In fact, people are making INCREDIBLE assumptions about what was going on and what the horse was treated with. For all you guys know, he was sent to the clinic and observed til his heart rate settled down, none of you have any idea how serious it was or what was done.
None of you have ANY idea how the horse was treated, what medications or procedures he was given. NONE OF YOU KNOW. Time to quit pretending you know anything about it!
had to keep that official quote…
[quote=YankeeLawyer;3483714]Actually, felbinac IS available in gel form.
[/quote]
The point I am making, YankeeLawyer, is that you choose the ultrasound gel that has the drug in it for specific purposes. Felbinac would not be a “hidden ingredient” in ultrasound gel, as some had suggested. Does this make sense to you in the context of the other posts? At the time, people were talking about ultrasound gel.
SLC2, your post is very inappropriate. Please point out where anyone said this happened to Mythilus. If you actually read the posts on this thread, people were asking about atrial fibrillation IN GENERAL. My posts were about treatment options IN GENERAL, despite the fact that you and a few others continue to link any generalized discussion specifically to Courtney and Mythilus. I realize that you and others are following and prolifically writing on many Courtney King threads at the moment, but I implore you to actually READ the content of each thread and context of each post. Otherwise, your posts just don’t fit into the conversation on a particular thread. And, as one of the more prolific speculators about Courtney, the treatment of Mythilus, and what will happen with the hearing, the fact that you post here telling people to “quit spending time pretending you know anything about” the situation is hilarious!! How amazing it would be if you took your own advice! Should I copy and paste your words into the other threads after every post you speculate in?
That’s ok, J-Lu, I think alot of your posts are inappropriate too, but I just let it go, without responding with the personal insults 
I don’t think any of SLC’s posts re CKD were inappropriate. She certainly was not one of the ones who prompted Ms. Gray’s post, in any event.
I have to agree with J-Lu. Slc2, it seems like you didn’t read this thread, so your post asking people not to talk about CK doesn’t make sense. Can you refer to the posts where people were talking about Mythilus’s treatment as opposed to general treatment? I might have missed the general gist of the thread.
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3485728]
I don’t think any of SLC’s posts re CKD were inappropriate. She certainly was not one of the ones who prompted Ms. Gray’s post, in any event.[/QUOTE]
Your point is…
Sheesh, did no-one read the article about atrial fibrillation I wrote for the Chronicle about 18 months ago? <G>
I have no idea how or IF Mythilus was treated for his a-fib in Hong Kong, but just on a hypothetical level, if he did not convert to a normal rhythm on his own it would have made more sense to treat him with the electrical shock method than to use quinidine. Quinidine is extremely toxic stuff, and horses generally need weeks to recover from it, while horses who are ‘converted’ electrically are almost always back in work within a couple of days. It has been used over and over again in Standardbreds who are back jogging two days later and often race within the week. Given the timeframe of the Olympics, it would almost certainly have been the treatment of choice.
It’s true, btw, that some horses revert to a-fib after treatment, but the incidence of that is no higher with electrical conversion than with quinidine IIRC. Some horses do, some don’t. Repeat treatments are well-tolerated and usually do the trick.
[QUOTE=Arathita;3486337]
Your point is…[/QUOTE]
What exactly is your point?
[QUOTE=Arathita;3486333]
I have to agree with J-Lu. Slc2, it seems like you didn’t read this thread, so your post asking people not to talk about CK doesn’t make sense. Can you refer to the posts where people were talking about Mythilus’s treatment as opposed to general treatment? I might have missed the general gist of the thread.[/QUOTE]
In the context of this thread, which IS on the topic of CKD, someone posted that atrial defib is not that big of a deal (that was the gist of that post, anyway). The implication was that the circumstances faced by Myth were not that dramatic, or perhaps not likely very dramatic in the sense that in that person’s opinion, the patient typically bounces right back. Then, the same person said he/she wasn’t talking about CKD/Myth, and people should read for comprehension. I think more people should write with clarity, and perhaps there would not be so many Tower of Babel arguments here. But Arathita, are you just trying to stir the pot or what?
ridexc, i read an article in a horse mag recently about treating a draft mule that way (electric).
Please answer the question at hand. We were talking about atrial fib and treatments in general - quite fine until you came along with your very negative post. If you can find the posts that warranted your post screaming for people to stop speculating about Courtney and Mythilus, you might have been appropriate. Since we weren’t talking about Courtney and Mythilus specifically but fibrillation in general, your post was inappropriate for the content of this thread. So, please point out all of the offending posts. Otherwise, consider apologizing for derailing an otherwise productive thread or simply begin to join in with APPROPRIATE and CONSTRUCTIVE comments that fit the actual topic of the thread. It’s really pretty simple.
Oh brother. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=J-Lu;3486748]
Please answer the question at hand. We were talking about atrial fib and treatments in general - quite fine until you came along with your very negative post. If you can find the posts that warranted your post screaming for people to stop speculating about Courtney and Mythilus, you might have been appropriate. Since we weren’t talking about Courtney and Mythilus specifically but fibrillation in general, your post was inappropriate for the content of this thread. So, please point out all of the offending posts. Otherwise, consider apologizing for derailing an otherwise productive thread or simply begin to join in with APPROPRIATE and CONSTRUCTIVE comments that fit the actual topic of the thread. It’s really pretty simple.[/QUOTE]
Good Luck…She’s often misquoted me and when I point it out she ignores it, I guess she doesn’t like to admit when she’s wrong…Don’t hold your breath on that apology.
You say I misquote you. I say I see what you say differently from what you see it.
It isn’t a matter of not wanting to be proven wrong, J-Lu, it’s that if i respond to what you’re asking, i feel it won’t be discussed fairly or calmly, it will just get attacked more. To get someone to respond to you, you need to create an environment in which they feel there is some sort of point in responding. I don’t have any problem with being wrong. that’s not the issue to me.
[QUOTE=slc2;3487086]
You say I misquote you. I say I see what you say differently from what you see it.
It isn’t a matter of not wanting to be proven wrong, J-Lu, it’s that if i respond to what you’re asking, i feel it won’t be discussed fairly or calmly, it will just get attacked more. To get someone to respond to you, you need to create an environment in which they feel there is some sort of point in responding. I don’t have any problem with being wrong. that’s not the issue to me.[/QUOTE]
Well SLC since I wrote it and I know what I said and meant I’d say you are incorrect…No big deal I understand it’s hard for some to admit when they’re wrong. Stop reading into things just read what is written…no worries many on this board do the same thing you do.
[QUOTE=slc2;3485057]
In fact, people are making INCREDIBLE assumptions about what was going on and what the horse was treated with. For all you guys know, he was sent to the clinic and observed til his heart rate settled down, none of you have any idea how serious it was or what was done.
None of you have ANY idea how the horse was treated, what medications or procedures he was given. NONE OF YOU KNOW. Time to quit pretending you know anything about it! [/QUOTE]
I do know, from Courtney directly, more about the matter than has been released. Courtney is not allowed to comment publically about a pending case, but I hope passing on the below will not violate any one’s privacy, but instead will calm the waters a little.
When Courtney and the team arrived in Hong Kong, all the horses were in good health. They had a day off, then were all tack walked the second day. Myth didn’t feel right to Courtney. The team vet, Dr. Mitchell did an extremely thorough exam, and he found that the horse was in atrial fibrillation. His heart beat was erratic. Dr. Mitchell went directly to the Veterinary Commission to consult with their professionals. Several ECG’s were performed, and his heart was ultrasounded. Dr. Mitchell and the vet commission recommended that Mythilus be given a drug called Quinnidine in order to convert his heart back to a regular rhythm. It is given through a stomach tube every 4 hours, and has about a 60% success rate. Myth was taken to the clinic 9 times and was intubated through his nostril and down his throat to give him this medicine. They stopped at 9 doses. All of the drugs were known and approved prior to treatment. None were labeled with any banned substances. After Courtney began to ride Myth (with veterinary permission) he got better with work instead of struggling. While the reserve rider was standing by ready to ride an hour before the first GP test, it was determined Myth (and by the way, Brentina and Ravel as well) were fully fit to perform. Myth and Courtney, as we all know, did a fantastic job. No one, Courtney especially would have permitted the horse to perform if there were any chance of his test compromising his health.
When the news came there was Felbinac in Myth’s sample, all of the US vets and USEF people were stymied, and had to do (much as the folks on this thread have done) internet research trying to figure what Felbinac was, and they discoverd it’s a topical anti inflammatory mostly used on humans… not, as far as they could find, manufactured, approved, or available anywhere in the US. It’s not as suprising as you might think that US vets might not know about a non-equine med not in use in America, any more than it would be surpising if your top notch pediatrician would be surprised and puzzled by Bute showing up in a child’s test.
Courtney has said that EVERYONE has been incredibly supportive and doing their best to find out how this has happened. The USEF and USOC know clearly that this is a mystery to be solved, since there is no obvious way Felbinac could have come in contact with the horse. Courtney further points out that there would be no benefit to her using an NSAID since Myth has no history of any lameness issues that would benefit from such medication.
I’ve neve posted on this board before, but felt we could do with a little more information. I am very touched at how may people trust and support Courtney. IT IS FULLY MERITED. Let’s hang tight and see what the outcome is. Rest assured, no one involved thinks there was any intentional wrongdoing. Everyone followed all rules and procedures. I hope truth will out, and if there’s any positive outcome from this mess, it will result in a more realistic doping policy.
[QUOTE=FirstPost;3487117]
I do know, from Courtney directly, more about the matter than has been released. Courtney is not allowed to comment publically about a pending case, but I hope passing on the below will not violate any one’s privacy, but instead will calm the waters a little.
When Courtney and the team arrived in Hong Kong, all the horses were in good health. They had a day off, then were all tack walked the second day. Myth didn’t feel right to Courtney. The team vet, Dr. Mitchell did an extremely thorough exam, and he found that the horse was in atrial fibrillation. His heart beat was erratic. Dr. Mitchell went directly to the Veterinary Commission to consult with their professionals. Several ECG’s were performed, and his heart was ultrasounded. Dr. Mitchell and the vet commission recommended that Mythilus be given a drug called Quinnidine in order to convert his heart back to a regular rhythm. It is given through a stomach tube every 4 hours, and has about a 60% success rate. Myth was taken to the clinic 9 times and was intubated through his nostril and down his throat to give him this medicine. They stopped at 9 doses. All of the drugs were known and approved prior to treatment. None were labeled with any banned substances. After Courtney began to ride Myth (with veterinary permission) he got better with work instead of struggling. While the reserve rider was standing by ready to ride an hour before the first GP test, it was determined Myth (and by the way, Brentina and Ravel as well) were fully fit to perform. Myth and Courtney, as we all know, did a fantastic job. No one, Courtney especially would have permitted the horse to perform if there were any chance of his test compromising his health.
When the news came there was Felbinac in Myth’s sample, all of the US vets and USEF people were stymied, and had to do (much as the folks on this thread have done) internet research trying to figure what Felbinac was, and they discoverd it’s a topical anti inflammatory mostly used on humans… not, as far as they could find, manufactured, approved, or available anywhere in the US. It’s not as suprising as you might think that US vets might not know about a non-equine med not in use in America, any more than it would be surpising if your top notch pediatrician would be surprised and puzzled by Bute showing up in a child’s test.
Courtney has said that EVERYONE has been incredibly supportive and doing their best to find out how this has happened. The USEF and USOC know clearly that this is a mystery to be solved, since there is no obvious way Felbinac could have come in contact with the horse. Courtney further points out that there would be no benefit to her using an NSAID since Myth has no history of any lameness issues that would benefit from such medication.
I’ve neve posted on this board before, but felt we could do with a little more information. I am very touched at how may people trust and support Courtney. IT IS FULLY MERITED. Let’s hang tight and see what the outcome is. Rest assured, no one involved thinks there was any intentional wrongdoing. Everyone followed all rules and procedures. I hope truth will out, and if there’s any positive outcome from this mess, it will result in a more realistic doping policy.[/QUOTE]
Thank you!! A friend’s horse died being given what sounds like the same drug for the same reason but in to high of a dose. Apparently the University was used to doing it with TB’s and standard breds and since WB have more body fat they didn’t give it time to get through the horse’s system and it ended up killing her. That drug is pretty nasty…
My concern remains that if it comes to pass that Felbinac was in some way an inadvertent (read negligent) part of the medication or procedures used on Mythilus during his time in the Hong Kong Jockey Club Vet clinic, and IF the FEI, et al. do not clear Courtney of any wrong doing, then someone may have a quite a lawsuit on their hands.
credibility of the USEF?
Here is the big problem for me. Its nice to see the USEF be supportive of CKs supposoed innocence as they state in their PR. However, the USEF also declared Brentina sound the day after her lame performance in Hong Kong.
[QUOTE=shadowdancer;3488201]
Here is the big problem for me. Its nice to see the USEF be supportive of CKs supposoed innocence as they state in their PR. However, the USEF also declared Brentina sound the day after her lame performance in Hong Kong.[/QUOTE]
Ahh hit the nail on the head…Although I think in CKD case it was an innocent mistake because of the heart issue…I just want to know if the heart ever returned to normal rhythm before she showed him. I sure hope he gets back without any issues.
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