Having read the summation on COTH website, I am surprised a discussion hasn’t been started. It’s a lot to unpack.
You may get more traction with a link to the article referenced. Is this the correct one?
Lots of things discussed. Very little “X action will be taken or in effect by Y date to solve Z issue” (per usual).
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The idea of provisional suspensions and the possibility of including all parties for level iii/iv drugs sounds like a great idea to me.
The only thing I was unclear on is if pentobarbital rises to another level (V?). It doesn’t seem to fit either description since it is indicated for use in horses and FDA approved. (Although maybe it isn’t since up until recently was only ever considered for a one time thing and it wasn’t a problem if it had a lethal side effect)
From the article:
“Category III drugs, like opiates and antipsychotics, are not indicated for use in horses, and category IV drugs like GABA and Phenibut are not FDA-approved for use in horses and may be misused to alter the performance.”
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I think the idea of having the current year’s list of yellow card violations readily available on the USEF website is a step in the right direction.
If they wanted to do something even more productive along those lines, they would make it easy to search for previous rule violations by the names of members.
If they are actually trying to provide a useful service for members who are interested in horse welfare, it would be a huge help to be able to easily find out who has a long history of doing the wrong thing.
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What about “innocent until proven guilty”? A career can be destroyed only to turn out to be an “error” or “chain of custody was broken”. I can’t get on board with that. Of course, I want the druggers punished, but the current USEF system has proven to be problematic.
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Your thinking of criminal legal cases, not business involving the internal activities where a private corporation.
I think it is a great concept. Like when a policeman is suspended pending an investigation of an officer involved shooting. Or a hockey player who injures another player.
This is a tool that can be used to weed out cheaters, especially those who are harming horses, while allowing for an actual investigation that upon completion allows the parties involved to return to play.
Eventing has the yellow card and watch lists. There is no reason they can’t be instituted in the H/J world. Of course some folks will get whiny about it. But I believe it has improved both the quality of horse folks taking part.
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As RAyers pointed out, that’s fine for criminal court. This is a just a hobby. A hobby that has found it’s way to a horrifying level of drug abuse.
“Suspended pending investigation” applies endlessly in real life and somehow the world just keeps on keeping on. Why is this hobby more special?
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“Porter said that if the whip were to be eliminated, one unintended consequence would be seeing more electric spurs in training.
“I know that it’s probably not something we want to talk about, and it’s not a popular opinion, but we use electric training aids to train 15-pound dogs, companion animals,” he said. “And it’s not just accepted, it’s expected, right? That is the norm.”
What the what??
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I don’t even know where to begin unpacking everything wrong with that statement.
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If you go to WEF, WEC & HITS, there are comments made by Bonnie Navin indicating otherwise. Ms Navin is a well known equine attorney. Not being a lawyer myself, I can only pass along information made by people who are qualified.
I’ll give someone a little grace, public speaking isn’t everyone’s strength, especially now that for funsies you can also get your words unpacked on social media. That must make it extra fun to speak up. But it wasn’t an untrue statement. People DO routinely use shock collars to train dogs. People already have a long history of using shock devices on horses and it’s currently commonly used in livestock. I can see why someone believes that if you ban crops that there’s a group of people who will resort to this method.
Personally I am not for banning the use of crops or whips. It’s an aid, not an item of abuse any more than a lead shank is an item of abuse … You know, unless you use it as one. But that can be regulated and it is one of the easier things to regulate. (I also believe the people who are going to use shock devices are going to go that regardless of any whip regulation. Bad people be just that.)
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She’s certainly an attorney, I’ll give her that. But her post was an opinion, she wasn’t challenging USEF’s right or authority to suspend pending investigation and her contention that the people who may be impacted (owner/rider) may not have knowledge is no less true that it is for the FEI, where the athlete is always suspended and nobody’s successfully challenged that yet. Will someone fail to do their due diligence and be unable to show for 60 days? No doubt. Some life lessons aren’t easy ones, but I imagine they will do better the second time. I also imagine that will be a wake up call to the rest of the trainer’s clients going to shows under the assistant or rider’s signature. The current system just isn’t really forcing the people with the pocketbook to be accountable, so something need to change for there to be a chance at change.
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That she is.
One can do a search here or online for enlightenment about some of her concerns and causes.
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I agree. I don’t understand why we can’t see past violations of individuals. That should be something we can all have access to all the time.
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Big agree here. On the Eventing threads (don’t remember which one) there was a topic about banning whips or other whip related rules. I like the idea of only allowing the foam whips (such as racing) and having a strike limit (likely per round, cumulative for the whole day would be difficult to track I expect). To me, those are both low hanging fruit that would be quick and easy (relatively) to roll out and the precedent has been set by other disciplines. It would improve our “optics” as well, which should not be the driving factor for any given rule but is a nice side effect.
I like the idea of rolling out a carding system and having those infractions on the USHJA/ USEF site, with the ability to search by name.
The blood rule seems like another no brainer. I’m not sure how I feel about the “wipe off the blood and if it continues to bleed you’re out but if no more blood it’s fine” part.
The minimum requirement for moving up a level piece - I like in concept but in the real world I think it will be very limiting to AAs or JRs who can’t afford to show all the time. Maybe they can show 1-2 times a year (rated) if the rule is 3 results at Y level before moving to Z it could take them years to move up which might lead to them saying “you know what it’s just not worth it”.
I thought the comments about horses needing rest and to only feed supplements as indicated by the vet were interesting. Maybe the rest piece will lead to the class limits discussed in the other thread.
Lastly, the request from a pony parent to have some sort of resource to help parents and riders better understand what they are judged on and how to improve was great. It may have been glossed over but it’s nice that someone called out how murky the whole thing is to an outsider (and even some of those who are riding in those rings) and that as a parent (aka the pocketbook) they just want to know how to help their child progress and do better.
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i stopped using spurs and crops/whips. this one is going to take a long time for people to get on board with but it’s time people start thinking about it. i grew up when we hit our our ponies to “wake them up” before going into the show ring. i never questioned it, not for decades. then i started learning more about proper ground work and handling and it changed my view on a lot.
it’s not okay to hit animals, it just isn’t.
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I used to watch Bert DeNemethy flat the “Team” horses at Gladstone. He always carried a long (dressage) whip with a polished silver knob.
Never did he use the whip aggressively.
Horse wouldn’t respond to leg, it got a tap of the spur. If horse was still sluggish, it got a whip tap.
The good old days weren’t necessarily better, but horsemanship was better.
Yes, the ring at Gladstone was filled with tack rails, but hey, nobody overused a whip. 
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Considering that the trainers who have been set down for positives that are not errors have done just fine, I don’t see how the “current USEF system has proven to be problematic.” Do you have examples?
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Ya let’s fine people $2,500 for a horse getting hydroxyzine, but the ones who have horses “accidentally” get Sedivet, get a set down time that doesn’t align with the testing date, and get off right before Incentive & Derby Finals that they’re usually a major sponsor of, while still running business as usually along the way.
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Exactly - USEF ruining careers over drug tests has not historically been a problem…
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