[QUOTE=gottagrey;8713772]
I too would like to know how the bute was discovered in the supplements? did you do a lab test, Was the bute in a container of say “flex free” and was instead bute? that would also have much more bearing on your complaint.[/QUOTE]
That’s my question too. Any bute I have ever used has a distinct texture, it’s using the one gram scooper, etc… How was the person feeding it not knowing what it was? What package was it in?
[QUOTE=mpsbarnmanager;8766717]
That’s my question too. Any bute I have ever used has a distinct texture, it’s using the one gram scooper, etc… How was the person feeding it not knowing what it was? What package was it in?[/QUOTE]
This was answered upthread. OP was given a Cosequin container and told it was the horse’s “joint supplement.” She later discovered it actually contained bute powder rather than Cosequin powder.
The discovery occured when someone noticed that the powder didn’t look/feel like Cosequin powder and it was sent for testing and determined to be bute.
Not tested yet, actually. The judge/owner admitted (in writing) that it was in fact bute when questioned. It is retained in case testing is needed, of course.
So, the horse was never tested, the supplement was never tested, and holding it for testing now is completely meaningless.
I still find it to be strange that anything could happen to the judge based on the information provided in this thread.
I suppose it’s possible that the judge cut the bute with enough of another white powder so that the standard cosequin scoop could be used to administer one gram of bute. If I were going to do such a thing I would cut the bute with cosequin so as to make it less likely that someone noticed something funny about the “cosequin.”
Dear OP, you are probably very upset about this incident, and of course you have a right to be. Speaking from experience, I would council that if you or anyone in your family continues to horseshow this will come to haunt you for a long time. The USEF might encourage you to proceed but the power of gossip in this business(since we sit around for hours and hours) is a reality. You will be labeled as someone going after a judge who donates endless hours to this sport. The blame could fall on a groom (we have seen this before) measuring the med., etc.
[QUOTE=leyla25;8769437]
Dear OP, you are probably very upset about this incident, and of course you have a right to be. Speaking from experience, I would council that if you or anyone in your family continues to horseshow this will come to haunt you for a long time. The USEF might encourage you to proceed but the power of gossip in this business(since we sit around for hours and hours) is a reality. You will be labeled as someone going after a judge who donates endless hours to this sport. The blame could fall on a groom (we have seen this before) measuring the med., etc.[/QUOTE]
Priorities!!!
The “mismeasuring/groom” excuse doesn’t make any sense under the context of the story as described here. According to the OP they sent her a Consequin container filled with bute and told her it was Cosequin. Unless the groom had some sort of demensia or something, that’s not an “oops I contaminated the bucket” kind of deal. Plus, OP says the judge already admitted she did it. To trick the OP.
Judges are paid for their time.
Even people who do good/donate their time should not be above the rules of their organization.
Sorry Leyla25, of all the possible options, that is the main thing the OP should NOT do. I’m very thankful that there are people like the OP who are willing to stand up and work towards making our sport cleaner. I’m uncertain that the USEF has much power to do anything regarding this one scenario, but documenting and reporting was nonetheless an important step.
Maybe Leyla25 is the judge in question.
[QUOTE=SillyHorse;8769575]
Maybe Leyla25 is the judge in question.[/QUOTE]
Stranger things have happened here…
Waaaaay stranger.
Just giving me my opinion. No, I’m not a judge. Have great respect for most of them. And it is not just about pinning, but about the psychological consequences on the rider. Good luck to all!
[QUOTE=leyla25;8769982]
Just giving me my opinion. No, I’m not a judge. Have great respect for most of them. And it is not just about pinning, but about the psychological consequences on the rider. Good luck to all![/QUOTE]
So if you knew a local well-respected member of the community beat his/her spouse, you’d not report it because people might gossip and there could be “psychological consequences?” I know it’s not a perfect analogy-- but the point is that you cannot keep quiet when you KNOW someone has acted abhorrently just because that person is well respected and/or volunteers. It may take a little bravery but the only way people will get called out for doing awful things is if those who know CALL THEM OUT. If the OP is right, what the judge did put a horse at risk of serious harm. And it was out and out FRAUD. I don’t care how much someone volunteers, putting a horse at risk while you defraud another person is AWFUL and shouldn’t be swept under the rug.
[QUOTE=Daventry;8713133]
I am just taking a stab at this, so bear in mind this is my own “theory” on the situation. I am guessing that, because there isn’t 100% proof in regards to the situation, no court decision, no admittance or pleading guilty by the judge, etc., that the matter becomes a “he said, she said” situation. As a result, maybe this is why USEF stated they would only make a note of it in the officials’ file.
As a USEF official myself, I do not take my roll with USEF lightly and try and always remember that my actions, whether as an official, breeder, trainer, horse owner, etc., can directly reflect back on the USEF.
USEF official Jimmy Torano was fined $500 two years ago after making negative remarks on social media in regards to the Pre-Green Incentive Program after judging the competition. http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/usef-censures-fines-torano-facebook-post
Off-hand, I don’t know of any others.[/QUOTE]
As a USEF official, what do you think about a professional rider competing with amateur USEF card. Is this fair.
Layla25- how do you know if the judge donates countless hours? You know the judge in question? I did consider that some officials may hold my outspokenness against me “or my family” - as you noted, but at the end of the day, the judge delivered the horse and the FULL “cosequin” - which was bute - and the previcox to me. When caught, she admitted in writing it was bute, admitted in writing he had a longstanding lameness, admitted in writing he needed retiring, admitted in writing she was “tired of trying to lease him out”, etc.
I find these behaviors - misrepresenting drugs to leasers/trainers, drugging horses beyond vet recommended NSAID limits, masking lameness with undisclosed drugs - do not meet the CODE OF CONDUCT that any licensed official must sign every year.
It is not always easy to do the RIGHT thing. But what if I didn’t notify USEF and she did it to the next trainer/rider? What if she did it to another leaser and the horse acted out from torn up bleeding stomach from unknown large and long term doses of NSAIDs and hurt a kid? What if the horse tested positive at a show from the undisclosed meds and a trainer was suspended for 6 months with no idea how it happened? So if I had sat back and not said a word, I would have just been another silent victim setting up future horsefolks to be victimized by her.
USEF is starting to take Compliance and Ethics more seriously. I’m glad of it.
Thank you Halfhalting…I am a judge and I certainly expect to be held up to a code of conduct that is respectful to the animals and the humans!
I’m so glad things are changing for the best. I was just offering my experience but if the USEF is taking these incidents more seriously it is all for the best and thank you to all that helped. I tried to do it once, and was not successful so wanted the OP to take that in consideration. It is disheartening to see offenders receive awards and asked to judge major finals.
Funny question I must ask. Why did the judge say the horse needed the previcox for? Post said that horse came with a clearly labeled previcox container. If the horse was getting previcox daily, it’s not a surprise that it had some sort of issues. Was it ever discussed why horse was getting it? Anything in the lease agreement about medications?
[QUOTE=Halfhalting;8774178]
What if the horse tested positive at a show from the undisclosed meds and a trainer was suspended for 6 months with no idea how it happened? [/QUOTE]
I honestly don’t have a lot of sympathy for a trainer in this situation. If someone wants to feed a container they did not open full of a substance that has who-knows-what cross contamination (or, as in this case, outright substitution) to a show horse… they are responsible for that decision and the repercussions.
When it’s your name on the line and you want to avoid being set down? You take the list of supplements/meds from the previous trainer and order your own so that you are 100% certain about what the horse is on.
Doing anything else is a stupid risk to take and one that is easily avoided. It doesn’t matter if George Morris himself gives you an opened tub and says “feed this.” Your name is on the line? Thank him and go order a fresh tub.
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