Uuuugh! Need support

[appendix100]

After an extended time looking, finally bought a new horse. 4yr chestnut appendix mare. Honeymoon phase is over, now the red mare is starting to show up. Fine under saddle, but manners on the ground are horrible.

It has been ages since I have had a young horse, & the ones I have had we raised, so they had manners. I know training is not linear. I know things don’t happen overnight (in my head anyway). But I am finding her hugely frustrating. Enough that I am not bonding well with her & questioning the purchase.

She wants to drag me around, push through me etc, & gets pissy if I dare to correct her (happening anyway, but boy does it piss her off). She has improved, but it just seems so slow & I’ve never had one that got so mad about it.

Any words of wisdom, encouragement, would be appreciated…

[LookinForSpace]

Mark the date: May of 2023. Betcha you come back here in a couple of years and say she’s the absolute BEST horse you’ve ever had!

[Jenerationx]

I think you just have to keep going. There really isn’t an alternative to training.

[appendix100]

@LookinForSpace

Mark the date: May of 2023. Betcha you come back here in a couple of years and say she’s the absolute BEST horse you’ve ever had!

that’s what I’m hoping…she’s certainly the best quality I’ve every had. If she just wasn’t such a B when she doesn’t get her way!!

[luvmyhackney]

It’s the 4 y/o phase. In a year they get over it and grow up.

I could have written this post about my 4 y/o a couple years ago. Now he is a giant puppy on the ground.

Deep breathing and don’t make a big deal of the dramatics.

[danhelm441]

Take a deep breath, you’ve got this!!! You will work through it. If you aren’t already, start leading her with a chain shank with a long lead line (like… 6 ft? Not long, just not the dinky short ones), and a dressage whip in your free hand. Stay at her shoulder, keep a light contact on the lead rope with your left hand and don’t hesitate to use pressure to keep her straight and not rushing ahead of you! And use the whip with your right hand (or the end of the lead, if you don’t have a whip) to flick her in the flank and keep her moving forward if she even thinks about sucking back and trying any airs above ground. If she prances with her head up and her mind is everywhere but on you, wiggle the chain until you at least get an ear flick in your direction. And it may sound obvious but always bears repeating, look where you want to go, not at her!! Use your peripheral vision to catch sight of any antics brewing before they bubble over.

I know even if you know all this and are practicing it, it can still be stressful to deal these behaviors. But trust that you can and will deal with them and will be a stronger and more confident horse person as a result!

[ClassyJumper]

I like to play “red light, green light” when my mare seems to know better where we are going. Make sure you have a rope halter on her so you can get a little loud if she barges past you or lags behind. She must stay at your shoulder, stop right when you stop, back up if you back up, trot off if you jog off. It’s kind of a game and I feel like smart mare’s will start to like the challenge instead of getting pissy. Once they know the “game” all it takes is a quick reminder to get them paying attention to you again. Good luck! The 4/5s can be rough!

[marmarmar]

I do the same thing. My horse used to bowl me over or haul off. Now anytime he starts getting ahead, we do stop/back up/forward to remind him where he should be. Works wonders at shows where the atmosphere is busy and he tends to get big. He finds the routine relaxing

[Pocket_Rocket]

I love this response!

OP, once this red girl gets over herself and begins to love you, she’ll love you forever.

Ask me how I know!

[cheektwocheek]

My 3 yr old was an absolute angel . Now at 4 he has an opinion & it’s usually wrong. These teenagers are rough, but they get through it somehow. I have a torn rotator cuff currently, to prove his antics are taking a toll…

Just be very consistent in your corrections.

[Bonnie2]

Oh yeah, rebellious teenager stage! You just have to live with the fact that she won’t be your friend for a while and you are stuck being the responsible grown up. Be careful handling her meanwhile so she doesn’t do something you can’t forgive. Most of them grow up. One of mine never outgrew bitchy but was a fabulous jumper and she eventually went to live in a professional stable with professional grooms. Best of luck!

[exvet]

Agree with the others, give it more time, all the while being consistent, black and white but fair. I was given some very good advice decades ago. With every new partnership, give it a full year before you decide if it’s a true match or not especially if you’re dealing with a youngster. I purchased a 2 year old that used to run the boarders out of the pasture (horses and humans) because he was too pushy and bold. It took a long time, at least 8 months and then reminders periodically from there to teach him that this was my space and he was NOT to get inside it, EVER. At age 11 he earned me my silver medal; so, he definitely was one I was meant to keep. There were times though that I questioned it especially when he would piss off my other horses by behaving the same way he initially behaved with me.

I have one now who on the ground isn’t too bad but he tries to be a bully under saddle. He’s just turning 6 and my persistence is paying off. I know that this is his go to for everything so I have to ride him in a way that simply doesn’t give him that option. Fortunately he’s not a huge fighter so it’s relatively easy to set him up in a way where his answer to most questions I ask are ‘yes ma’am’. It’s persistence and believing in the horse as well as yourself.

[eightpondfarm]

One thing i always remind myself when dealing with a wayward animal: It’s not personal

Oh, and:
Consistency/Insistency/Persistency

[Kyrabee]

Yep. Time, consistency and presence…yours. Horses are very good at knowing where your mind is and if it isn’t with them they will take advantage.

I have a 22yo mare who likes to control the narrative. I have had her since she was coming 2. She had extensive groundwork as a youngster which truth be known continues to this day as reminders. I started her under saddle and that went fine. However, on the ground, time and time again, if I check out, she will attempt to take over. Now I will say that now probably she is good 99.5% of the time but that 0.5% is in there ready to come out if I am not paying attention .

Susan

[appendix100]

Breakthrough today… (Linguistically, not horse, although she was marginally better than yesterday).

What I have is a tweddler. A 4year old horse that has the attitude of a teenager & the tantrums of a toddler…

[LCDR]

My 5 year old mare similar to this we started back with round pen work. It took around a year to get her straightened out. She is 26 now and my all time favorite.

Stay calm and don’t rush things. Lots and lots of positive reinforcement. Your young mare will be worth it.

[Heinz_57]

@appendix100

But I am finding her hugely frustrating. Enough that I am not bonding well with her & questioning the purchase.

Try not to take it personally. Some horses just go through a phase around that age, and she will still be the same talented horse once she’s outgrown it. I would encourage you to look into groundwork programs, if you’re not already, to address the leading issues and the attitude about being corrected. You two may just not be communicating very clearly about boundaries, and it sounds like your corrections are escalating behavior. Even my cute, sweet little quarter pony had a red dragon phase, which is how I ended up with a TRT Method subscription. It helped me set clearer boundaries and communicate them without making it a ‘fight’.

[findeight]

Remember shes not a dog and you are not her pack leader. Bonding with a horse is more reaching a point of mutual respect then slavish devotion. Shes pushing you around because she can and knows it frustrates you. Pretty common, most people ignore proper ground handling and never practice it let alone properly train it and consistently practice it every time you handle her.

Change your mindset to that of the alpha mare who is always clear and consistent defining boundaries and expectations. Be clear in what you want, be consistent in how you ask and quick with corrections. Be sure anybody else who handles her treats her the same way.

No secret techniques, no drama, just consistency. Once you get a mare on your side theres no better partner…but you do have to earn it. Don’t be afraid to review proper way to lead and control, you got this, you’ll get there.

[Montanas_Girl]

The four year old year does seem to be the toughest one all around.

But…Dragging and/or running over the human is just not allowed. Period. She needs to have that lesson established in such a way that it leaves zero room for discussion. I am not a Clinton Anderson fan, but I do like and use his rope halter. It has just the right weight and drape to get the point across clearly to a dull/pushy horse without being “too much” for a more sensitive, responsive one.

Self preservation skill #1: Don’t let her get to the point where she has more leverage than you on the lead rope. For the really naughty ones like this, that often means keeping them literally on a short “leash” of less than a foot for a while. The minute she gets her shoulder in front of yours, there is nothing you can do physically to control her momentum if she decides to peace out. So don’t give her the chance to practice this behavior.

[appendix100]

Thank you all. She is improving, just slowly. Much better manners leading in general, still issues with trying to drag me off to the best clump of grass if I have to go across the pasture, but getting better. I don’t feel like I’m getting as much of the tantrum behavior. Still sullen, head shaking & not perfect, but no more rearing or kicking when she is corrected, even with a very firm correction. Getting there. Slowly…