USEF on horse abuse at shows and class limits

[outside_leg]

@Demerara_Stables

And to be clear, any day without turnout is unacceptable

I think a blanket statement like this is unhelpful. There are absolutely times when turning a horse out would be unacceptable: immediately after some surgeries, rehabbing specific injuries, etc. I recognize that’s different from a show, but a black-and-white declaration like that is a bit extreme.

To the point, I think turnout at the east coast shows isn’t utilized less because of the cost and more because of the type of turnout. A lot of shows use round pen panels for convenience, and the paddocks are small with square corners. Couple that with lots of new horses around them and an exciting and unpredictable atmosphere, and it can be a recipe for injury or worse. There are some venues with wood fencing and a little more room, and I see those paddocks sell out. Otherwise, we all spend a lot of time hand walking and grazing our horses to get them out of their stalls.

I don’t think anyone is or would argue that living in a box 100% of the time whether at home or at shows is in a horse’s best interests. All I’m saying is that there are multiple ways to meet their needs. I also want to be clear that I think turnout is critical—making sure our horses got outside more was one of the big reasons why we bought our place instead of remaining in various show barns—but I also don’t think any single day without turnout—be it for a show, injury, illness, or even dangerous weather—is inherently unacceptable.

[Amberley]

I’m beginning to think the problem is not a lack of horsemanship but a lack of critical thinking skills and an inability to conceptualize a world outside the familiar.

[Demerara_Stables]

Go do a hard leg day 3 days in a row and then stand in one place for the rest of the time and tell me how you feel afterwards.

Yes, I understand that turnout of an injured horse is not a good idea as well as turnout in areas where horses would get excited and try to run through or jump out of paddocks.

My point still stands that horses in stalls all week or for multiple weeks is unacceptable. Unless you are hand walking your horse 8 hours a day, it’s not a healthy situation for them to be in. And we all know that lots of show barns bring the horse’s home to minimal turnout there as well.

[outside_leg]

@Demerara_Stables

Go do a hard leg day 3 days in a row and then stand in one place for the rest of the time and tell me how you feel afterwards.

But that’s not what happens at shows. Most reputable programs get those horses out of their stalls multiple times a day to hand walk, hand graze, hack out, etc. It may not be the same as turnout, but it’s also a far cry from just locking them in a box.

I agree I don’t think horses should be at shows for weeks and weeks at end. I don’t know many (actually any) programs that do that though. Barns that travel to big circuits like WEF for several months usually have a home base where the horses can get turned out when they’re not being shown. Some are close enough that they hack or trail ride in for the day, and get turned out when they’re done showing.

Most programs I know don’t do more than two weeks in a row on the show grounds itself. Personally, I think even that is a bit much. But I still wouldn’t call it cruel or abusive provided those horses are getting out of their stalls for and hour plus at a time multiple times a day. And again, that seems to be what most people shoot for.

[Demerara_Stables]

Please I implore some of you that are talking about barns going off-site for turnout or taking horses home to come to a circuit on the West Coast. These barns don’t even have turnout at their home facilities so certainly they are not turning their horses out at the show or leaving the show to turn them out.

[trubandloki]

@Demerara_Stables

Please I implore some of you that are talking about barns going off-site for turnout or taking horses home to come to a circuit on the West Coast. These barns don’t even have turnout at their home facilities so certainly they are not turning their horses out at the show or leaving the show to turn them out.

For those west coast horses in that situation, being at a show all week standing in a stall, being hand walked and going for a hack to get out of their stalls will be just like home then, so not an issue for them.

[Tackpud]

@outside_leg

Barns that travel to big circuits like WEF for several months usually have a home base where the horses can get turned out when they’re not being shown. Some are close enough that they hack or trail ride in for the day, and get turned out when they’re done showing.

Funny thing - years ago I sent a pony to a VBNT at the home base they held near WEF. Two weeks later said trainer tells me pony is unrideable. I asked how much turn out pony was getting along with being ridden since pony was used to night turn out. The answer - we haven’t turned pony out. We don’t use our paddocks for that. They’re for show. I suggested a night out for said pony and amazingly enough pony was fine after that. So much for using those nice paddocks.

[Hunterammy2020]

Not surprised at all . Paddock space is actually surprisingly small at most farms around WEF. Good size grass paddocks are pretty much only at a couple farms I know of.

[Hunterammy2020]

Not sure what programs you’re referring to. I have not seen one program that does that consistently anywhere on the circuit. Private programs yes, but not “bigger” barns .

[neigh]

All those horses living in the tent stalls at WEF are, for the most part, getting no turn out. I don’t know of any farms that will allow all day or all night turnout. Florida grass cannot stand up to that much grazing and barn owners don’t want their paddocks ruined.

[outside_leg]

Your mileage may vary. Every time I have gone down there with different trainers, we used the tent stalls as a place to let the horses chill between classes or get dropped off. They got dropped off early in the morning, and picked up later in the day. There are plenty of barns with 50 stalls on 5 acres where turnout is a premium, but there are also plenty that have paddocks. Maybe not all with grass, but I am personally fine with dry lots and hay. And this type of setup is not an anomaly.

[trubandloki]

@outside_leg

Your mileage may vary.

The difference is, you are willing to see things that are not horrible while others want to paint an entire industry with the same bad brush.

Or course there are trainers, big name, small name, no name, whatever level, that do things in a way that any person can agree is a good way. Some posters just ignore that aspect and insist they do not exist.

[snaffle1987]

this goes right along with the 5am schooling rings at the bigger shows where the plethora of grooms have horses out there cantering circles for eons before the day even starts to make sure they are good and tired and mentally dead before the day even starts so Karen can show up and get a leg up and get that 50 cent blue ribbon

[trubandloki]

@snaffle1987

this goes right along with the 5am schooling rings at the bigger shows where the plethora of grooms have horses out there cantering circles for eons before the day even starts to make sure they are good and tired and mentally dead before the day even starts so Karen can show up and get a leg up and get that 50 cent blue ribbon

So lunging is always bad?
The horse being in a stall is bad, but lunging is also bad.
Because none of those grooms could be lunging for simple exercise to get Dobbin stretched out from being in their stall over night? They must be lunging them to an extreme.

Signed, someone who lunged in the morning at o-dark-30… for at most 15 minutes, but that time of day is when you can lunge so that time of day is when you lunge.

[snaffle1987]

When you are doing 40 classes and lunging your show horse for 30 min to an hour every morning just to tire it out, yes, its bad. I am not picking apart those exercising their horse; we all know that.

[Amberley]

@trubandloki

The difference is, you are willing to see things that are not horrible while others want to paint an entire industry with the same bad brush.

I think the difference is money and being able to afford both an off-site farm and a loafing stall on the grounds. Not every can do that.

[bingbingbing]

@snaffle1987

this goes right along with the 5am schooling rings at the bigger shows where the plethora of grooms have horses out there cantering circles for eons before the day even starts to make sure they are good and tired and mentally dead before the day even starts so Karen can show up and get a leg up and get that 50 cent blue ribbon

I was with you until the Karen remark.

What does Karen mean?

Karen is a slang term used to disparage a stereotypically middle-class, middle-aged white woman who rebukes or reports others in angry, sometimes racist public displays.