Vegan Dressage collection

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@Bluey

Since you ask, yes, I think that anyone that has anything to do with horses would automatically be “vehemently opposed to vegan ideology” on principle.

Already explained the important difference between animal welfare, how to properly care for and use our animals, with vegan ideology basically demanding hands-off all animals, period.
Just read vegan material, is all over the internet, their ideas very clearly stated.

Now, if those marketing their saddles want to bring out what they deem better saddles, better as saddles to be used on horses, not as some confused statement on veganism, seems that would make more sense.

Then, making sense is not always necessary in life, so there is that.

Bluey, I never asked if you thought equestrians should all be opposed to veganism (though I find your volunteered answer a bit laughable – even the link you yourself posted shows that many vegans have no problem with horseback riding). What I asked was, do you really think these saddles necessarily promote or require commitment to that specific ideology? I don’t.

Your argument still doesn’t make sense to me. But I think you’ve made it clear whether you’re here to discuss this saddlery line or just to rant about a specific vegan ideology. I’m really not interested in debating the philosophical merits of some “vegan material” on the internet that has no demonstrated relevance to this particular product line.

[Manni01]

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Bluey, do you really think that buying a vegan saddle (i.e. a saddle made with no animal materials) entails a commitment to this ideology that you are so vehemently opposed to? Do you really think that the use of the word vegan in marketing an inanimate object is really meant to promote that ideology? Do you really think that all of us who are interested in products like this because of our views on animal welfare (the “most of us here” you seem to be preaching to) are necessarily vegans?

I personally think that R. Dover is probably smart enough to realize that an alternative to leather has appeal beyond that one narrow ideology you highlight, that intelligent consumers will understand the word to mean “no animal materials”, not “get out the pitchforks and crusade against horseback riding”, and that this product line is “catering to” more than just the card-carrying vegan segment of the market. In other words, I really think the semantics here, when the word vegan is used to modify saddle is just “not leather”.

I don’t think I can spell it out any clearer what the word vegan means when applied to humans vs. inanimate objects. Either you’re willfully misunderstanding the semantics of vegan saddle and/or have a huge chip on your shoulder about veganism, or I need to be a lot more careful about what I’m signing up for when I buy one of the yummy vegan cookies at my local coffee shop… My poor pony will not be happy if our “exploitative relationship” has to end because, as your statements above would suggest, my weakness for an egg-free confection with that word on its label commits me to or promotes a certain ideology!

Anyway, back to the topic of saddles:

Is it confirmed that they’re using remnants from Tesla synthetic seats, as @Kemosabe says? IMO using waste material from another manufacturing process is better from an environmental standpoint than developing and manufacturing a whole new type of synthetic material just for saddles. It will be interesting to hear more about the materials…

I think it’s @Manni01 who expressed some disappointment in how vegan “leather” seats have been wearing in a car – if this tack wears badly and becomes unpleasant to ride in or less functional over time, that’s a problem. Like a lot of the synthetic/plastic things that most of us remorselessly use in our modern lives (carpets, automobile interior trim, durable storage containers) vs. regretfully (plastic silverware, clamshell packaging), the useful lifespan of the object matters. A saddle I’m going to ride in for 10 years, and maybe sell to someone who’ll get another 5+ years use out of it is different to my environmental calculus than one that becomes less functional after two years of use, or deteriorates cosmetically so fast that it can’t be resold if it stops fitting my horse. What @DMK has shared about synthetic harness is promising, but I suppose it’s hard to extrapolate to this new line until we know more about what it’s made of.

@Manni01, I’ll be curious what you find out at the launch event. And it will be even more interesting to see how these saddles wear when they’ve been around for a few years and people have put them through their paces.

I am very curious too but I am not sure about vegan saddles presented in that Lauch… I only saw bridles and other tack… But I booked my room yesterday so now I only need somebody to look for my horses and then I am good to go!

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@Manni01

I am very curious too but I am not sure about vegan saddles presented in that Lauch… I only saw bridles and other tack… But I booked my room yesterday so now I only need somebody to look for my horses and then I am good to go!

Ah. Thanks for the clarification!

[MissAriel]

@DMK - thanks for that information. I have no first hand experience with driving or harnesses, so it is great to hear your positive review. I didn’t mean to ignore driving as a discipline, I just didn’t know how much synthetics were used in harness, but I always appreciate getting to learn something new here.

I guess the jury will be out how these will perform until we get a real idea of what materials will be used in this line, but I’m hopeful that there will be some improvements both from ethical and performance parameters.

[DMK]

@MissAriel no worries. Most people rarely see a harness close up much less know what they are made of.

My first harness (almost 40 years ago) was leather. I was constantly repairing that thing. Years later (mid 90’s) I got one of the early synthetic harnesses and I LOVED it, but there was no mistaking it for anything BUT synthetic. The only thing that looked vaguely authentic was the parts that were supposed to look like patent leather (blinkers, portions of the saddle), because SHINY is easy for synthetics. More recently I got back into driving and bought a Yonies harness. The difference in the look, structure and feel has progressed so far. When I first ordered it I figured I would make it 5 minutes before I caved and got leather reins (like I did with the original synthetic in the 90’s) A year later and I still haven’t got around to it and I doubt I will bother.

[Manni01]

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Ah. Thanks for the clarification!

I have to apologize, This article also talks about saddles. So I guess I will know more once I went to the launch! https://www.noellefloyd.com/blogs/style/vegan-is-the-new-leather-robert-dover-robert-ross-launch-animal-friendly-tack-and-apparel-company-robert-squared?fbclid=IwAR0P3Sd-BM3_ZFJ306YTI19QkfNfkAk0ufkvm-ACC8zRtSchKqeMCPM1nXw

[Mardi]

The Noelle Floyd link is an infomercial, not a news report.

By the way, any idea where the tack and clothing will be made ?

[skydy]

@Mardi

The Noelle Floyd link is an infomercial, not a news report.

By the way, any idea where the tack and clothing will be made ?

It is unclear where the tack is being manufactured as of yet.
I’ve asked the same question. Manni is going to the launch and said that she will ask and will report back.

For all the discussion here about Vegans, I think the “vegan-ness” of the tack is just a clever marketing term for “not leather”.

I’d guess that “Luxury Vegan tack” sounds more commercially appealing than “Luxury Synthetic tack”, for some buyers. :yes:

[Manni01]

@skydy

It is unclear where the tack is being manufactured as of yet.
I’ve asked the same question. Manni is going to the launch and said that she will ask and will report back.

For all the discussion here about Vegans, I think the “vegan-ness” of the tack is just a clever marketing term for “not leather”.

I’d guess that “Luxury Vegan tack” sounds more commercially appealing than “Luxury Synthetic tack”, for some buyers. :yes:

That’s not how I would look at it… if you are vegan, the first thing you learn is to check anything you plan to eat. (I think that is a good thing because it makes you really aware of what people sell you). Vegan means no animal testing and no animal by products… Not sure if there are rules for Synthetic…

[fancy.pants]

Wow. I’m a vegan (I don’t eat animal products). I had no idea that I believed that no one should be riding horses! Bluey, don’t lump all vegans together. There are many types of Christians, for instance, with different levels of beliefs about controlling others, recruiting them, or letting people with other beliefs live their own lives. It is the same with being a vegan.
I chose my path to a great degree because I love my animals so much. Cows and pigs are sentient beings, just like my horses. I don’t want to be part of the system that raises and kills them, when it is not physically necessary for me to eat them. I don’t expect others to share my views, and I don’t preach to them. If you had a meal with me, most likely you would not know I was vegan. I just quietly choose what I want to eat.
I’ve always been conflicted about using leather. Up until now, I haven’t seen an option that would work for me. I am also going to Robert’s launch. I’m hoping for the best.

[Absolut_Equestrian]

Robert is keeping an eye on you, COTH ladies! :winkgrin: He recently posted:

2 weeks to go and you will be able to have whatever you need. BTW, there’s a long thread on COTH about ROBERT-SQUARED and it is quite amazing how people can make up their own taking points about our line. Apparently, someone decided we are using remnants from Tesla’s and Mercedes’s interiors. NO WE ARE NOT. I just got the idea from learning that Tesla and Mercedes were no longer offering leather interiors in their cars.
Other’s are saying we are only selling to people who can afford the most expensive tack and apparel. ALSO INCORRECT. We will have many price points and are committed to using only eco-friendly materials. If we ever do use plastic at all, we promise it will only be recycled plastic from our oceans.
As has been the case with my entire career, I am committed to excellence with this endeavor as is my entire team at ROBERT-SQUARED.

[skydy]

If using plastic, it will only plastic from “the oceans”?

There must be a very specific recycling source for this tack line, since the vast majority of plastics are recycled from the refuse of homes and business, not fished out of the ocean.

No matter the origin of the plastic (kudos if it’s verifiably pulled out of the sea), where the material is actually processed, is of interest and importance. As I mentioned in a previous post, recycled plastic from China is of dubious merit . Recycled does not necessarily = eco-friendly.

I have no issues with synthetic tack if that is what some people want. I just hope that the eco-friendly claims are well researched.

[CanteringCarrot]

And I’m already over it.

Great professional response.

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@Manni01

I know that R.Dover said on his FB Page that it’s eco friendly and that there is no PVC or plastic involved… I am also looking forward to the launch!

My bet is on polyurethane, which is not plastic or PVC, but is still a petroleum based product. To my knowledge there is no regulatory restriction on the use of the term “eco-friendly” so it’s easy to throw that around as well.

The Roberts and their partners are marketing geniuses - creating an “exclusive” synthetic product to appeal to people who feel Wintec, Thorowgood, Tekna etc. are beneath them. I wish I had thought of it first!

[trubandloki]

I was hoping to see an update on here since the product launch was yesterday. @Manni01 how did the launch go? What can you tell us about the new product?

[js]

How was the launch of the new vegan line of saddles and equipment? Any pictures?

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It’s nice to have some questions answered straight from the horse’s mouth. I had a feeling that the auto seat material remnants thing got twisted into a purported fact through the “game of telephone” effect that sometimes happens on forums, and not because this line was using Tesla castoffs.

Regarding @skydy’s questions, there is at least one company out there that recovers discarded plastic fishing nets from marine environments and uses them to create a plastic material, so it is possible to source materials recycled primarily from marine plastic waste. I don’t know of any environmental justice campaigns that are successfully distributing the impacts of synthetic materials manufacture/recycling to wealthy nations (and their more tightly regulated environments), though, so I don’t know that the question of origin/location of manufacture is one that the world yet has an answer to, let alone a single saddlery company.

But given that the environmental costs of essentially all competing products (leather or synthetic) are also disproportionately borne by less wealthy nations, I don’t see this as a problem unique to this product line. Hopefully we’ll soon have some details about what makes these materials eco-friendly. Given how much human production in a general sense correlates with environmental destruction, I’m willing to accept that term as applied to any man-made object as essentially meaning “eco-friendlier”. If there is any small, incremental advance over traditional materials, that seems valuable to me. And incorporating materials that make small advances into high quality products and raising awareness of environmental issues can even create a premium for environmentally conscious products/production that could potentially drive further innovation and advance w.r.t. environmental impacts of durable goods manufacture. I guess I’d rather see a (well marketed) baby step forward that could lead tack manufacture more generally onto a less destructive path than maintenance of the status quo just because no perfect solutions have yet been found.

Very curious to hear what people learned at the product launch!

[skydy]

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It’s nice to have some questions answered straight from the horse’s mouth. I had a feeling that the auto seat material remnants thing got twisted into a purported fact through the “game of telephone” effect that sometimes happens on forums, and not because this line was using Tesla castoffs.

Regarding @skydy’s questions, there is at least one company out there that recovers discarded plastic fishing nets from marine environments and uses them to create a plastic material, so it is possible to source materials recycled primarily from marine plastic waste. I don’t know of any environmental justice campaigns that are successfully distributing the impacts of synthetic materials manufacture/recycling to wealthy nations (and their more tightly regulated environments), though, so I don’t know that the question of origin/location of manufacture is one that the world yet has an answer to, let alone a single saddlery company.

But given that the environmental costs of essentially all competing products (leather or synthetic) are also disproportionately borne by less wealthy nations, I don’t see this as a problem unique to this product line. Hopefully we’ll soon have some details about what makes these materials eco-friendly. Given how much human production in a general sense correlates with environmental destruction, I’m willing to accept that term as applied to any man-made object as essentially meaning “eco-friendlier”. If there is any small, incremental advance over traditional materials, that seems valuable to me. And incorporating materials that make small advances into high quality products and raising awareness of environmental issues can even create a premium for environmentally conscious products/production that could potentially drive further innovation and advance w.r.t. environmental impacts of durable goods manufacture. I guess I’d rather see a (well marketed) baby step forward that could lead tack manufacture more generally onto a less destructive path than maintenance of the status quo just because no perfect solutions have yet been found.

Very curious to hear what people learned at the product launch!

I’m curious to learn exactly how this line of synthetic tack leads tack manufacturing onto a “less destructive path”. It is a fair question when tack is advertised as “eco-friendly”.

I hope to hear specifics from people who attended the product launch as well.

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@skydy

I’m curious to learn exactly how this line of synthetic tack leads tack manufacturing onto a “less destructive path”. It is a fair question when tack is advertised as “eco-friendly”.

I hope to hear specifics from people who attended the product launch as well.

Agreed on the curiosity about how specifically this tack is eco-friendly (eco-friendlier). The “less destructive path” is a potential benefit of a successful launch of high-quality eco-friendly tack – if consumers are willing to pay for eco-friendly options other manufacturers will certainly start offering them. Much remains to be seen, but I’ll keep my inner skeptic reined in until we actually get some info on the materials and their eco-friendly properties.

[soloudinhere]

@js

How was the launch of the new vegan line of saddles and equipment? Any pictures?

The website is live if a $5,500 plastic saddle is your thing.