I doubt it, they (spectators) didn’t seem the type to know one trainer from another
3 Likes
It’s a training show, they have them every Tuesday. One horse in the ring at a time, there’s an order, a numbered course and timers and a bell, just like a real show. There are 2 rings, a small ring which I believe does 1.00, 1.10 and 1.20 (no open water or triple combo) and a big ring with a water and a wall and a triple, which does 1.20, 1.30 and 1.40m.
She didn’t chase the horse, as the horse got to the takeoff stride she cracked the whip (from where she was standing) once.
What rules? This wasn’t a rated show, this is a training show. This is why I asked this question- SHOULD this new proposed rule pass, would this type of (IMO, totally educational and appropriate) training be halted bc some people won’t agree/ would report??
10 Likes
Not trying to start anything but I have been to WEF, WEC, assorted other A circuits etc and have seen trainers schooling from the ground with a lunge whip to correct the disobedience of refusing to go forward over open water or a Liverpool. Always on non show or Pro days, in the Jumper rings with well schooled horses who know what they were supposed to do.
Also seen it in clinics held on off days with primarily Jumper and Big Eq riders.
We all have different experiences and see different sides of the industry. Do lunge mine, with proper headgear and a lunge whip to help direct them. Others are welcome to do as they choose or what they can do within the limitations of their surroundings.
I wish the HJ set would drop bridles but nobody seems to care about carpet tacks and thin wire.
5 Likes
It must be nice to live in an environment where your horses can be outside all the time. Sometimes places experience things like ice and snow, severe temperatures, etc. where the horses cannot go outside. Sometimes lunging is the only option and people should not be shamed for using an available tool.
That said, just like all tools, lunging can be abused. But don’t act like throwing a fresh horse on the lunge is practically abuse.
22 Likes
Sorry but my OTTB is turned out 24x7 and has a stall and runout sheds to go into. We come into the barn 2x a day to eat and groom and mess with. If I don’t lunge him and work on groundwork before I ride, he’s a jerk. It’s just who he is (age 10). When we do that, he is fabulous. Otherwise, it’s frustrating with occasional bucks and resistance. I’m 66 and we don’t ride every day due to weather work, etc. and I’m not of a disposition to get hurt. But lunging is a valuable tool to get him focused and keep me safe. End of story.
15 Likes
Some of us use longeing as a tool that has nothing to do with whether the horse is fresh, got turnout, etc. It can be useful for a lot of other reasons and isn’t about just running them around. I worked my young horse in the double longe today—his second session learning this tool, first session was mostly at the walk. He got normal turnout and was no where near wild (he rarely is). I do carry a whip, though it’s a shorter one because a long one hurts my wrist after a while working lines with both hands.
A lot of the tools we have come from a place of usefulness. All of them, including some of the most simple pieces of equipment, have the ability to be abused. Whether it was the right application for that horse in that moment can vary a lot depending on the individual horse, their background, and the situation. Doesn’t mean it’s always bad. Or always good.
16 Likes
Because there are a lot of things that a horse can learn on the longe. Including balancing itself on the circle, with and without side reins or other enhancements.
My horses are out 24x7 (weather permitting, of course), but both longe at least once a week. They work on small circles for balance and larger ones for stretching. We start them over poles and raised jumps with all manner of distractions so that they can learn their job without a rider on their back.
It’s fine if you don’t longe. But don’t discount it, correctly done, as a valuable training tool.
19 Likes
The discussion regarding longeing here shows us where errors of ignorance can lead well meaning individuals to infer that use of a whip or longeline could be abuse when they are most definitely not. Anyone who has ever taught a horse a completely new skill whereupon they had to go forward in a very specific controlled way without a rider (self loading onto a trailer, longeing transitions by voice command, upper level dressage movements, driving, etc) knows that the whip is an aid used to reinforce voice commands or cues, and wildly tearing around would be the opposite of what anyone wants to accomplish in any of the above scenarios. There are plenty of excellent reasons to longe a horse and many ways to do it safely, effectively and to make it actually enhance a horses soundness and wellbeing. As @IPEsq and @paw said this is a tool and can be used correctly or incorrectly–that’s where knowledge and horsemanship come into play.
13 Likes
You can do whatever you want, obvs, but by your own words it seems that you don’t know or understand how to lunge a horse correctly. That’s one big hole in your horsemanship education. But just to clarify, if you think lunging involves a horse staying “unbalanced on the circle” or that the training aid “creates” balance, this would be a good starting point should you decide to expand your horsemanship goals and learn how to lunge correctly.
As to the horse hearing a crack behind him, as long is that it’s within his range of normal cues, it wasn’t even close to abuse. Granted, that’s a lot of cue, but that’s where some horses are, most likely because they are naturally lazy and unconcerned, and nobody ever escalated the cue enough in the earlier stages to teach them that less cue meant more, so they become the lunging equivalent of bigger spurs. I’m guessing the only abuse was if there was another horse in the ring who was a lot more sensitive that this horse, but since we have no info on that, that’s about as useful as speculating what color shirts the bystanders were wearing.
18 Likes
I have no problem with someone actually making contact with a lunge whip in the right circumstance.
This is a one-and-done contact where a horse is balky about going forward and all other cues have failed to produce results. It’s not repetitive beating. And it’s not appropriate at a show ground, in a schooling ring or not. The cracking of the whip is extremely rude to anyone sitting on an up or neon green creature. Good for desensitizing, yes - but sometimes you’re already on the razor’s edge of a melt down and something like that can trip the trigger.
Forward is installed at home. I think each of my horses have felt a lunge whip exactly once in their lives. They aren’t scared of it, I can whoosh it all around, snap it, throw it over their backs, etc as long as my energy is low and no other body cues are saying go forward. But they know to respect it, and to go forward promptly when asked.
7 Likes
Having trouble understanding how you get close enough to a horse to beat it with a lunge whip? Unless you are talking about a different type lunge whip? Much stouter with a much longer, heavier lash?
Ones I use you can get a short, sharp crack out of or maybe tickle the hock or butt if you care get that close- which I do not. They can see it, you can point it to direct them to reverse out on their circle where they belong. You can show it to them to keep from getting run over.
But getting close enough to really beat them with a lunge whip is a good way to get kicked in the head or run over, as people do every year…because they think their horse would never run over them and then the ice slides off the roof.
1 Like
You must not have ever seen Parelli nail a horse for not moving fast enough, or CA, or heck, I can ever wrist-flick the tail of the line and get one going. I’m nowhere near in range.
Also, there are no beatings going on. This is a one-whack job. Either overhead across the rump, or from the side across hamstrings. There’s no malice in me, I’m just enforcing what I’m asking. At the point I’m willing to make contact the horse has had MORE than ample opportunity to complete the ask.
1 Like
Oh dear, endlessclimb I was referring back to the earlier conversation, not to your post…I know you know how to properly use tools. My bad, sorry. Text conversation involving multiple people makes continuity difficult.
3 Likes
Oh ok! Sorry for my confusion!
Just venture over to the Parra thread for examples of how to beat a horse with a lunge whip. Is that what you are talking about? Apparently when the head is tied down to the front legs, it’s harder for the horse to strike back. 
1 Like
Can any aid be abused? Of course. But a longe whip, properly used, is a “go forward” aid, or a “put the shoulder out”, or “put the hind out” aid. Best used to educate a horse on the line, not under saddle. Abuse of an aid is when it’s used to terrify and force, not explain.
8 Likes
I was referring to use of the lunge whip in normal situations. Never occurred to me to tie the head down so tight it can’t strike back…wouldn’t that increase the risk of it falling over though? Have no idea, no intention of watching that video either.
Seems that it does. I don’t think anyone is beating a horse with a lunge whip in normal situations, though. Maybe one swift tap in certain situations.
1 Like
