Manni will be at the “product launch” and will report back about where the saddlery is manufactured, what materials the products are made from (what makes them “eco-freindly”?) and if they seem to be of good quality. Only time will tell regarding durability.
It will be interesting to see how these “luxury” synthetic products are priced in comparison to good leather and the currently available synthetic tack.
The “luxury” label seems to indicate that the synthetic vegan saddlery will be pricey.
“Most of us here” don’t seem to understand what vegan is.
No, vegan is not “just about animal welfare”, read more about vegan ideology.
Animal welfare is not if we do use or not animals, but how to do so humanely.
The basic premise of vegans is that we don’t have a right to use animals, INCLUDING horses, especially riding horses.
That link was not “just one person”, it was the first of pages of such links.
Google “vegans and riding horses”.
Read more about it.
People can call themselves vegans and only pick and choose what part of vegan they want to follow.
Then insist their kind of animal and use is exempt.
That is ignoring the reality of what vegan is based on.
Marketing something for our use of horses by some that basically think we should not use animals?
That just seems such a contradiction, no matter how it is presented.
THAT was my point here, right on topic with this new tack as it is marketed, catering to an extremist animal rights ideology that is working to eliminate all we do with horses.
Just one more opinion.
It appears Dover’s new line is using excess or remnants of Tesla’s vegan seats. Tesla’s seats are vinyl or polyurethane which is environmentally costly. On one bulletin board for Tesla cars, a Tesla owner claimed the car dealership in Ohio said the seats were made from soy, but there is nothing on Tesla’s website, press releases, etc about using soy.
I am going to the launch too hoping we get a full disclosure of what the vegan tack is made from.
Yes. One opinion, in which you state everyone else’s opinion about veganism is wrong, based on a Google search. If you don’t like the idea of vegan tack, don’t buy it. Simple.
This was my first thought when I saw “luxury” synthetic products. Obviously appealing to a specific buying group. We’ve had synthetic saddles etc. for sometime, Wintec, Tekna, Thorogood, etc. Not sure they are considered “vegan” synthetic but will be interesting to see how they compare, especially on price. There has always been a bit of a stigma riding synthetic v/s leather so we’ll see who rides the luxury version and how long it lasts.
Thank you and I believe, I might be wrong, that the word luxury is used to point out that it is not simply cheap washable plastic tack. My son got himself vegan shoes and they are amazing so far…
I would recommend that you do some real research… Maybe start another thread for it I am sure many people would like to help you. Vegan is not equal vegan. And go and read R.Dovers website… there seem to be a lot of vegan riders!
I know that R.Dover said on his FB Page that it’s eco friendly and that there is no PVC or plastic involved… I am also looking forward to the launch!
People can indeed make choices to go as far as they want… but then you are suggesting that there is a right direction, so what’s at the end of this road?
That’s what Bluey is bringing to the table.
It’s no mystery what the vegan agenda is.
Fact is we live in a world where horrible things happen… Did you read about the millions of poor chicken and pigs who died when the hurricane hit this year? Nobody even tried to save them because it wasn’t possible… I guess the insurance paid and they were supposed to die anyhow… they were raised to be eaten…
What about the Puerto Ricain folks?
What about the Indonesian folks?
We know we live in a world where horrible things happen. But life hasn’t been as good as of now.
Statistically, there is more civil rights, animal rights, laws and rules than ever.
Animals, like it or not, are better kept and taken care of in all industries and/or sphere of the society.
why is it bad if a person thinks that she does not want to support this? Why does she also need to stop having horses and pets? Sure if she chooses to do this it’s ok, but its her /his personal choice… if the person wants vegan shoes or bags or tack, personal choice as well… why do they need to hear from persons who are not even trying a bit to improve the situation that they are doing wrong??
And there lies the lie.
People can do what they want.
But veganism isn’t helping much animals.
They are not killing them directly, yes.
They are condemning to death in many other ways.
And I’d rather own a leather saddle that will last me decades and will easily desintegrate than buying a plastic one who won’t last for it’s job but sure last hundred years.
Canola, soy and other vegetable products aren’t better for the environment, they take up lots of forest lands and do empoverish the ground.
Tofu is an ecoligical disaster and with the new Brazilian president… it will just grow worse.
Vegan is just a trend of the wealthy who look down on others thinking they are doing the right thing…
I prefer eating fresh products locally (vegetables/fruits/meat), buy in bulk, buy clothes made of natural fibers, vote for more strict animal rights laws and stay away from the damn plastic.
I’m wondering which existing saddleries they have partnered with.
Hoping it’s not Dover.
Oh, but I did some “real” research, that is why I read this thread.
Just seemed strange to see “Vegan Dressage collection”.
Using the animals we choose to use, the way we choose to use them and not others and deciding that is maybe vegan enough?
Questionable given what vegan stands for, why I questioned it.
Then, if it works for some, why not?
Charles Tota, Dressage connection, from Florida.
He used to deal with Hennig and other high end saddle brands.
Not a saddle maker, as far as I can tell.
He is.
He just doesn’t have his own saddle line, which I believe he had at some point.
His bridles are very nice.
He’s more than just a saddle fitter or a representative/seller.
Are they made from real vegans?:rolleyes:
Actually most drivers use synthetic harness for all phases or at least for marathon, where strength and reliability is at a premium. All of my harness to carriage attachment points have special (code for expen$ive) tension free quick release shackles or buckles because that harness is not likely to break. We also keep a pocket knife in the spares kit for that same reason. It’s not likely to break, which to me is a good thing, because that is what quick release crown attachments, snaps and lead rope knots are for. I want those things to do their job, not other things to fail to do their job.
My observations on beta (not exactly what he is doing, but he’s presumably getting to the same kind of synthetic material but with a higher price tag/more marketing dollars attached) is that it is practically indistinguishable from leather even close up. The feel is not quite the same but it is different and in some ways better. I actually like my beta driving reins more than my super soft stubben dressage reins with lots of stops or laced reins. They are soft but grippy, even without stops.
Easy to clean? Given there is a LOT of harness to clean, it makes me very happy to drop the whole thing in a muck bucket of sudsy water, wipe off with a sponge, then rinse and let dry. And on muddy days (all of them, lately) it’s easy to quickly spray off the breeching, girth and traces just to get the worst of the mess off after a drive. I also love the complete lack of green tack to deal with in the summer! (OK, I had a lot of green tack, it just wasn’t harness)
Stretchiness is minimal, although I think it has more give when it is warm, but overall not nearly as much as leather. As for texture and stiffness I think that could be managed. My reins are buttery soft, but all the rest of the harness (especially the traces) are not that bendy, for lack of a better term. Also the saddle is flocked like a riding saddle, and holds it’s shape well. And stitching is stitching, it can wear out, just like anything else so you need to check it regularly.
Here’s a link to a pic of the harness, if you click on the pic it will go to full size, everything is synthetic except the blinkers and the crown
Probably
Thank you for this post. My neighbor is a driver and Inoticed that she has these harnesses as well!!
Bluey, do you really think that buying a vegan saddle (i.e. a saddle made with no animal materials) entails a commitment to this ideology that you are so vehemently opposed to? Do you really think that the use of the word vegan in marketing an inanimate object is really meant to promote that ideology? Do you really think that all of us who are interested in products like this because of our views on animal welfare (the “most of us here” you seem to be preaching to) are necessarily vegans?
I personally think that R. Dover is probably smart enough to realize that an alternative to leather has appeal beyond that one narrow ideology you highlight, that intelligent consumers will understand the word to mean “no animal materials”, not “get out the pitchforks and crusade against horseback riding”, and that this product line is “catering to” more than just the card-carrying vegan segment of the market. In other words, I really think the semantics here, when the word vegan is used to modify saddle is just “not leather”.
I don’t think I can spell it out any clearer what the word vegan means when applied to humans vs. inanimate objects. Either you’re willfully misunderstanding the semantics of vegan saddle and/or have a huge chip on your shoulder about veganism, or I need to be a lot more careful about what I’m signing up for when I buy one of the yummy vegan cookies at my local coffee shop… My poor pony will not be happy if our “exploitative relationship” has to end because, as your statements above would suggest, my weakness for an egg-free confection with that word on its label commits me to or promotes a certain ideology!
Anyway, back to the topic of saddles:
Is it confirmed that they’re using remnants from Tesla synthetic seats, as @Kemosabe says? IMO using waste material from another manufacturing process is better from an environmental standpoint than developing and manufacturing a whole new type of synthetic material just for saddles. It will be interesting to hear more about the materials…
I think it’s @Manni01 who expressed some disappointment in how vegan “leather” seats have been wearing in a car – if this tack wears badly and becomes unpleasant to ride in or less functional over time, that’s a problem. Like a lot of the synthetic/plastic things that most of us remorselessly use in our modern lives (carpets, automobile interior trim, durable storage containers) vs. regretfully (plastic silverware, clamshell packaging), the useful lifespan of the object matters. A saddle I’m going to ride in for 10 years, and maybe sell to someone who’ll get another 5+ years use out of it is different to my environmental calculus than one that becomes less functional after two years of use, or deteriorates cosmetically so fast that it can’t be resold if it stops fitting my horse. What @DMK has shared about synthetic harness is promising, but I suppose it’s hard to extrapolate to this new line until we know more about what it’s made of.
@Manni01, I’ll be curious what you find out at the launch event. And it will be even more interesting to see how these saddles wear when they’ve been around for a few years and people have put them through their paces.
Since you ask, yes, I think that anyone that has anything to do with horses would automatically be “vehemently opposed to vegan ideology” on principle.
Already explained the important difference between animal welfare, how to properly care for and use our animals, with vegan ideology basically demanding hands-off all animals, period.
Just read vegan material, is all over the internet, their ideas very clearly stated.
Now, if those marketing their saddles want to bring out what they deem better saddles, better as saddles to be used on horses, not as some confused statement on veganism, seems that would make more sense.
Then, making sense is not always necessary in life, so there is that.
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