US Steeplechasing and wagering

[Glimmerglass]

I’m just curious if folks think that in the next few years we’ll see a significant upswing in the amount of money wagered on Steeplechasing?

As has been noted in other threads the legislative code in Virginia (now) allows for limited wagering at chasing events that had been absent before. That was just tested with the 2013 Virginia Gold Cup on Derby Day. Around $80k was wagered in total for the days racing which is pretty good considering - it was new, lightly advertised/marketed, no off-site wager money could come in, and no wagering of events off site (e.g. Kentucky Derby)

And now NJ with the Far Hills event (Oct. 19 will mark the 93rd running) will have wagering too - if the Governor signs the bill:

"The bill authorizes the commission to grant a special permit to conduct a steeplechase race meeting at a location other than a racetrack, provided that the special steeplechase race meeting is conducted in conjunction with an organization that has experience conducting steeplechase races and provided that the special steeplechase race meeting is recognized by the National Steeplechase and Hunt Association. "

All good news although off set by other locations that have wagering on chasing being modest in the results.

PARX on June 25 has chasing as their 7th race with 12 runners although just around $45k was wagered.

Fair Hills, MD on May 25, 2013 had a 6 races to wager on and the total handle was about $79k.

Saratoga feeds more money into the NSA races but its always lacked the interest that even $30k claiming races get at Spa.

[Texarkana]

I wish Iroquois Steeplechase would have wagering… although that will never happen unless they move it to either Trousdale or Shelby counties.

From growing up wagering at Fair Hill, I’ve learned I completely stink at wagering on races over fences. Maybe I’d get better if I did it more.

[Glimmerglass]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;7054265]
I wish Iroquois Steeplechase would have wagering… although that will never happen unless they move it to either Trousdale or Shelby counties.[/QUOTE]

Same would apply to Aiken as South Carolina (and just a few other States) doesn’t allow for pari-mutuel wagering. Can the NSA circumvent that by broadcasting the signal outside of the venue and State for wagers off-site? Meaning its compliant that wagering isn’t occurring at or on the grounds. I’m no lawyer so I don’t know if that would ever work.

With the new wagering at Far Hills (NJ) comes alcohol restrictions which may hurt the number of attendees - although will cut down on abuses:

General admission ticketholders entering pedestrian gates will not be permitted to bring in alcohol. Spectators will be subject to search and hand-held metal detectors.

Only reserved parking spot holders, tent holders and registered caterers are permitted to bring alcohol on the property for their private parties.

[danceronice]

I looked at the Parx card, but opted to bet another track that day instead. I don’t know enough about fences, the usual handicappers aren’t much help as they don’t either, and the PPs had so many “did not finish, fell, fell, fell, pulled up” I’m left going “Did they win because they were good or because everyone else sucked?” So I passed (rather like I only very tentatively dip my toes into harness betting as I don’t really know what I’m looking at.)

[gumtree]

Just had a long conversation with the NSA (National Steeplechase Association) on this subject yesterday. As a Steeplechase trainer and owner we would certainly like to see purse money increased. That being said since Virginia and now New Jersey for the Far Hills meet have/will allow wagering at their meets nothing has really been discussed with the Jump Horsemen and what’s in it for us. Hence my call to the NSA.
The loose numbers of money wagered at the VA Gold Cup was around $85,000. I did not get how much of that was paid out. In other words the net number. Of which the VA Gold Cup gets a percentage of. It is not as much as one would like at this time. The Gold Cup did have to invest in some infrastructure, wagering terminals, tellers, etc and from what I understand they did not have enough because there were long lines all day. So the number could have been a lot bigger. Unfortunately the Gold Cup venue does not have adequate cell phone coverage at this time to accommodate Smart Phone wagering it seems. And that may require another layer of bureaucratic review to be approved. I was told that several other Jump meets have expressed interested. Due to the cost of infrastructure to set up traditional wagering at meets that only run once a year I think expansion will be limited. IMO Smart Phone wagering is the only way to go. But due to the somewhat remote locations of most race meets this maybe problematic at this time with present technology. Again, bureaucratic nonsense and Union BS maybe be a major obstacle also.
The Mayor of Far Hills has already chimed with worries that this may introduce unwanted “actors” to his fair town. And this is NJ the biggest gambling state out side of Nevada.
If wagering at none race track Jump meets should pick up momentum and generate much higher revenue it has not been worked out, negotiated at this time what we the Jump people will get out of it. Which was the reason for my phone call. We need to get into action now. Because if we don’t get a big slice of the pie I am totally against it. It adds a lot of hassle and expense to a sport that most of us only do for sporting fun . There is little to no profit to be had for the majority that participate.
States that have Jump meets but do not allow pari-mutual wagering will have to change that to be able to offer betting.

[Glimmerglass]

[QUOTE=gumtree;7077528]
Unfortunately the Gold Cup venue does not have adequate cell phone coverage at this time to accommodate Smart Phone wagering it seems. And that may require another layer of bureaucratic review to be approved. … IMO Smart Phone wagering is the only way to go. But due to the somewhat remote locations of most race meets this maybe problematic at this time with present technology.[/QUOTE]

Just on the point of coverage from the cell providers I know that Verizon has in the past brought in additional cell coverage for sporting events: example being the Baseball Hall of Fame Inductions in Cooperstown, NY

Verizon Wireless is activating a temporary cell site in Cooperstown.

The cell-on-light-truck (or COLT) is a fully functional, generator-powered mobile cell site that enhances wireless capacity, allowing more customers to use their wireless phones concurrently to make calls, send and receive text and picture messages, access the Internet and download games and ringtones. The company placed the COLT in Cooperstown to handle the expected influx of calls and messages sent by visitors and media coming into town for the Hall of Fame induction festivities.

The induction crowds for the HoF events only once has exceeded the same audience size the Gold Cup generates (50k +/-) so I don’t see why someone at the NSA or Great Meadow couldn’t ask VZ to provide such a service.

In terms of the “actors” (ha!) cited with Jersey and concerns I’m reminded of reading about this betting coup in Ireland celebrating its 40-year anniversary just last week … ‘greatest Irish horse race betting coup of all time’ - Yellow Sam

Bellewstown track in County Meath on June 26th 1975. It was the days before cell phones and the tiny track seven miles from anywhere had only one telephone booth. The opportunity for mischief was evident. Bets laid at the track could not be relayed to bookmaker’s offices around ireland if that phone booth was occupied. Bookmakers around Ireland could not contact their on course partners to tell them that a coup was underway.

Agreed that if there is no financial benefit to all that comes with the wagering handle being boosted it begs the question for horsemen/owners - why then invite the added scrutiny and rules that will come with it?

If the signal for the International Gold Cup and Gold Cup proper, for examples, are picked up by say a TVG then some far bigger bucks can come back to all the participants.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;7077595]

If the signal for the International Gold Cup and Gold Cup proper, for examples, are picked up by say a TVG then some far bigger bucks can come back to all the participants.[/QUOTE]

I would be a LOT more likely to wager via my account if I were able to watch the races and hear handicapping commentary so I wasn’t taking blind stabs in the dark. I mean, let’s face it, most of us with TVG accounts just want to gamble on horse racing and aren’t horribly picky about what KIND of horse racing. We will bet on jump races if that’s available and we have some education on what we’re watching.

[Glimmerglass]

[QUOTE=danceronice;7077869]
I would be a LOT more likely to wager via my account if I were able to watch the races and hear handicapping commentary so I wasn’t taking blind stabs in the dark.[/QUOTE]

Valid point with off-site wagers apt to be placed on races only whereby the video is broadcasted and some level of handicapping is provided.

That will be a challenge for say a Great Meadow with the Gold Cup and Int’l Gold Cup events. They are ‘filmed’ but not real time for live broadcast at present. Added cost which only would make sense to invest in (by the NSA & host location) if there is a financial recovery.

First steeplechase at Saratoga for 2013 (July 25th) - from the chart, the total win/place/show pool (on site I assume, not all sources): $123,986

[danceronice]

Yep, though I’m glad I didn’t take a shot at it as the TVG guest 'capper’s pick was way off.

[Glimmerglass]

Just keeping the on-going wagering info here as a tally … two steeplechase races at Saratoga 8-1-13 although with solid rain falling in racing #2

Race 1 $65,000 purse Optional Allowance Claiming; field of 13 although only 10 finished

Total WPS Pool: $134,057

Race 2 $100,000 purse Group 1-NSA AP Smithwick Memorial; 7 runners

Total WPS Pool: $152,034

[Glimmerglass]

Another steeplechase wagering entry from Aug 8, 2013 at Saratoga:

Race 1 $70k Mrs. Ogden Phipps Stakes (fillies/mares); field of 9 with 7 finishers

Total WPS Pool: $141,478
Exacta Pool: $153,353
Trifecta Pool: $98,923

[Glimmerglass]

This Thursday (Aug 15th) will be another double-header at Saratoga with steeplechasing being races 1 and 2. Somewhat a rarity these days will be the appearance of the Augustin Stables silks in an NSA hurdle -

Entries for both races with “Young Bohemian” in Race 1, $65,000. Allowance Optional Claiming (he’s not in for a tag) … bred and owned by George Strawbridge Jr.

In case folks missed the Chronicle of the Horse in-depth article on Jonathan Sheppard I’d strongly recommend it.

[Glimmerglass]

This Thursday - Sep 19th - at Belmont Park is race 1 the $75,000 William Entenmann Memorial Novice Stakes at 2 1/4 miles. Topping a competitive field will be Pape’s Martini Brother, winner of Saratoga’s Jonathan Kiser Novice Stakes and a closing third in the New York Turf Writers.

Race 2 is the $150,000 Lonesome Glory Handicap (Gr. 1). Held at 2 1/2-mile race over National Fences a field of 10 will start. The first of three Grade 1 races on the National Steeplechase Association’s fall calendar, preceding the Grand National (Gr. 1) and Marion duPont Scott Colonial Cup (Gr. 1), the Lonesome Glory will establish the front-runners in a highly competitive season in steeplechasing’s championship division.

PDF file: final entries Races 1 and 2 at Belmont

I must say I find it interesting how the International Gold Cup at Great Meadow - October 19, 2013 - organizes the race wagering in advance. It appears, based upon this form, you pre-buy your wagering chit although in a first that I’ve ever witnessed you load up the chit via a Visa or MasterCard. Seriously paying for wagering via a credit card? If only the OTBs allowed that

[Glimmerglass]

[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;7053818]
And now NJ with the Far Hills event (Oct. 19 will mark the 93rd running) will have wagering too - if the Governor signs the bill.[/QUOTE]

DEAD. Governor Christie on Sep 9th killed the wagering at Far Hills but (oddly) allowed for the silly Atlantic City Palio - with wagering - to advance.

Christie’s “veto” was only about the portion of the bill that also would have approved betting on the annual steeplechase event at Far Hills on Oct. 19.

However, I believe that the bill’s provision that would allow wagering at special steeplechase race meetings deserves further consideration to determine how wagering at such events would affect surrounding local communities. An expansion of wagering events at locations other than racetracks or outside Atlantic City requires careful deliberation and is not warranted at this time.

I believe a special horse racing event on the beach will attract more people to our State while nonetheless preserving the breadth of horse racing around the State. Therefore, I am recommending that the bill be amended to only authorize the special running race meeting on the beach."

I’m calling b.s. on this one.

[Glimmerglass]

WOW - re: race 1 the $75,000 William Entenmann Memorial Novice Stakes

I’ve never seen a steeplechaser smash through the white guide fence wing. Wow. A cray race with so many problems within the field …

ETA: Video replay: Race 1, 9-19-13, William Entenmann Mem. Nov. Stks

Per Jimmy D. on TVG no rider or horse was injured so I don’t have an objection posting the video. See at about the 1min 55 second mark - honestly I’ve never see a jumper hit that plastic white fence so dead on. In-sane.

[Glimmerglass]

The video replay for race 2 - the $150k Grade 1-NSA Lonesome Glory Handicap - isn’t yet up on the NYRA site but it was chase to the finish with just a head separating the 1-2 finishers after 2 1/2 miles. Great race without any falls.

Congrats to the breeder - Whitewood Stable, Inc. - which was former Chronicle of the Horse owners - and owner Magalen O. Bryant.

Wagering money for Belmont Thursday 'chasing action:
Race 1: 9/19/13 Total WPS Pool: $87,884 // Exacta pool: $77,325 // Trifecta pool: $66,071

Race 2: 9/19/13 Total WPS Pool: $99,519 // Exacta pool: $91,463 // Trifecta pool: $73,583 // Daily Double: $65,818

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;7179180]
WOW - re: race 1 the $75,000 William Entenmann Memorial Novice Stakes

I’ve never seen a steeplechaser smash through the white guide fence wing. Wow. A cray race with so many problems within the field …

ETA: Video replay: Race 1, 9-19-13, William Entenmann Mem. Nov. Stks

Per Jimmy D. on TVG no rider or horse was injured so I don’t have an objection posting the video. See at about the 1min 55 second mark - honestly I’ve never see a jumper hit that plastic white fence so dead on. In-sane.[/QUOTE]

Looks like he saw the loose horse go around the fence and wanted to follow him. Jock tried to keep him and bam. At least the plasctic wings look pretty soft.

Cracking finish to that race btw.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Btw, is there a drought in NY? The infield looks all parched and brown.

[CVPeg]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;7179505]
Looks like he saw the loose horse go around the fence and wanted to follow him. Jock tried to keep him and bam. At least the plasctic wings look pretty soft.

Cracking finish to that race btw.[/QUOTE]

Yes - those 2 were dueling for the lead after Dr Skip had lost his rider and came up to the front to Cognashene - who was more worried about the contest with the other horse, than the course.

Nice catch of Dr Skip eventually by the outrider, as they finally slowed down a little inside the marker while the pack stayed on course.

And Staying On went right through the middle of the last fence, leaving so late he was lucky to keep his stride, but had a lot left to win.

Hope Dr Skip’s jockey, Jody Petty is really ok.

[Glimmerglass]

[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;7179342]
The video replay for race 2 - the $150k Grade 1-NSA Lonesome Glory Handicap - isn’t yet up on the NYRA site but it was chase to the finish with just a head separating the 1-2 finishers after 2 1/2 miles. Great race without any falls.[/QUOTE]

NYRA finally posted that Grade 1: video replay, Sep 19, 2013: Lonesome Glory Handicap at Belmont, Race 2

2 1/2 mile race that is a thrill to the finish! Image: photo finish at the wire