them, but from green to Olympics, that is really an eight year process, not a four year one. Mai Baum is a good example of the rising talent, and Doesn’t Play Fair doesn’t fall far off the mark based off his spring season this year. Both of these horses are essentially just now ‘coming into power’ per se, and both could be major contenders by 2020.

Look at all the press Water Cube is getting. He’s a four year old, just off the track, and the main media outlets keep saying that event though he won’t be ready for Rio, he could be there for Tokyo. The reality is that if the horse becomes an Olympic prospect, it won’t be until 2024, when he’s twelve.

Basically, it’s really more of a six to eight year process to bring a horse from baby to the Olympic levels, even with a pro like Boyd or Phillip. If we’re selecting different horses under the new process and coach (and I do think WEG caused a re-evaluation of the blood we need, so that process could have essentially started over in 2014), we’re really looking at 2020 before we could be a major player on the team front.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=Divine Comedy;8736255]

Basically, it’s really more of a six to eight year process to bring a horse from baby to the Olympic levels, even with a pro like Boyd or Phillip. If we’re selecting different horses under the new process and coach (and I do think WEG caused a re-evaluation of the blood we need, so that process could have essentially started over in 2014), we’re really looking at 2020 before we could be a major player on the team front.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely yes, thank you DC! You saved me a lengthy post.

There is no way you could turn around a program in 4 years given the length of time it takes to select, train, produce event horses (and riders), unless we have the resources to go out and buy all the top event horses in the world.

Our sport is unique in that it involves MANY long term and expensive factors.

[Divine_Comedy]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8736279]

There is no way you could turn around a program in 4 years given the length of time it takes to select, train, produce event horses (and riders), unless we have the resources to go out and buy all the top event horses in the world.[/QUOTE]

And most of the actual top event horses in the world (i.e. the ones who could win individual medals) are not actually for sale, for that matter!

[JER]

Fours years would work like this:

An international horse should be starting at Advanced at age 9. Some go Advanced at 8, some late in their 9 year-old year, but this is a good timeframe for a horse who starts competing at 6.

If you’re the chef at the beginning of the quad, you would identify your international-quality 9/10 year-old Advanced horses, plus your rising talent 8 year-olds. You’ve also got some veterans to track who might be still going strong in four years. Now you’ve got four years to help those combos to reach consistent international results.

Four years is plenty of time. Yes, all sorts of stuff can happen, but the US is a big country and our NSF has resources.

But the US eventing community is acclimated to poor results and excuses. Why? Why do we expect so little? Remember that coach-for-life Mark Phillips was making $250-300k per annum as a part-time coach. Results went into a death spiral. No heads rolled. Anyone who tries to excuse this is delusional and should seek counseling.

[Atwood]

[QUOTE=JER;8736317]
Fours years would work like this:

An international horse should be starting at Advanced at age 9. Some go Advanced at 8, some late in their 9 year-old year, but this is a good timeframe for a horse who starts competing at 6.

If you’re the chef at the beginning of the quad, you would identify your international-quality 9/10 year-old Advanced horses, plus your rising talent 8 year-olds. You’ve also got some veterans to track who might be still going strong in four years. Now you’ve got four years to help those combos to reach consistent international results.

Four years is plenty of time. Yes, all sorts of stuff can happen, but the US is a big country and our NSF has resources.

But the US eventing community is acclimated to poor results and excuses. Why? Why do we expect so little? Remember that coach-for-life Mark Phillips was making $250-300k per annum as a part-time coach. Results went into a death spiral. No heads rolled. Anyone who tries to excuse this is delusional and should seek counseling.[/QUOTE]

I agree - sadly, we seem to be accustomed to sub par results with no repercussions. Four years is enough time to implement change and yield results. Instead, excuses (I’ve heard all kinds of crazy excuses too!) from our “professionals” are heavily publicized and readily accepted. It is poor sportsmanship and it needs to stop.

With all that said, I was relieved to see Clark and Lauren selected as team members with Maya as a traveling alternative. I wish nothing but the very best for our team this summer.

Hopefully, we see positive change going forward.

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=JER;8736227]
…
When I describe US eventing as ‘failed’ or ‘failing’, I’m talking about over the last dozen or so years (although it’s gone on longer than that). There is simply no case to be made for the program being a success.

US eventing supporters appear to have resigned themselves to their fate and seem very willing to accept very little in terms of progress and results. The PROGRAM hasn’t been a success. You can continue with the unconditional love, you can continue to chide those who don’t drink the Kool-Aid, but speaking as someone who keeps a foot in the waters of elite sport where results matter and keep you awake at night, I’m not going there.[/QUOTE]

100% agree. From the sidelines, in my case, not involved other than as a fan.

The team are made athletes. They are not ‘trying to get there’. The ARE there, or are supposed to be. Unfortunately, US eventing seems unable to find the horse-rider pairs that can hold their own with the best in the world at the time of each games. We have a tiny parcel great riders who can put up a world-class score, but most are not as well-mounted as they must be when it is time for the games.

I think the U.S. is sending one of the best teams since … well, several Olympics. I do not expect any medals, but one could fall our way. That’s the extent of my optimism, re medals.

But without high hopes, I intend to enjoy the hell out of watching the Games, anyway! :winkgrin:

[vineyridge]

I think it does say something that a very young horse like Meadowbrook’s Scarlett was selected as Lauren Kieffer’s reserve horse for this Olympics. If the horse can stay sound, she’s surely been identified as one with potential for the Games of the the next four years. Same with Boyd’s reserve horse. Now if they could just do the same thing for riders.

But the biggest change that could happen would be if TPTBs would help riders find and fund horses to develop. The Germans Verbands do it; the Dutch do it, all in the course of their breeding marketing. We could do something in the US in connection with PHR for American breds. Horses from other registries would have to cross register to be considered and whether such a program should be limited to American breds would have to be determined (the Dutch don’t require that if Keyflow N.O.P. is the rule), but horses with exceptional promise and results in lower level sport could be identified early and supported.

We should take the Dutch N.O.P. program as a model.