USEF rule question - fall of rider during under saddle class

[theinstigator]

I was at a National A rated H/J show this past weekend. In an unrated division in the under saddle class, there was apparently some chaos during the canter and a horse kicked out, and someone fell off a different horse (I was looking the other way at the time so I’m not sure exactly how it went down). After the rider was up and horse was caught, the announcer said that the judge determined the fall was not at the fault of the horse or rider, allowed her to remount, come back in the class, and I believe the horse pinned.

I tried to find the answer in the rule books but didn’t find anything specific. GR842 says: The fall of horse and/or rider does not disqualify the competitor unless due to bad manners of the horse. Exception: Andalusian (see AL101.14), Dressage, Driving, Eventing, Equitation, Hunter, Jumper, Reining, Vaulting, and Western classes, in which specific rules prevail. HU 124 says that fall of horse/rider constitute elimination.

I’ve never witnessed anything like this at a show before. I know there are many officials on here, so I’m curious what other’s thoughts are?

[Scribbler]

I watched an Arabian show where people were popping off and getting back on and placing. I’d always assumed falling off was automatic DQ but apparently not.

[rockonxox]

Was it an Eq class?

EQ117 Class Routine
8. The fall of horse or rider does not necessarily cause elimination, but is penalized at the judge’s discretion.

For the over fences a fall is elimination, but for under saddle “it depends”. I’ve never personally seen someone fall in under saddle and come back in. Sounds like in this situation the other horse’s bad behavior directly led to the fall (maybe fallen rider’s horse reared up to avoid getting kicked)?

[Highflyer1]

To make it even more confusing, in pure dressage it is elimination but in eventing dressage it effects only the score of that movement and the collective marks. I got dumped a few years ago when a dressage letter blew into the ring during my test but was able to point out the rule to the judge and was allowed to continue. (Point for pony club making us memorize the rules! )

[blondewithchrome]

If it’s a USEF hunter/jumper show, even non-rated hunter classes follow USEF hunter rules. It’s my understanding that HU 124 should be in effect and the rider should have unfortunately been eliminated. I’m not a judge, though - so I defer to the experts here.

[wesierobb]

ELIMINATION if it is a hunter and/or jumper show. Does not matter who is at fault.

[theinstigator]

It was most definitely the hunter under saddle class of the division, not equitation. National A rated Hunters and 3* Jumper rating.

[Tackpud]

Horse and rider should have been eliminated per rules.

[vxf111]

One year at the DHS saddlebred Frisian class multiple people fell off and got back on multiple times

[_AWB]

We must have been at the same show. I didn’t see it but heard all about it as someone from my barn was in the class - it sounded crazy. Can confirm it was the under saddle class of an unrated, non-professional hunter division. I got the impression that management felt they erred in not splitting the class to begin with since it was pretty clear that the incident was the result of having too many horses in there (I think it was 26). I heard they split them and started the class over after letting the rider who fell off get back on.

[MHM]

Was it an Outreach class? It seems like sometimes the rules are a little more open to interpretation in those classes.

Your explanation makes a little more sense. They were not letting her continue in the same class. They declared that class null and void and started over with different circumstances to correct a management error.

[_AWB]

Nope, not an Outreach class.

[theinstigator]

It was not an outreach class. Low adults. 20 in the class. The rider got back on, the judge split the group into two, cantered in the same direction they were going when the chaos happened, maybe did another trot, and pinned it. I had a rider in the class but my kids were going in the other ring so my focus was on them But I do not believe they completely started the class over.

They also did not pull down the jump cups from the standards when they broke it down for the flat.

[clanter]

and a horse kicked out,

That horse would be excused from the class at least in the breed I showed

[Jealoushe]

@Highflyer1

but in eventing dressage it effects only the score of that movement and the collective marks.

??? Really?

[Equibrit]

FEI
DRESSAGE RULES
25th edition, effective 1st January 2014
Including updates effective 1st January 2021

ARTICLE 430
7. Elimination.
7.3 Fall. In the case of a fall of a Horse and/or an Athlete, the Athlete will incur an Elimination.

PonyClub Dressage Rulebook 2021.
Article 55—Scoring of Elimination

F. Fall of mount or rider.

OP seems to have answered her own question in the 2nd paragraph.

USEF
GR301 Agreement

1. All applications for a Federation license are accepted with the explicit agreement of competition Licensee that all classes (rated or unrated) to be held on a Federation licensed date must be recognized by the Federation and are governed by all applicable Federation rules.

[Highflyer1]

For USEF eventing/USEA
d. In the case of a fall of a horse and/or competitor, the competitor will not be eliminated. He will be
penalized by the effect of the fall on the execution of the movement concerned and in the collective
marks.

[Foxglove]

Not on point at all, but years ago at a local 4-H show, a kid’s horse bucked in the ring, lost his rider, and had to be caught by the judge. Meanwhile, a grandfather entered the ring and lifted his granddaughter off her horse (that was standing quietly on the rail) and set her on the ground.

Judge DQed both riders --the only reason I remember it is the grandfather made a huge fuss about the DQ --he was some kind of high up AQHA official —but the judge stood her ground.

[Jealoushe]

Wow! I had no idea.