I have yet another question for COTHers. I was watching the video of Charlotte and Carl posted by LarkspurCO (thanks, by the way) and Valegro’s temperament struck me as being exceptional. I believe I read Charlotte said she prefers hot horses. Would you consider Valegro to be a hot horse, and if so, can hot horses have such calm and willing temperaments that Valegro seems to possess? I have always associated “hot” as being very responsive, yet high-strung, flighty and unpredictable. Am I confusing hot with responsive? If horses can indeed be hot, yet calm, why aren’t more bred to have this temperament? Is there a line of horses that seem to consistently produce horses with this temperament? TIA. Also, I realize that Charlotte and Carl are exceptional riders and trainers, so I’m sure this accounts, in part, for Valegro’s responsiveness, as well.
Having seem some rather explosive moments (see awards pictures from WDM) don’t think I’d consider him calm… Rather Charlotte does an exceptional job channeling his fire.
If you watched the video and paid attention (a-hem! :D) you would have heard Carl address this question specifically.
He said that Valegro is not at all a hot horse, that he was born with that quiet temperament. Carl said something about Valegro’s first awards ceremony as a four-year-old when he “stood there with his legs crossed.”
Of course, even a quiet horse can have explosive moments, but I would take Carl at his word – Valegro is just a naturally relaxed and easy-going guy.
Discussion of temperament starts about 11:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?sns=fb&v=kebnBiDYh90&app=desktop
Ah, I do remember Carl discussing Valegro’s temperament. So, can I assume that hotness does not equate responsiveness? That responsiveness is more training based? The reason I ask is because when I purchase my next horse, I know I want a horse that will be responsive to my aids (I’ve ridden the lazy horse and that was no fun at all. I did more work than the horse.) but not hot because I’m a good enough rider yet to be able to channel a horse’s fire. I guess everyone wants a Valegro. I know, let’s clone him.:lol:
I think a hot horse doesn’t have to be explosive, though certainly some can be. You need that hotness and quickness to really do the work at GP, but it’s not always an explosive personality.
My GP horses have been explosive, with tendencies to to random explosive bucking or needing to go for really long gallops just to chill. My 6 year old now is a very quiet horse and the kind that just likes to have you hold her head, but she is very hot and sensitive, to the point of being overly reactive to aides. So, it doesn’t always go together.
I would describe Valegro as an extremely ATHLETIC horse. I imagine he enjoys using himself and has been trained to be responsive and is very fit. Many "lazy " horses are more unfit and untrained than really lazy as such. I also know that a hot horse becomes a lot more secure and predictable when trained with clear predictable aids 
[QUOTE=luv2ride113;7816495]
Ah, I do remember Carl discussing Valegro’s temperament. So, can I assume that hotness does not equate responsiveness?[/QUOTE]
One is always free to make any assumptions one wishes, but it is perhaps not wise to make any assumptions after discussing the behavior of just one exceptional horse.
Valegro impresses as very athletic and powerful, most particularly balanced and square. I believe the dressage work comes easy for him because of his balance and power. And that probably makes him relaxed and willing to do it… I saw one picture of him rearing sky high with her in a warmup so I’d venture that with different rider or management he would be a bit more difficult. I read they school dressage just 4 days a week (all their horses ) and hack out 2 days.
As far as the rest of us mortals, I’d think responsive and willing rather than hot/not hot would be the focus .
Agree that for dressage a lazy horse can be exhausting.
Can’t speak for Valegro, but will say that not every hot horse will be unpredictable or explosive. I’ve had the opportunity for several months to ride an Iberian stallion. He is hot as in quick off the hind end, responsive to light aid, when he’s worried or not clear he will get strong in your hand, he has a spark and is a bit over-achieving. BUT he has no buck, no rear, no spook, no spin, no naughty. My old TB was very similar. This to me is perfect! But I’m only a scientific study of 2…
I think it depends on the context of the word “hot”.
We most often see “hot” used to describe a horse’s breeding, i.e. “hot-blooded horse”, versus “warmblood” or “cold-blooded horse”. Here, the word “hot” implies a general type of build as well as character: light bodied, refined, quick, agile. These horses also tend towards being more sensitive, having a larger reaction under pressure, etc. This all being the opposite of a “cold-blooded horse”, drafts and draft-type ponies and the like, who tend towards being heavier, courser, slower moving and less of a reaction when under pressure.
But you also have “hot” being used in the context of “hot off the leg” and “hot under saddle”. Both of these could be interpreted a number of different ways. “Hot off the leg” could be a description of a highly trained and in-tune horse, who needs very little leg aid before they respond to the given cue. It could also mean a horse who is anticipatory or worried, who isn’t really listening to the rider’s cues as the cues are given but instead anticipating the leg and then exploding off it. The former is desirable, the latter is not. “Hot under saddle” could describe, say, a working cow horse who knows its job, who would not be for an amateur, and who gets forward and even aggressive when they know it’s time to go to work. Or if could mean a horse who is downright scared, nervous or worried, who is explosive and potentially dangerous/tricky to ride because they are afraid. Again, former could be desirable, latter is not.
Context is everything. In the context of Valegro, seems it’s a positive aspect to his training.
In general (and this is generality), the uber athletic horses are sensitive and very high energy. They have a lot of energy that the rider must channel. If they are not high energy, then creating the energy for the upper level work is harder on everyone. Most “regular” riders (AAs, lower level trainers, whomever) feel safer on a horse with less of that sensitivity and go.
How often have you seen threads on the poor halts in upper level horses? Well, it is much harder to HALT when the horse want to GO, GO, GO. And most international quality upper level horses are somewhere on the spectrum of “I can halt, but it is not my favorite thing to do” all the way to “To hell with halting, I need to move my feet”". While most less secure riders really want a good “whoa” for their own security.
There is such a broad spectrum of sensitivity - most of us want a horse that WILL go when asked, rather then push, push, push. But we don’t want what the top riders want - the explosive power that is always bubbling just below the surface (and sometimes boils over). In fact, you give that to the average rider, and they ride on the defensive, and the horse gets frustrated, the rider gets intimidated, and we get an ugly cycle (which we’ve all seen at shows or clinics).
The question then becomes, HOW responsive are they to external stimuli? I think that is what people mean by hot - it is a combination of that natural “go” along with the horse’s focus on the external. So, some horses are less focused on what is happening in the world and more focused on what they (and their rider who becomes an extension of them) are doing, and others are always in the “Squirrel” mode.
So it is really a spectrum of “hot” along with how it is channeled, both naturally and by the horse’s rider. I suspect Valegro is hotter then MOST of us could handle, but is less externally motivated then some horses - if you look at the horses Anky (for example) rides, she likes them really HOT, and those are often more externally focused too - probably because their brains are always bubbling.
Anky and that school of training creates “hotness”…it is not even hotness as explosive and nerves from being amped up by the rider for that very result.
Valegro exudes easy power vs Anky’s horses which are covered with foam like sweat and veins popping with effort.
Compare Valegros’ tail, how relaxed and straight it hangs, vs Anky’s horses with tails pointed skyward or swishing like a windshield wiper with tension. A tail, the one part a rider can not control, gives away the training of a horse.
i
I found that the term “hot” like the term “green” has many, many different interpretations. It’s not like there is an actual definitive definition of “hot” written down somewhere.
Years ago I had a young Teke/Arab gelding for sale. He was reactive, athletic, super sensitive and (if pushed) could be explosive. I described him as “hot” to a buyer in another state – my point of reference using the term “hot” was from working with TBs in race training.
She assured me she like “hot” horses and came to look at him. After 2 days, she realized he was really far too much horse for her and told me, “He is really hot.” DUH.
Turns out HER point of reference for “hot” were afew over-amped foundation QH’s she once knew who spooked afew times…
“Hot” is one of those terms that could encompass a host of attributes, most of which involve " being reactionary in some obvious (and sometimes extreme) manner to stimuli."
How’s that for an actual definition? 
[QUOTE=Countrywood;7816875]
Anky and that school of training creates “hotness”…it is not even hotness as explosive and nerves from being amped up by the rider for that very result.
Valegro exudes easy power vs Anky’s horses which are covered with foam like sweat and veins popping with effort.
Compare Valegros’ tail, how relaxed and straight it hangs, vs Anky’s horses with tails pointed skyward or swishing like a windshield wiper with tension. A tail, the one part a rider can not control, gives away the training of a horse.
i[/QUOTE]
I would agree with you - but there are plenty of examples of swishing tails - everyone loves Blue Hors Matinee - but watch HER tail, always winding and winding. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that she was also very hot and reactive. But beautifully channeled.
I know Anky’s training methods are controversial, but she is also attracted to a very hot type of horse - that has been journaled many times over the years.
Since I have to work in my WEG in person experience whenever possible LOL…
It was fascinating to watch Valegro while the humans were dismounted and getting their medals. It was almost eerie how he would just very calmly look around the stadium while his groom was holding him. He has an exceptionally intelligent expression and seemed to be taking a very casual approach to the whole thing. Compare that to Parzival who was pretty unhinged about the admittedly very difficult environment - Cornielsson wisely skipped the medal lap and just exited.
After seeing him, all I can say is that he is in a class by himself in every way, as is Charlotte D. I guess I’d call him super focused, super athletic, super talented. But not hot.
Sigh! To be that good and to ride a horse that good! Sigh!
[QUOTE=2tempe;7816749]
Can’t speak for Valegro, but will say that not every hot horse will be unpredictable or explosive. I’ve had the opportunity for several months to ride an Iberian stallion. He is hot as in quick off the hind end, responsive to light aid, when he’s worried or not clear he will get strong in your hand, he has a spark and is a bit over-achieving. BUT he has no buck, no rear, no spook, no spin, no naughty. My old TB was very similar. This to me is perfect! But I’m only a scientific study of 2…[/QUOTE]
My two main horses are both hot. I consider hot to mean excess energy - for both, turnout and an ability to run (or medium trot) off their excess energy is key to their sanity.
My gelding raced and evented, both of which included time where he was held back before he was allowed to go explosively forward - either out of the starting gate or start box for cross country. Now, when his energy is at a level where he can’t contain himself he tries to hold himself back, sucks back behind the leg, and if I can’t get him in front of the leg he BLOWS. That’s what can happen to a hot horse if a rider is overfaced, or in his case where he learned to hold things in until an explosion due to previous careers. At the same time, he’s not spooky. We were riding in a clinic and there was strong gusting wind. As we were trotting past the observation area with sun sail shades blowing in the wind, a folding chair caught the wind, and flew straight at us. He didn’t even flick an ear, just kept going as he was. I, on the other hand, almost overreacted because I didn’t want chair legs wrapped around his legs. Luckily he was correct and we got past that spot before the chair reached it. My horse is AMAZING to ride when he’s in a very hot mood but also in front of the leg. I absolutely love that available power with all work including a constant request of “would you like me to go more? How about more angle in the half pass? I could passage if you wanted even though I don’t know how yet.”
My mare is also high energy, but has only been ridden by me and my trainer, and always allowed to use that energy appropriately. She has a “quick mind” - she appears to always be thinking and looking for something to react to. My start of every ride is using the walk time to get her thinking about me instead of external factors and get her loose and swinging. Pretty much every ride with her is spent with her asking if she can give me more/do more than we’re doing. It’s very, very fun because she channels it into working harder so my job is to maintain her physical health and allow her to gradually increase how much she puts into work. She would NOT be suited for many riders because of that desire to use energy somehow, but compared to my TB she is extremely easy to ride on a very soft contact and control with my seat while allowing her to stretch forward into the contact even at her hottest.
I believe in the wrong home my mare WOULD have developed into an explosive type. She’s only 4, so there’s still time for me to screw up, but her reaction to something scaring her is typically 2-3 trot strides and she stops herself. She’s definitely not explosive, and in fact looks to me for comfidence if she is nervous.
“Hot” is something in their head.
“Sensitive” is in their bodies.
“Hot” and “Sensitive” = an explosive ride.
“Cool” and “Sensitive” = an exceptional ride.
“Cool” and “Dull” = hard work.
You can turn “Cool” in to “Hot” with your training technique.
oldernewbie, that is the same observation I had with Toto at WEG 2010. He was calm and relaxed (trying to eat his ribbon) and took the victory gallop totally in stride with a relaxed gallop on a loose rein. Yet he had to be reactive and “hot” off the aids (though NEVER saw EG box him like Rath has done) for the work he performed. I loved what that showed of Toto’s temperament, plus I like a playful horse!
It’s hard to define. I like Equibrit’s description… though what do we do with the “Hot” and “Dull” ones (they do exist)?
Also like the definition of “hot” as the horse that has a really hard time staying in the halt. A friend has a CDE pony like that. Pony started in the breed ring in Pleasure Driving, where they like 'em hot… and train them to park out, so they can’t get out of the halt quite so easily. So pony’s dressage scores tend to be low, because she can’t be parked out in CDE, and she just wants to GO (sometimes she doesn’t want to walk, either, and awards ceremonies can be “interesting.”) Pony has never met a marathon obstacle or a cones course that phased her; she is extremely brave, handy, and quick. Interestingly, her owner has her at home for the winter and she’s out all day in a big pasture with another horse for the first time in her life, and she’s calmed down a bit, though she’s still hot. And she will quietly stand tied to a trailer for hours. But give her a job and she is ON, with no off-switch.
I used to describe my mare as hot, and she definitely has a streak of it, but she’s really more sensitive than anything, and very, very aware of everything around her. She has really calmed down as she’s gotten older but keeping her focused can be hard.
“Hot” is something that a horse is born with. “Responsiveness” is something that is trained into the horse. “Calmness” is something that is developed when the horse has trust in his rider.
