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USEF Equitation and H/J Judging

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Interesting that USEF feels the need to do this. They must have many unhappy members.
I wonder if the members of the task force will be the same people who are already on many of the USHJA committees.

Wasn’t there a post not long ago that contrasted vets’ body rating of ponies to judges’ scores, and noted judges consistently awarded higher scores to ponies then vets identified as obese? Maybe they want to recalibrate the standards a bit to watch out for trends like that.

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There was a lot of discussion around lame horses pinning at Devon this spring…

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Oh. Was that in the Equitation, or the Hunters?

This needs to be done. There has been some complaints about the finals judges over the last few years

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I don’t understand what the current controversy is. Sissy’s article is about the need for more judges and for judges to be paid more. Ok, but that’s not really a problem statement about the whole H/Eq judging issue as alluded to by USEF.

I don’t currently show. I’m disappointed that this part of the sport has not been able to elevate itself to 100% numerical scoring. I wrote an open letter to Geoff Teal on this forum years ago, asking for that change to start happening. Sissy’s article cites the anxiety of getting instant scores. Really? Get serious, please… Every other sport has this. Yup, gymnastics, skating, … the list goes on and on. Hunters? Nope, it’s too special. Yeah. Leaders: try harder. The lack of information about judging is not helping any bit of this.

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“This summer, an example of bad behavior at a national championship became a celebrated meme passed around among friends nationwide.”

What was that?

Or this?

“A national championship in 2021 showcased an embarrassing display of bad sportsmanship, warranting segregation of observers and participants for future events.”

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Those interested in this discussion might enjoy this fascinating This American Life episode titled “No Fair!”. In particular, this segment related to sports:

Writer Michael Lewis takes us inside the world of NBA refereeing. He explains how protests about unfair calls have increased in recent years. However, at the same time, hard evidence suggests referees have only gotten better and better at making good calls. Lewis says this is actually indicative of a larger trend in America — people distrusting authorities, judges and referees of all kinds. This story is a version of the first episode of his new podcast [Against the Rules]. (32 minutes) https://www.thisamericanlife.org/672/no-fair

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Sadly, the lessons too many of us have learned over the past 5-6 years is that if we yell “unfair” or “stolen” loudly enough, people will get behind us and support our position, even if it is clearly wrong! Pretty shocking to think that professional trainers either themselves or their clients would behave so poorly for a ribbon! I can see it if the prize is several hundreds or thousands of dollars as it is in the high end jumpers, but for a ribbon? Geez Louise.

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The ribbon itself isn’t worth anything, but placings and qualifications add to a horse’s value, which comes back to trainers via commission when horse is leased/sold. Plus show results are their resume - placings attract clients which creates income.

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I guess people don’t take sportsmanship into consideration when choosing a trainer? I would be immediately turned off by anyone who had a tantrum because of their placing at a show.

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I have seen positive changes in sportsmanship as a result of visible sportsmanship awards for juniors, amateurs, and trainers. Sometimes best to reward good behavior rather than try to reprimand bad behavior. At the top levels of hunter competition, the amount of wealth is incomprehensible and staggering and not conducive to any type of fairness. 500k price tag on a horse? No problem, that’a a pretty good deal! Kid or amateur showing 3-4 horses at Capital Challenge? Normal. 200k lease on a large pony? Ok! There is quite a bit of numerical scoring in the hunters (nal classics for child/adult), WCHR shows, hunter classics for juniors and amateurs.

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Even specific numerical scoring is STILL subjective and a human opinion. Only the clock, going off course or downed obstacles are truly objective.

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Green Incentive Finals and Derby Finals had live scoring, so clearly its possible. I wish it was a requirement at a certain level of show. I personally don’t really feel like there is a need for it at my local C show where there are 5 in my division and where it may then just put more strain on show organizers. But at a bigger venue like Tryon, WEF, etc - I would absolutely love to know whether I need to keep a horse braided and close to the ring for a jog or whether he can go home and get tucked in for the night.

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Have any of these shows actually reinstated jogging? I’ve still seen just the trot circles at the end, I haven’t seen anyone jog at Tryon since the rule changed during Covid.

Not that I know of (but maybe others can chime in?). I did have that the thought that maybe this is just permanently not going to be an issue any longer with respect to the jog, but at bigger shows/finals that call back to pin in the ring it would still be useful.

I’m sorry to say I believe the jog has gone the way of the dodo other than for a scant handful of shows such as Devon, where they really make a big deal out of the awards presentations.

Other than that, the horses can all go home and get put away, unless they are involved in an equitation class that might have a test at the end. For those classes, most shows with a lot of entries will provide a standby list part of the way through the class.

What’s the alternative in the hunters? Pole down is a 45, least we’ve got that. Actually, though, I have seen people get a 50 for a rail, not sure why.