How could the wording be changed? If someone is habitually doing this, would it be enough to say “no more than X times in a rolling 12 month period.”?
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I would think something like 30 days before a show and six months afterwards. Or maybe one year afterwards. Enough to make someone think twice about it.
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That was me.
Because at the top of the rule change proposal, it lists the committees its gone to. There were none of “our” sport horse committees listed, despite the fact that ALL committees should have the ability to act on a GR rule, but only AHHS, American Saddlebred, ARHPA, ASHA, Hackney, Paso Fino, PFHA, Roadster, and Saddle Seat Eq, were listed.
It was, presumably, about bringing their rules in line with everyone elses, since if you look at the exceptions in the existing rule, those were some that had exceptions. Which is a perfectly fine intent, but it created issues in proposing changes to the rule across the board, in ways I’m sure no one really intended, but that’s why ALL the disciplines need to have a say in the GRs.
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Yes, I don’t think this rule change proposal was included in the list that was sent out to H/J members for comments, even though it would certainly affect that group as well.
Now I’m curious. I would have guessed it came from dressage, considering these loopholes are regularly practiced in some bigger circles.
Happy to see COTH is covering this. I see the loophole the rule is attempting to address and think a 30-90 day policy after showing is a good step in the right direction.
Posted in the H/J thread. Thank you to the Chronicle for covering it.
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Difficult question to think of how to avoid abuse while still allowing judges to train/instruct for a living.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens everywhere, which is why it makes sense to have it be a general rule. But it also needs to make sense for everyone regarding time limits and enforcement.
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I read the COTH article and I am still confused about some things. They talk about clinics are OK, but then say riding with someone once per month is not doing clinics, that is a relationship, riding with them once per year is a clinic and that is OK.
There is lots of area between once per month and once per year. Are they going to clarify in this crazy rule exactly what is OK and what is not OK? Is a clinic a one day thing on only one horse or can you (general) ride three different horses over four days with the dame clinician at whatever time span they have said is OK?
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Geeze just change 30 days to 6 months
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If you mean clinics/lessons, Why longer afterwards? Seems to me longer before a show makes more sense. And wouldn’t you want to hear what the judge thought beyond the few words on the test sheet?
If you mean returning to their barn, I’m still not sure what difference it would make.
Everyone is already used to 30 days before the show. Plus judges are not always hired that far in advance, so the trainer might not know they’re going to judge the show in question several months out.
It’s also possible to split with a trainer a month before a show without having it be any sort of a plot. The part that makes it look like a plot is going back to the trainer’s barn the day after the show is over. That seems to be the aspect that needs more regulation.
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Judge’s aren’t hired that far in advance?
Maybe it’s geographical but we hire our judges and TD’s 1 to 2 years ahead of our show dates. If I needed to hire a “S” judge for a 2023 date now, I’d be scrambling. I was hired last January to manage a new May show and it took going through 20+ judges to find an “R” that was available for our show date.
Then add the challenge hiring a judge that’s not already booked in the same qualifying year for shows within the region that draw similar competitors…
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It might be geographical to a point. I know a couple of show managers that hire judges based upon previous year entry numbers. It is often cheaper to bring in a judge last minute than it is to have to pay for a judge they didn’t need if entries end up lighter than expected.
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It also might be related somewhat to the discipline.
I have certainly been hired to judge shows a year or more in advance. I’ve also been hired a couple of months in advance, and on occasion I’ve gotten a phone call saying, “Hey, we are swamped. Can you come and judge tomorrow so we can add another ring?’
Again, if it’s a general rule, it applies to all divisions, so it has to be feasible for everyone.
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There have been shows multiple times, especially in the last two years alone that the judge listed is NOT the judge at the show… or when I’m entering it’s TBA.
Once this year it happened and it was my trainer. Luckily it was early spring and I hadn’t ridden with her since before she left and she was just back from florida. What was I supposed to have done if that happens… I mean she wouldn’t know I had entered and I wouldn’t know she was contacted last minute. ( I haul in to her once a month or so)
In this instance would I have to scratch the show and lose my entry?
So frustrating as I really don’t think when Ive show under her I get any special consideration… if anything I think she’s probably tougher on my mistakes. And for sure my scores are in line with what other judges deem my rides to be.
Or should my trainer loose me and others as a client because she’s a good trainer AND a good judge… geographically it’s going to come up. I’ll go out on a limb here and say if that’s the case we will loose a very good S judge going for her international license at our local shows and that would be bad for the industry.
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The whole Covid thing has dramatically increased the number of last minute subsitutions of judges. It used to happen occasionally, of course. But now it’s much more frequent.
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Of course it has… but that is the point… what do they want us to do? And why are they pushing this right now? Seems like USEF shooting themselves and us in the foot.
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Next question: How does USEF expect this to be enforced? Seems to me they’d have to rely on tattle-tales.
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I have asked this exact question for the part of the rule that read ‘judge’s trainer’s clients’. I worked for many years with an S judge while I was a R. This S travelled all over the country teaching and had probably 200 students. Technically, since she was MY trainer, I could not judge any of her students - even though I did not have a clue that 95% of them rode with her. I knew the locals - the ones I saw when I trailered over, but didnt know the ones in CA or FL or MI. I was told by tptb that it was the riders responsibility to not ride with me. How they were supposed to know I trained with their trainer half a country away I have NO idea.
The whole rule is tough to enforce.
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