I have a Ford truck which can utilize flex fuel. This type of fuel had never been an option for me because it has not been available for purchase in my area.
Recently, several local gas stations have added flex fuel to their pumps.
Has anyone hauled using flex fuel? If so, did this fuel affect your towing power?
Thanks!
[QUOTE=GallopHer;8576448]
I have a Ford truck which can utilize flex fuel. This type of fuel had never been an option for me because it has not been available for purchase in my area.
Recently, several local gas stations have added flex fuel to their pumps.
Has anyone hauled using flex fuel? If so, did this fuel affect your towing power?
Thanks![/QUOTE]
Do note that the owners manuals of several trucks specifically say NOT to tow while using E85. So that would certainly be my first stop before deciding to use it.
You will get a little more power, but will see a significant decrease in MPG while towing. So the cheaper cost may all be an illusion if you find yourself having to stop twice as frequently to refill.
Also note, since you’re a new user, that most truck models do have a process for swapping between E85 and other gas; usually has to be done when it’s lower than a quarter of a tank and completely filled, etc. So depending on your route, that may flat out not work depending on how frequent your gas station availability is. If you have gas stations every 10 miles along your route, however, likely not too big of an issue. Again, another thing to check in the owners manual.
If you do a google search for “towing with E85”, there are tons of RV and truck forums discussing it, as more and more truck models roll out that can utilize it.
I would not, simply for the fact you’ll have to stop more frequently.
Then there are the other considerations (consult your manual, see above) that don’t help.
No way would I use E85 while towing. If anything, if you can buy “pure” gasoline, that’s the ticket. (gasoline with zero Ethanol) Hard to find, but better fuel economy than E10 (normal gas).
Nope. Actually, I live in a town with an ethanol plant, and having done the math on the mileage I get on E85 and the price differential, I have found that it is usually cheaper to run my truck on regular unleaded. And it has been for years. Not sure why.
I think it is important to make sure you know how much cheaper the E85 needs to be for it to make sense for you. I figured it would be a no-brainer to use since they make it RIGHT HERE but it’s sadly not the case at all. Given the hassle of switching and the consistent cost advantage I only use gas now. The stations here use 10% ethanol pretty uniformly. They nearly all offer ethanol too so availability is not a problem but still, not worth it.
I’ve never seen a gas station offering E85. Even though there are ones that do there are plenty that don’t and or have both. E10 has been pretty much the standard for years now. So I would like to think all the newer vehicles (2011 and up) have been designed to run well on it. So I don’t see it being a concern.
I have run some early 2000 cars/trucks on E10 with no detrimental effects.
For those that are not sure what is being talked about here. E10 10% Ethanol. However, thanks to Jim in Pa pointing out, E85 is kind of “mislabeled” because it mean the opposite of E10. E85 can be up to 85% Ethanol and a low of mid 50%. Ethanol is kind of like rubbing/drinking alcohol and doesn’t have the same “combustion punch” as gasoline. In other words sort of a low,low grade octane.
Blended gas was a Fed mandate around 2007 in what some think was a knee jerk reaction for stretch existing oil/gas reserves. And reduce carbon/green house emissions. Some feel that is junk science. The cost of producing ethanol remains significantly higher than the cost of producing fuels from petroleum.
The majority of ethanol is made from corn. A lot of corn needs to be grown, harvest, transported in large trucks and processed/refined. The end product transported to gas refineries around the country. So in the end instead of reducing the “carbon footprint” there seems to be strong evidence that the use of increases more than it offsets.
There are a number of ethanol refineries paid for with tax payer dollars that have never been opened and or are sitting idle. Because the “numbers” don’t work. The use of corn based ethanol has changed the dynamics of the corn market due to ethanol subsidies. Which has increased corn based food prices for the average consumer. Seems to be one of those “feel good” legislation that hasn’t produced the desired out come.
The above is not a statement of fact just my understanding of things.
I’ve never seen a gas station offering E85. Even though there are ones that do there are plenty that don’t and or have both. E10 has been pretty much the standard for years now. So I would like to think all the newer vehicles (2011 and up) have been designed to run well on it. So I don’t see it being a concern.
I have run some early 2000 cars/trucks on E10 with no detrimental effects.
For those that are not sure what is being talked about here. E85 means the gas is mixed with 15% Ethanol. E10 10% Ethanol. Ethanol is kind of like rubbing/drinking alcohol and doesn’t have the same “combustion punch” as gasoline. In other words sort of a low,low grade octane.
Blended gas was a Fed mandate around 2007 in what some think was a knee jerk reaction to stretch existing oil/gas reserves. And reduce carbon/green house emissions. Some feel that is junk science. The cost of producing ethanol remains significantly higher than the cost of producing fuels from petroleum.
The majority of ethanol is made from corn. A lot of corn needs to be grown, harvest, transported in large trucks and processed/refined. The end product transported to gas refineries around the country. So in the end instead of reducing the “carbon footprint” there seems to be strong evidence that the use of increases more than it offsets.
There are a number of ethanol refineries paid for with tax payer dollars that have never been opened and or are sitting idle. Because the “numbers” don’t work. The use of corn based ethanol has changed the dynamics of the corn market due to ethanol subsidies. Which has increased corn based food prices for the average consumer. Seems to be one of those “feel good” legislation that hasn’t produced the desired out come.
The above is not a statement of fact just my understanding of things.
Unless a vehicle is specifically labeled (overtly or in the manual) as being FlexFuel compatible, E85 shouldn’t be put in it, regardless of the year of manufacture. And E85 is 85% Ethanol, not 15%. That requires special accommodations in the engine system for lubrication and in the engine electronics for proper detonation.
Another thought. I wonder if using a bottle or 2 of octane boost is worth the extra expense when towing and want/need the extra power/punch?
It’s not that expensive. Has anybody tried/used it? Reviews?
Octane doesn’t add power. Octane makes the fuel burn slower and is required for higher compression engines to avoid pre-detonation. (“knocking”) The fuel companies advertising is very misleading about this kind of thing…they make “premium” fuel look like a magic potion when it’s more of a huge profit center when they convince folks who have vehicles that are designed to run on 87 to buy 91/93. 
Yes, I live in Indiana which is why I have such easy access to ethanol. I border a corn farm myself, this is corn country. There’s an ethanol plant here out by our airport and it seems to be running every time I’m out there, which I am fairly often since it’s near the feed store I use. It’s still not cheaper.
E85 is 85% ethanol. My 2010 F150 is FlexFuel, not sure how far back the F150s will run it.
[QUOTE=Jim_in_PA;8577384]
Unless a vehicle is specifically labeled (overtly or in the manual) as being FlexFuel compatible, E85 shouldn’t be put in it, regardless of the year of manufacture. And E85 is 85% Ethanol, not 15%. That requires special accommodations in the engine system for lubrication and in the engine electronics for proper detonation.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for picking on up on that. Lost my trend of thought. But while checking “facts” E85 can be a blend of up to 85% Ethanol and as low as mid 50%.
E10 is 90% “gas” 10% Ethanol. You would think when labeling/naming they would have seen the obvious. E10 is 90% “gas” but E85 can be as little as 15% “gas”. A bit confusing to the average consumer IMO.
“Other than lower gas mileage, motorists driving FFVs will see little difference when using E85 versus gasoline. Depending on the actual ethanol content, E85 has less energy per gallon than gasoline to varying degrees (mileage penalty lessens as the ethanol content decreases).”
“There are more than 2,400 public U.S. fueling stations that offer (E85) high-level ethanol blends to the over 17.4 million FFVs on U.S. roadways. The high-level blends are available in more than 40 states, with a concentration of stations in the Midwest.”
The above is taken from the USDE. Another source states there are just over 600 stations offering E85
This is a link to an article on the subject from Car and Driver;
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/ethanol-promises-e85-and-fuel-economy-page-7
[QUOTE=Jim_in_PA;8577405]
Octane doesn’t add power. Octane makes the fuel burn slower and is required for higher compression engines to avoid pre-detonation. (“knocking”) The fuel companies advertising is very misleading about this kind of thing…they make “premium” fuel look like a magic potion when it’s more of a huge profit center when they convince folks who have vehicles that are designed to run on 87 to buy 91/93. ;)[/QUOTE]
You’re mincing words. I understand the science and that is correct. Don’t agree with “Octane doesn’t add power”. There are plenty of “gear heads” that would laugh at saying that.
My Jeep ran much stronger/better on high octane when towing. But it was designed to run on higher octane also. I’ve been a “gear head” since I was a kid. Hung out with the best of them.
To each their own on this.
Just repeating again that regardless of what bulletin board posters or Car and Driver magazine says, there are several new FlexFuel compatible trucks that specifically state in the manual that E85 should not be used while towing. Before considering mileage, convenience, and power implications, everyone’s first stop should be to the manual.
Thanks for all of the in-depth information.
Easy decision for me now. Stick with unleaded gasoline! 
[QUOTE=gumtree;8577484]
You’re mincing words. I understand the science and that is correct. Don’t agree with “Octane doesn’t add power”. There are plenty of “gear heads” that would laugh at saying that.
My Jeep ran much stronger/better on high octane when towing. But it was designed to run on higher octane also. I’ve been a “gear head” since I was a kid. Hung out with the best of them.
To each their own on this.[/QUOTE]
It’s not the octane that provides extra power on engines, it’s the engine design. Octane is strictly a measurement of how fast the fuel will burn. Higher compression requires a slower burn. Here’s the definition:
"“Octane” is colloquially used as a short form of “octane rating” (an index of a fuel’s ability to resist engine knock at high compression ratios, which is a characteristic of octane’s branched-chain isomers, especially isooctane), particularly in the expression “high octane.” "
My Hemi equipped Grand Cherokee Summit is exactly as you describe. It runs great on 87 octane, but the manufacturer’s recommendation is for 89 for optimal performance. The combination of engine design and slightly higher compression of that engine account for this. It’s also why many/most of the current crop of smaller displacement, turbo-charged engines require premium fuel…their compression ratios are “way up there” and lower octane fuel fires off way too early causing horrible knocking/dieseling. So the net of this isn’t that octane “adds power”…it’s that proper octane for a given engine provides optimal power for that particular engine.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8577385]
Another thought. I wonder if using a bottle or 2 of octane boost is worth the extra expense when towing and want/need the extra power/punch?
It’s not that expensive. Has anybody tried/used it? Reviews?[/QUOTE]
You would only notice a difference if your engine is already knocking under load. And in that case, just try the next higher octane at the pump.
Technically, E85 (mostly ethanol) has a higher octane, but the energy released by burning it is lower per gallon. So the engine drinks more of it to complete the same work. This affects peak engine power as well as fuel economy.
Jim said it, but I’ll mention it again: octane allows the engine to squeeze the fuel with more compression and still get a quality ignition. So if you build the engine specifically for the higher octane (E85, premium gas, race gas) you can get more power out of it. But with Flexfuel, the same engine must also burn standard octane too so the engine compression stays where it is. Bottom line: octane only adds power when the engine is built for it. And adding higher octane above what an engine is designed for does almost nothing.
I’m of the camp that sees the ethanol in fuel being full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. There is efficiency in a simple system, and making fuel from corn is not simple compared to the process of crude becoming fuel. So if you add up the numbers, ethanol is a net waste of resources. If it weren’t mandatory to burn ethanol, I’m sure the plants would be closed because it’s a high cost fuel source. Likewise, if you have to expend loads of fuel and fertilizer just to make the ethanol, the environmental emissions are certainly not favorable.
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