Why the vague posting? It’s a documented suspension just get to it and post the information. Sheesh.
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THANK YOU for posting the actual info.
I don’t understand vague-posting and “the real write up is much worse” and the debate. Post the dang suspension if you’re going to post at all.
This isn’t a case where the only thing to go on is video or rumor. Say the perpetrator’s name and the suspension write up. Jeez.
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omg what a vile human being! I can’t understand how any rider can blame their horse that way. Awful.
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Maybe they were taught this by a vile abusive trainer. Like the ones we’ve been discussing on this board for however long.
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Maybe. Total conjecture, but the description reads more like someone exploded with unregulated aggression (a temper tantrum) than someone intentionally applying cruel handling techniques they were taught.
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how many other times has this person had a “temper tantrum” that nobody saw?
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Or tried to report and were told that there was nothing that could be done if it weren’t at a show 
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Her SM is sparse, but indicates that she lost a horse recently. I wonder if it was the one named here.
I’m not trying to imply what this rider did was OK or acceptable, but why are we bringing the word out to the masses?
What I mean is, what’s our end game? Are we trying to point out that your bad behavior has a longer life and bigger effect than what it’s been previous (Bigger fines from USEF and suspensions)
Or was there something behind the scenes between THIS rider and the OP?
I have read the rulings and suspensions on USEF for a LONG time. I don’t think that any, outside of the Tubeapalooza craziness, ever have made me think, “OMG, I need to post about this RIGHT AWAY. Everyone should have to go search out this ruling, but I won’t name names!!!”
It just seems like the kind of work that needs to be done is the type to intervene when you SEE SOMETHING happening. Not months later when the powers that be post about it.
Sure, this only makes us aware of a single incident and maybe there were others… but that can be true of ANYONE. Look at the Andy Kocher fall out. The was a VERY tall mountain of crap. I just don’t know that “outting” an Ammy who reacted VERY badly on one day with witnesses is what we should be filling the internet with. Also the subjectivity level is key. One person’s “beating/abuse” is another’s necessary encouragement to load into a trailer that ships a horse out of the California fires. You cannot say that all things are 100% bad sometimes. It’s a slippery slope.
I have said many things on these boards over the years, but I just don’t know that we’re thinking this one through. What’s to stop the next person from videoing someone doing something “abusive” at a show that might not be to a horseman, but is abuse to a “pet the ponies” type. And then we get more eyes on us.
I don’t think much good can come from this. Again, NOT condoning what was done by the rider, but the blasting months later is tough. It was handled and done…and then… BOOM 1200 views and now those 1200 people are reacting to something months old and in theory none of those 1200 people may have any direct contact with the rider or are able to improve things for them or the animal. We need people to actually be willing to say something when these things happen. Not keyboard warrior them ages later.
Em
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This is a different mare than the one that passed.
@enjoytheride To your point, her competition record speaks to the opportunity for several other “tantrums”. This documented incident occurred over 3 changes of scenery-leaving the competition ring, walking back to the barns, and in the stall indicating that this was not an isolated emotional response but a behavior that endured long enough to include packing up and loading her onto the trailer.
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There is zero excuse for this, period.
We need to be calling these people out - and the fact that a few bleeding heart PETA weirdos might cast unfair aspersions, generalize all interactions with horses as “abuse” and run with it is immaterial.
Stop shoving it under the rug, and “looking the other way” at this behavior.
NAME NAMES.
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Agree 100%.
And if we don’t police our own sport, then we deserve to have PETA do it.
Somebody has to speak out for the horses.
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1,200 people publicly discussing cases of animal cruelty, drugging, document doctoring etc will be a side effect of increased transparency. I think it is an acceptable one. It is part of accountability (of the governing organizations).
As far as slippery slope speculating about OP having ulterior motives, or that videos will emerge of non-riders petting ponies in a non-abusive manner will one day leak out -I wouldn’t tell you how to feel, but I don’t share concerns about those hypotheticals.
If, in fact, “something went on behind the scenes” with OP and the suspended rider, and OP wants to discuss their cruelty toward poor little Foo Foo - go off! Nothing salacious was added to the story. They merely made reference to facts laid out in her suspension without even naming her.
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This rider needs to be named, in order to give prospective students and /or owners a heads up.
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[quote=“anonevent, post:34, topic:802498, full:true”]
That’s not what I said nor meant.
The “Slippery slope” is addressing the fact that the same act (Hitting a horse with a whip, for example) can be “Abuse” in one instance and “Encouragement” in another.
“Pet the Pony” types of ‘Horse people’ are the ones that are NOT Horsemen. They profess to love horses, but would likely cause one to colic or many other negative things from trying to love the horses and not knowing anything. But they can scream “ABUSE” aloud and online like nobody else.
Em
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I don’t totally disagree but from the described details this is clearly not one of those moments. It’s not even a brief lapse where her temper got the better of her in the heat of the moment (which is also not acceptable, but on a different level). This was sustained behavior over what sounds like at least an hour or more, with no possible “training” purpose. There’s no excuse for that behavior, and there SHOULD be reputational impacts for it.
By your argument we should never penalize abuse in any form because it could all be misinterpreted or a slippery slope - we shouldn’t let hypothetical pushback prevent us from calling out inappropriate behavior where we see it.
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Why would an actual USEF suspension be relevant to non-horsemen screaming abuse for non-abusive behavior though? I don’t understand your concern.
If 12k or 12million pony-petter non-horsemen were hypothetically screaming abuse about witnessing innocuous handling of a horse elsewhere, a group of 1,200 people on a horse-specific forum actually discussing actions that led to a suspension is unrelated.
Even if they were the same, why would the solution be for the smaller, more informed, group with actual skin in the game and access to official documentation to self-silence?
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This is the ‘perfect’ getting in the way of the ‘good’.
Getting the facts in front of the public allows the public to sort out the true abuse from the alarmist attention-seeking screamer.
The description of behavior for a particular named abuser, and the video from another named abuser, leave no doubts.
This thread is discussing facts. That is the difference that separates it from malicious gossip.
Covering up all of the abuse, because of occasional attention-seeking screamers crying ‘wolf’ over nothing, is not a good way to set boundaries. It is one of the ways that abuse of all kinds is typically covered up. ‘It’s so over-stated’, along with ‘Don’t embarrass the abuser’ and ‘Don’t embarrass the system’. Facts allow the public to see the difference.
There is always a reason to keep the silence – but it makes us all complicit.
Silence protects and enables abusers.
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There is always some reason to maintain the silence and the lack of awareness. “I won’t say anything because someone else, somewhere else, at some other time, might misrepresent what is going on.” Along with avoiding embarrassment for others, and not being a troublemaker.
So as a result of the silence, people don’t know this is happening. They don’t know their system has a problem. They don’t know that an individual has a problem.
Owners and riders don’t have the information they need to know not to send their horse and their money to that trainer.
So the horse abuse goes on. And on, and on. And owners don’t even know it is happening, because their horse can’t tell them.
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So what happens when one owner’s perspective is that the horse is being abused, when the horse needs correction (Actual difficult animal), or alternatively a vet workup (EDM or other neuro suspicions)? You end up with a person bad mouthing another person based on their own perspective of the situation possibly without the correct answer and/or a skewed opinion.
Situations like this are why the existing Bad Buyers FB group is private. Resellers who know each other are in it to warn one another, but NOT the general public. Why, because they’re on the same page and they know the warnings are valuable and no one is running around complaining about each individual on the internet. We’d all run out of time if we demeaned ALL the people who we had issues with every day. But as a way to protect themselves and their time (Something that there’s never enough of)
My point was more along the lines that for sure there are times when discussing issues publicly merits the whole of the community. But there are many more instances where we as humans need to learn how to deal with controversy, offensive things done or said and take it in and process it ourselves but we don’t necessarily need to broadcast all the trials and tribulations of our daily routines that are minor things that life hands to you. (Zuckerberg would hate me… I don’t think you need everyone knowing all your thoughts all the time ala FB, IG etc. Some fun things sure… but not EVERY thing)
I see riding videos on a daily basis that show things that I wouldn’t do, but that doesn’t mean I feel the need to shout from the rooftops about all the things that are different. Likewise there are trainers I will never ride with at all or again. Do I have to warn everyone with what I know? No. Life is about learning things FIRSTHAND.
I’m 53, I have been on horses and been told to do things to them that I recognize now was abusive, sadly as it was 30 + years ago it didn’t hold much water to push back as much as I wish I could have. Likewise as a Working student in those years also I was absolutely abused both mentally and sexually. I have warned others but I don’t file lawsuits over things that taught me more about setting better boundaries and living life for myself over the demands of a boss.
I worry as a whole that the ability to have camera phones able to record in an instant and editing skills being far advanced from the old days, that we will run ourselves out of having actual equestrian sports. It may go back to grassroots and ONLY backyard friendly contests. And maybe that’s not a bad thing. The Hunters are using all kinds of drugs to get an advantage still and big time successful eventers are leaving the game in a variety of ways. Racing has it’s own woes and battles and I just don’t know that I think equestrian sport will survive in the ways it’s been.
So if what makes the masses happiest is to out all the people for all the things all the time, I just don’t want to be a part of that circus. Life is hard and routinely using your energy and time on making sure that others are exposed for whatever they upset you by doing… man that’s just some serious bad karma there. But again, sure warn the whole about the ACTUAL bad folks, but every single person that’s ever hit a horse with a whip…that’s a LONG list and very few on it are actually abusive.
Em
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