USEF to test equine hair

[findeight]

@Railbird

there’s a very specific subset of the sport that’s doing shit like this.

Well said.

[Hunterammy2020]

It’s manes they’re using so I guess they’re going to start trying to put fake hair in the manes lol I’m sure it will be when braids are removed it’s cut out by the tester.

[2bayboys]

Is adenosine prohibited or tested for? If not, why not?

[Railbird]

It’s now on the list of prohibited substances to have on you at the show but I don’t think it was called out previously? It’s a substance the body has naturally so I don’t know how you would test for it really or establish a threshold of what’s normal.

[SonnysMom]

You can’t tell shit about what is in those horses mouths from those pictures. I have seen hunters go in a D-ring with a chain bicycle mouthpiece. Nosebands with chains or spikes across the bridge of the nose to keep them from flipping their heads- with standing martingale to engage it. Just because it is a D, full, cheek, eggbutt, loose ring, on the outside does not make it a nice bit. Don’t forget twisted wire, double-twisted wire, triangle bits. Many can look benign on the outside but are close to razors on the inside of the mouth. I am sure I am missing a few that aren’t kind but look like a simple snaffle because there isn’t a curb or poll pressure.
Even some hackamores can be pretty severe but look kind because there is not a bit.

[Amberley]

Those photos are from the Olmypics which is FEI rules so you can be pretty sure there are no razor blades in their mouths.

[Nikki]

Ah, so you remember that too? I thought it was strange that the FEI asked the rider to collect a bit of feed each feeding so it could be tested if the horses had a positive.

[axl]

@jvanrens

Like they are going to test fake tails? Or did I miss the /s?

Maybe that need /s? Not sure. I was insinuating that some people would be cutting off the real tails and substituting fake.

[JenEM]

@SonnysMom

Nosebands with chains or spikes across the bridge of the nose to keep them from flipping their heads- with standing martingale to engage it.

Those are finally illegal now across all disciplines, as of April.

[DMK]

They still tell us to do that. Do I remember? Never lol. But the good news is a bag of feed lasts forever when you feed ration balancer, so the odds are every in my favor.

I suspect that FEI doesn’t do a deep dive on every test and it’s just like USEF with various targeted drug panels, but WCs and the Olympics get the whole megillah (as they used to say) and that’s where the strange one offs come from

[Texarkana]

@Amberley

I absolutely agree except that many of those top horses are also very quiet by nature. I was addressing the poster above who seemed to think most hunters were rejected jumpers and therefore very sharp. That hasn’t been true for 30 years. They are purpose bred.

I think I am the poster you are likely addressing.

I agree a quiet nature is often what lands a horse in the hunter ring. I didn’t mean to imply they are all “hot.” By design Hunter horses have to be quieter.

But I’m not seeing the purpose-bred horses you are seeing. I’m not saying that no one is breeding hunters at all, but the majority of them, especially the competitive ones, are coming out of Europe.

And that breeding has really changed over the past 30 years, trending to the modern jumper style with more blood. Which makes the pool of naturally quiet, slow cast-offs a lot different than it was when we originally started sourcing European WBs as hunters.

This part is totally my conjecture and not evidence based, but I suspect a combination of this and increased drug testing/welfare rules are why we are seeing a lot more extreme pharmaceutical use. You spend a ton of money importing a horse that has a lot more inherent spice than wanted, and can no longer just LTD or rely on more benign pharmaceuticals to keep them robotically loping along… so… here we are.

And no, I don’t think everyone is operating this way. It’s always the small percentage of ultra competitive cheaters who want to win at all costs.

[Amberley]

People in Europe, Germany mostly, do breed specifically for and market to the American market. They aren’t “cast offs”.

[Texarkana]

@Amberley

People in Europe, Germany mostly, do breed specifically for and market to the American market. They aren’t “cast offs”.

Maybe this is the source of my misunderstanding.

Because my understanding was you had German breeders and German “dealers,” for lack of a better term, who very much understand what North Americans want in a hunter and make a good business targeting horses for export. But I was not familiar of any Germans breeding specifically for North American hunters.

Who are some of these German hunter breeders? I’m very curious to learn! I love these things.

[Amberley]

That not really how it works in Germany, most horses are bred by small breeders who own a few mares and they will have a relationship with a selling yard. So you can’t just look up the breeder who probably has no website and doesn’t want to do sales. But people absolutely do breed for the hunter market, I personally know people who do, and why wouldn’t they? It’s a steady and good paying market for small breeders if they have a mare who is a good producer.

I’m not familiar with the scene in Holland but they market heavily to America and often hire American riders specifically to market young hunters so my guess is they aren’t just roaming the countryside hoping to find nice off casts either.

[DMK]

I think the tension is because the primary business of European breeders is to breed jumpers and dressage horses. American hunters are lucrative, but from a global perspective, niche. So while they absolutely are breeding for the American rider, the breeding stock they have to work with is not the same type as 30 years ago when this niche market started.

At the same time you have a generation of riders that never sat on a TB or a TB like ride. They grew up riding that heavier WB that was ubiquitous in the 90s-2000s and have legs of iron with swan spurs. They had leg day at the gym as a matter of survival. Sure there’s plenty of those horses still out there, but there’s plenty more that have an engine and let’s face it, that type is more likely to have a jaw dropping jump which is incentive to make it work.

Most people learn how to ride that style or find something that works for them. And as always, there’s a healthy fraction that tries tiring the horse out beyond what is truly ethical (we’ve all seen the ones that show multiple divisions) and a very small fraction that goes the chemical route.

But yeah, I do think that a) the change in breeding goals in the jumper and dressage market impacts hunters and b) the switch in type with the increase of blood is an adjustment for ammy riders and finally c) the incredibly slow pace in the ammy classes isn’t making the tension between a and b any easier.

[MHM]

@DMK

At the same time you have a generation of riders that never sat on a TB or a TB like ride.

I feel like that might be the same generation that has possibly never in their lives ridden a horse outside of a ring.

So they may be less prepared to cope when something slightly unpredictable happens.

[dags]

@CBoylen

I think quality has gone very noticeably downhill in the hunter ring. I don’t often see a full package with the canter and hind end to go with a round jump and good front end.

Is it the quality of the horse though? Or is it the ever present draw reins? These imports are generally coursing 1.30 in Europe only to get here and max out at 3’/3’3" while struggling to get a clean lead change. I don’t think the quality of horse has gone downhill, but I do think the quality of riding has.

Separately (or not), USEF/USHJA really missed the boat 30+ years ago in not recognizing the domestic opportunity to breed American Hunters, and continues to do so (see this years SBW fiasco). If even a fraction of USET/High Performance funding had gone to support American breeding efforts, many of whom are specifically breeding pretty, amateur friendly, mid-level horses (as in, aiming for 1.20m scope rather than 1.50m scope), we would have a robust national market right now. And a robust national market of green youngsters supports the entire bottom of the sport; from keeping local shows alive to creating a healthy selection of semi-affordable prospects for buyers. Without this support I’m not sure the math is ever gonna math for American breeders, who are isolated, unconnected, unsupported, and learning on the fly an art that Europe has carefully evolved over the past century or more.

Instead, USEF’s top-down focus of the last 30+ years leaves us with 5k/week mega-circuits and complete dependence on European imports.

Show hunters are 100% an American creation. We could have established the American Show Hunter type and avoided a lot of the issues that arise from forcing Euro Show Jumpers into that job. We could have then exported that type as it gained popularity worldwide. WE could have been THE market for Show Hunters, if USEF had ever shown even an iota of support for the domestic sport.

[hoopoe]

@Paint_Party

I cannot imagine the character of someone who would do this. Willfully. With planning and purpose.

I cannot imagine the character of a veterinarian who would make this available.

The paperwork associated with legal use ED medications is already burdensome enough let alone the illicit distribution. The nightmare of paperwork that happened when Ketamine became a human problem was bad enough

[Amberley]

You can buy anything online. Or in person overseas. Including vials and labels. I doubt this stuff goes through the US vet drug tracking system.