Use more leg, use more leg, use more leg UGH!

[Horseman15]

OK, this is just a rant - sorta

I’m admittedly new to riding. I’ve been riding about 5 weeks now. I ride 4 - 5 times a week. I’m getting the posting thing down and Saturday I started cantering. I had bought a really nice English saddle but it wouldn’t fit. I ordered a new one buy it won’t be in until mid July. In the interim I’ve been riding in a Aten saddle. I finally found an old used Stuben English saddle that’ll work for now. Friday night I used it for the first time. I sit differently in the Western versus the English. I feel like basically I’m starting over again. I had my first lesson Friday night and all the girl kept saying is "use more leg, use more leg. She said if she doesn’t respond bump her. Kick her if you have to. I know some of my issues are I haven’t built up enough leg strength for everything. But here’s my question. When your legs sit below the barrel of the horse how do you use your heel to direct the horse? Is it really all in the leg pressure? I don’t want to use spurs because my legs & seat aren’t stable enough yet and I don’t want to poke Chey. My other issue is Chey’s original rider for 9 years is very short and her “spot” where she reacts to very well to puts my heels up and behind my hip. I’m at a point where I’m very unsure what to do. Yes, get a trainer is an excellent idea except the barn where she is kept won’t let me bring another trainer on unless I use their trainer. OK, except I can’t get the girl (like 25 years old) to call or text me back. Just trying to squeeze her barrel doesn’t work so I’m open to suggestions. YouTube has been a big help figuring things out but I’m stumped at this point. It’s frustrating. Plus Chey, while a great horse, is also a very lazy one. So I’m open to suggestions. Thanks in advance

[Tha_Ridge]

You shouldn’t ever need to pull your heels up behind your hip. A horse either moves off the leg, or it doesn’t. In general, it doesn’t know the difference between a short rider and a tall rider.

Get a trainer. If you’ve been riding for five weeks, I would NOT be cantering alone. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. If I were your trainer, you’d be spending a lot of time on the lunge line without reins and stirrups.

[kdow]

Agree with The Ridge - lessons on the lunge line sound bloody boring since you’re just going around in circles, but what you do when you are first learning is establishing the base for anything you want to do later, and life is much easier when you have good solid basics.

(If you try to skip over the basics and actually want to do anything that requires being a good stable, comfortable rider? You’re gonna end up doing the boring lunge line thing or similar anyway. But later you’ll have bad habits to UNLEARN first. Just learn it right from the start.)

If that isn’t enough - the basic lessons are really much better for your horse in the long run. Once you learn to support yourself in the saddle and keep good position, you no longer end up thumping up and down on the horse’s back (which can make them sore) or catching your upper body with the reins when you get unbalanced. (Which, just think about it - would you like someone holding themselves up by way of reins attached to YOUR face? Probably not.)

It also sounds like maybe the horse isn’t actually fully trained? If she’s only had one rider previously then she may well be quite good FOR THAT RIDER but not have a clue what you want if you are asking for something in a different way than she’s used to with that rider. If that is part of the problem, then you likely do need to get some training rides put on her also, since beginner + untrained horse = bad. (The popular saying is “green and green makes black and blue.” Depending on what your goals are, the training rides may not need to be particularly intense, she may just need someone with experience on her to help her understand the transition from the things she knows to more general cues.

(And I know it may seem like a waste to train her if you can possibly train yourself to work with her current ‘buttons’, but unless you’re very wealthy and can set up a trust to keep her till the end of her days even if she lives until 45, there is always a risk that something will happen to you and you won’t be able to keep her. And a horse with good basics sells a lot better than one that’s ‘quirky’ unless you’re talking about a critter with SERIOUS talent - like people will put up with quirky for an Olympic gold type talent. You may not be concerned about how much you get for her in that scenario, but a horse that sells better means you’re more likely to get choices about where she goes to and can pick the best home you can find to sell her to. If no one wants your horse and you get desperate, well, that’s when the horses end up in bad places because you go with the first person who seems okay.) (Kill buyers are known for having people who work with them who SEEM okay who go to pick up very cheap/free-to-good-home horses from time to time. This does not usually end up well for the horse. So training is investing in her future safety, too.)

(I tell everyone with horses to get or keep them trained if they’re sound for riding/driving even if they don’t plan to do that with their horse, for that reason. The market is not good for horses right now, too many people who have horses they can’t afford to keep and keeping horses isn’t getting cheaper.)

[Training_Cupid]

Your shoulders, hips, and heels should all be in a straight line. Easier said than done - I tend to tip my upper body forward and then my lower leg goes back. For me it’s just something I have to keep consciously reminding myself of.
Then focus on keeping your heels down, and squeezing with the lower part of your calf instead of nudging up with your heel. Another thing I still have to work on - my new horse is much narrower than the one I had for 18 years prior and it is a lot harder to have my leg on him. Make sure you are not pinching with your knees.
If your horse is ignoring your leg, maybe try a small tap with a crop. First ask with a squeeze of the leg and then tap right behind your leg if you don’t get a response. I agree with not wearing spurs as a beginner. I still don’t trust my leg to be still enough.
Sounds like you’ve made a lot of progress in 5 weeks, just keep at it!

[EmJ628]

So, it sounds like you may be relatively tall and your horse is relatively short or has a small barrel (you said your heels are below her barrel). You really do need to get the help of a professional or a very knowledgeable amateur, we can’t tell you on an online forum if your saddle is putting you in the right place, if you are just too tall for your horse, etc. If you were riding western, any English saddle is going to put you in a totally different position and it will feel like your leg/heel is behind your hip, but really it is just lining up in a straight line (shoulder/hip/heel). If it makes you feel any better, I have been riding for over 20 years and my trainer STILL tells me “more leg! More leg!” so yes, it really ALL comes from the leg! Welcome to the addiction and I hope that you can get a knowledgeable trainer or friend to help you.

[merrygoround]

You haven’t posted a location, But it does sound as though the trainer you have puts the cart before the horse, and also lack the ability to deal with the proper basics.

Adding more leg really involves more than just kicking to get forward.
and position in riding is so very important. Without it nothing else works right. Are there other facilities in the area where there are have more advanced or proficient instructors, I would quietly start looking around.

[mfglickman]

It’s not clear to me if Chey is your horse or if she belongs to a friend who lets you ride? But I agree with the above re: working with a trainer, and if you don’t like the trainer at the barn, find a barn that does beginner lessons and has a trainer you like (call a few, go see some lessons, etc.). They should also have ‘schoolmaster’ type horses who are well trained and patient, and will “reward” you for asking correctly for what you want them to do. Good luck.

[SecretAgentMaam]

I’m in a very similar position. Adult beginner, started riding last February. I was initially taking lessons at a barn as part of a large program which, honestly, I chose because it was cheaper by quite a bit and I didn’t know enough yet to understand why it was cheaper. I rode there for a couple of months, and then got my current lease horse and moved to his barn, and started taking lessons with the trainer who works at the new barn. It’s like night and day. I thought I was doing really, really well with my old trainer because she kept telling me I was doing great and never gave me any more instruction than you’re getting. I got dangerously overconfident very quickly, started cantering before I even had a solid seat at the trot. When I switched to my new trainer, we started as if I’d never been on a horse before in my life because I had so much to un-learn after only a few months of lessons.

Some people would probably think it’s awful to start walking on a lunge line after you’d previously be cantering alone, but I learned more in that first one hour lunge lesson than I had in the entire time I was with my previous trainer. The new one is more expensive (but included in my lease, lucky me), and 100% worth it.

[NancyM]

Hello again Horseman 15, nice to hear from you. The 25 yr old IS the trainer who is giving the instructions re “more leg”? So you ARE riding with a trainer, of sorts? Yes, “more leg” is the key, and figuring out HOW to use it effectively is the key. Your feet may be below the level of her belly, but that is OK, they still work. She’s a good horse, with training under her belt, but she has to clue in to the attempts that YOU are making to give her a cue, because it will feel different to her than her previous rider who she performed so well for. Rest assured, that when you and Chey get it together, the training and performance WILL be there on the horse’s part.

If your knee is turned out, and off the saddle just a bit (“a relaxed knee”), your calf is on the horse’s side, right down to the back of your heel and ankle bones. With your leg turned out a bit like this, you can “close” your leg onto the horse’s side to give the cues, actually bending your lower leg around the horse’s belly. Your cue will be slightly lower than her previous rider, but she will clue in to this soon enough, and respond. But she does have to have enough respect for you to move at all, to listen to you. If she does not have this level of respect, she will maybe not respond as well as she knows how to. You may not have earned this level of respect from her yet. Respect from a horse is not given freely. It must be earned, by giving clear and concise cues, and being consistant, being balanced in the saddle, perhaps some things that you are currently NOT (at all times), but are aiming for. Be patient. Find things that you do well, work on things that you don’t do well. Don’t be rushing on to new and faster gaits until you have some mastery of the slower ones, you are not in a race to learn.

So the “Aten” saddle is a western one? (sorry, I am not fluent in some western saddles). It will feel a lot different switching back and forth right now, stay with the old Stubben. The English saddle will allow more correct use of your leg and seat, even the old Stubben is better than a western IMO.

The 25 yr old “coach” feels funny, huh? Well, I’m sure there are some good ones around that are that young, that can help you at this early stage. But being an old timer myself, I agree that they do look awfully young. And I’ve seen dozens of them come and go, ponytails pulled through the back of the baseball cap, and calling themselves trainers and/or coaches long before one would normally consider to be decent. But we don’t have enough info on this one in particular to say yeah or nay on her actual talents, other than text return ability. Because yes, more leg, stronger leg, effective leg, use of the leg is what makes you an effective rider, and develops your seat and security in the saddle. Even an old coach would be/should be telling you this also. Sit straight and square in the shoulders in the saddle. Stretch your legs down and around the horse’s barrel. Your shoulders, hips and heels should be in a straight line, and stay that way as ride. Your hands should be soft and guiding and giving. And your leg supportive and instructive to the horse, and like a keel on a sailboat, anchoring your secure position. Good luck, and carry on!

[kdow]

[QUOTE=SecretAgentMaam;8173735]
Some people would probably think it’s awful to start walking on a lunge line after you’d previously be cantering alone, but I learned more in that first one hour lunge lesson than I had in the entire time I was with my previous trainer. The new one is more expensive (but included in my lease, lucky me), and 100% worth it.[/QUOTE]

People really need to adjust their thinking about things like lunge lessons. Riders at ALL levels can sometimes benefit from going back to basics to work on or isolate a problem, and being on the lunge means you can just focus on YOU and leave the horse to someone else. It isn’t simply a thing that means “I’m a beginner so I can’t control my horse.”

Some schools of training do make more or less use of the lunge line - where I started riding the BO was trained in the German system and seeing people on the lunge doing various things was not uncommon at all. You started on it, yes, but if at any point you had some issue that you were having difficulty focusing on while riding, back on the lunge you went. Sometimes you just got a lunge lesson to brush up on things too, even without a specific issue.

(As an example of when the lunge line would be used for someone who wasn’t a complete beginner - I had a couple of short sessions of being on the lunge, not usually for the full lesson, when I was working on sitting the trot properly. Starting out the trot work part of lesson on the lunge let me focus on letting my body follow the horse properly, and once I got the ‘feel’ for it then we’d come off the lunge and continue in the arena. One of the lesson horses had a particularly difficult to sit trot, so even pretty experienced people who ended up on that horse sometimes had a bit of a lunge to start things off, for the same reason. Get used to the movement without having to worry about anything else.)

[Horseman15]

Thanks for the replies. I’m ring to remember and use all that you wrote. I had a lesson yesterday with a new person. I walked and trotted without my stirrups, which really helped me know where I’m supposed to be. Plus, I realized I was pinching with my knees and losing the stirrups has helped. After the lesson I was given the exercise of letting go if my stirrups and finding them again without looking down or stopping. A useful but interesting skill to learn.

In the Western saddle my leg position was different. I rather like the English because I’m closer to the horse. Then I cleaned and conditioned the saddle which made the leather softer and not really slippery anymore.

Oh, my legs and the contract points are very different from Chey’s previous rider’s. But after going without the stirrups we both are working together better.

[SuzieQNutter]

Just remember that more leg is not talking about your heels. You should be using your calves.

When Franz Mairinger was invited to join the Spanish Riding School he was really chuffed at how good he thought he was to be chosen.

He was put onto a stallion and lunged and lunged and lunged.

The instructor said he was still not right and called for another stallion! to keep lunging him.

[Horseman15]

Just so we are clear, I don’t have an issue with going on the lunge line.

[kdow]

[QUOTE=Horseman15;8178864]
Just so we are clear, I don’t have an issue with going on the lunge line.[/QUOTE]

Good. But one of the things about a post on a forum like COTH is that sometimes it becomes a place to talk about general things as well as stuff specific to the original post - so like a post commenting on how there’s nothing wrong with lunge line lessons is addressed a little bit to you, the person who posted the original question, but also to anyone who might come along later and find this thread by searching who might feel like it is a ‘little kid’ thing.

(Does that make sense?)

[Horseman15]

Yes, and I didn’t take offense to it. I just meant that I honestly don’t have an issue with it if that’s what it takes. That’s all that I meant