If someone has advertised and is riding horses in exchange for money, is getting sponsored by a person for training and shows at the local level as a pro, than shouldn’t they be showing in open at recognized shows and not as an adult amateur?
I just want to make sure I am reading the rules correctly, as I only exercises two horses in exchange for money but I am honest and listed myself as a pro to show in the open divisions even though I am by no means a pro.
This happens all the time where non-professionals might take on a horse for a little extra cash. As soon as you take money for riding a horse you lose your status. Doesn’t really matter the circumstances. Riding in the Open division does not make you a pro, it just means that you don’t qualify as an AA.
TwoRoads said it perfectly. Somebody needs to either educate this person or file a formal complaint at the next show. That will cost $$ but if the complaint is sustained, you get it back.
There are a lot of people who are out of compliance with this rule, either purposefully or because they just don’t know the rule. It is probably one of the biggest areas of complaint - USEF has an email inquiry address just for this issue!
It is not just getting paid in money - if a person gets ANY form of remuneration - cash, rent, services, product, ANYTHING in exchange for riding, coaching, etc, that person is a “pro” under the rules. A groom who rides some of the client horses (even if only in lessons under the eyes of the trainer) is a pro. A person who exercises a horse while someone is on vacation and gets paid for it is a pro, a person who exercises horses in exchange for board is a pro. I wrote an article for our GMO on this topic this Spring, after seeing several violations in the area (including a rider who had never shown before, but was given housing in exchange for starting the owner’s young horses;, and a groom who wasn’t paid directly by clients, but was paid by a trainer and rode some of the training horses;, and someone who only coached one rider, but got paid for it).
indeed they are a pro and if you follow the USEF hearings and penalties you find they are penalizing people using their advertising, both in print and on-line as evidence of their status.
If you know for fact and have screen shot etc, you can file a complaint
MOR is right, it is not just money; rent, training, board reduction, tangible goods, and non-monetary compensation counts
and OP you are a pro by the rules. Pro has nothing to do with earning a full living or skill level. Good for you for your honesty.
Not to derail, but is the distinction of a pro only for riding or coaching?
Would cleaning stalls and feeding for a reduction in board cancel your amateur status? What about getting paid to braid or groom at shows?
Braiding/grooming/feeding/mucking/being a farrier or vet or even a judge, does not necessarily disqualify you from being an AA.
It’s only if you get paid (or remunerated in any way) to ride/train/give lessons.
The USEF Rule Book is free to access and very searchable via PDF 
The USEF is also quite helpful if you email them with questions about issues like this.
[QUOTE=halfhaltandrelease;8703759]
If someone has advertised and is riding horses in exchange for money, is getting sponsored by a person for training and shows at the local level as a pro, than shouldn’t they be showing in open at recognized shows and not as an adult amateur?
I just want to make sure I am reading the rules correctly, as I only exercises two horses in exchange for money but I am honest and listed myself as a pro to show in the open divisions even though I am by no means a pro.[/QUOTE]
You are, by the definition of USEF rules–you accept remuneration and ride a horse not owned by you. The Rider mentioned in your initial paragraph is indeed a professional per GR1306 as well and should be reported to the USEF.
[QUOTE=MissAriel;8704728]Not to derail, but is the distinction of a pro only for riding or coaching?
Would cleaning stalls and feeding for a reduction in board cancel your amateur status? What about getting paid to braid or groom at shows?[/QUOTE]
GR1306.2. “Remuneration. Remuneration is defined as compensation or payment in any formsuch as cash, goods, sponsorships, discounts or services; reimbursement of any expenses;trade or in-kind exchange of goods or services such as board or training.”
So all those “brand ambassadors” are Pros. So is the 19 year old college student cleaning stalls for lessons. Mostly because other people have exploited this loophole over the years, to be the barn “book keeper” and be riding everything under the sun.
[QUOTE=DoubleTwistedWire;8704772]
The USEF Rule Book is free to access and very searchable via PDF The USEF is also quite helpful if you email them with questions about issues like this.
You are, by the definition of USEF rules–you accept remuneration and ride a horse not owned by you. The Rider mentioned in your initial paragraph is indeed a professional per GR1306 as well and should be reported to the USEF.
GR1306.2. “Remuneration. Remuneration is defined as compensation or payment in any formsuch as cash, goods, sponsorships, discounts or services; reimbursement of any expenses;trade or in-kind exchange of goods or services such as board or training.”
So all those “brand ambassadors” are Pros. So is the 19 year old college student cleaning stalls for lessons. Mostly because other people have exploited this loophole over the years, to be the barn “book keeper” and be riding everything under the sun.[/QUOTE]
19 YO cleaning stalls for lessons is NOT a pro if they are riding their own horse (or a horse they lease) in lessons. But if they are riding CLIENT horses, it is an issue. I suspect you meant that, but just want to clarify for those 19 year old stall muckers that are reading this thread :lol: Otherwise, yes, this is a great post (and thank you for quoting the Rulebook)!
USEF lists many horse-related jobs that are not pro - vets, grooms (that do not ride - once they are riding any client horses, they are pros), photographers, judges, barn managers (again, as long as they aren’t riding the horses), boarding stables, etc.
Cleaning stalls for remuneration does NOT make you a pro. As mentioned above, grooming, stall cleaning, vet work, farriers, etc are not activities that cause you to lose AA status. Riding or teaching does. If you are a working student who rides horses for your trainer in exchange for lessons, then you are not an AA. But if you just groom or muck for lessons on your own horse you are ok.
[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8704788]
19 YO cleaning stalls for lessons is NOT a pro if they are riding their own horse (or a horse they lease) in lessons. But if they are riding CLIENT horses, it is an issue. I suspect you meant that, but just want to clarify for those 19 year old stall muckers that are reading this thread :lol: Otherwise, yes, this is a great post (and thank you for quoting the Rulebook)!
USEF lists many horse-related jobs that are not pro - vets, grooms (that do not ride - once they are riding any client horses, they are pros), photographers, judges, barn managers (again, as long as they aren’t riding the horses), boarding stables, etc.[/QUOTE]
Yes, sorry, it’s late. The minute you swing your leg over something you don’t own in exchange for cleaning a stall, you ARE a pro.
Really, the USEF has a whole email set up to address question about this if the Rule Book isn’t clear enough. amateurinquiry@usef.org. They’ll answer all your questions, and look into things for you.
[QUOTE=halfhaltandrelease;8703759]
… I am honest and listed myself as a pro …[/QUOTE]
In my book, you’re a professional athlete with integrity!
Keep in mind for dressage, amateurs are 22 years old and older. Juniors and Young Riders can accept remuneration without it effecting their status.
[QUOTE=AZ TD;8705176]
Keep in mind for dressage, amateurs are 22 years old and older. Juniors and Young Riders can accept remuneration without it effecting their status.[/QUOTE]
But Juniors cannot compete as an AA, they have to be in either Junior or Open.
I know off hand a couple of people who are riding as AA when they should be riding Open in my area, it seems to be more common than it should be 
I’ve even trailered to barns and have seen an AA giving a lesson to another person. I just stay out of it and hope karma kicks in.
I got back into recognized showing this year, when I last showed I was JR/YR and to make things easy on myself so I can ride horses in exchange for money if I decide to and made my status as pro. At the end of the day, I am going for my bronze medal so for me riding in one division over another won’t change my scores to go towards it.
Just want to point out that even if you use your own horse for up-down lessons and take money for giving those lessons, you are considered a pro
[QUOTE=AZ TD;8705176]
Keep in mind for dressage, amateurs are 22 years old and older. Juniors and Young Riders can accept remuneration without it effecting their status.[/QUOTE]
yes this is the one exception detail in dressage that I forgot to mention
[QUOTE=TwoRoads;8705246]
But Juniors cannot compete as an AA, they have to be in either Junior or Open.[/QUOTE]
Exactly!
Yes, sorry, it’s late. The minute you swing your leg over something you don’t own in exchange for cleaning a stall, you ARE a pro.
Not quite 
This person is “paying” (with a service: stall cleaning!) to ride a horse. No different then any AA paying for a lesson or a lease. If the same person would RECEIVE a service for riding that horse, she would be considered Pro.
[QUOTE=halfhaltandrelease;8703759]
If someone has advertised and is riding horses in exchange for money, is getting sponsored by a person for training and shows at the local level as a pro, than shouldn’t they be showing in open at recognized shows and not as an adult amateur?
I just want to make sure I am reading the rules correctly, as I only exercises two horses in exchange for money but I am honest and listed myself as a pro to show in the open divisions even though I am by no means a pro.[/QUOTE]
I think you know the answer already, the “I am honest” part sort of makes me think you are just trying to call this person out. In my 20s I got like $100 or something to exercise someone’s horse while they were away, and I did the honest thing too and chose pro. Little did I know the absurd process to get ammy status back- it costs you like $50 to apply and then 2 active members have to send in notarized letters on your behalf. It’s antiquated and ridiculous, you don’t even need notarization to get a membership in the first place! I’ve suggested they change this to an online system where people could simply log into their membership accounts to make it less of a PITA, but USEF won’t change.
Whatever, I just show open now.
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