Vegan Dressage collection

[Bluey]

Folks, it is not a contradiction to follow a strange mindset that decries the human animal using other animals, as we do, as the resources we all evolved with here, in this little blue marble?

All animals evolved in a symbiotic relationship to each other, including humans using for it’s own human purposes other animals, as others used us also for their own.

Strange to insist now all animals are off limits to the human animal.

More strange yet to then choose to excuse that we can use some hand picked ones at will, here horses.
Horses being definitively an animal and a domestic one at that, clearly only raised for our purposes.

Never mind, but it seems that something is not quite adding up.

[fordtraktor]

@Bluey

Folks, it is not a contradiction to follow a strange mindset that decries the human animal using other animals, as we do, as the resources we all evolved with here, in this little blue marble?

All animals evolved in a symbiotic relationship to each other, including humans using for it’s own human purposes other animals, as others used us also for their own.

Strange to insist now all animals are off limits to the human animal.

More strange yet to then choose to excuse that we can use some hand picked ones at will, here horses.
Horses being definitively an animal and a domestic one at that, clearly only raised for our purposes.

Never mind, but it seems that something is not quite adding up.

No, I don’t believe it is the big mystery you think. Eating animals is not the same as having a pet, which is what my vegan friends with horses have. My good friend is vegan and her horses are cared for better than many people’s kids, despite the fact they have been retired for many years. I think her positions are very consistent.

[skydy]

@Manni01

Well another thing I just got tickets for the product launch :). I am excited!!!

Did you have to pay for tickets?
I can’t imagine paying for the privilege of seeing what someone wants to sell to me.

[Highflyer]

@Bluey

Folks, it is not a contradiction to follow a strange mindset that decries the human animal using other animals, as we do, as the resources we all evolved with here, in this little blue marble?

All animals evolved in a symbiotic relationship to each other, including humans using for it’s own human purposes other animals, as others used us also for their own.

Strange to insist now all animals are off limits to the human animal.

More strange yet to then choose to excuse that we can use some hand picked ones at will, here horses.
Horses being definitively an animal and a domestic one at that, clearly only raised for our purposes.

Never mind, but it seems that something is not quite adding up.

Do you eat your horses once they stop being rideable? Make clothing or furniture out of their skins? Why not, if you eat cows and use their skins? They’re all domestic animals. Doesn’t add up.

[rockonxox]

I don’t believe you have to purchase tickets. It was either an invitation that went out or you can RSVP on social media (where the below press release was found).

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Celebrate the Launch of Robert-Squared
Robert Dover and Robert Ross are excited to announce the official launch of their new company, ROBERT-SQUARED on Tuesday, February 12th, 2019, from 6:30pm to 9:00pm at 2130 Windsock Way, Wellington, FL.

The company is the brainchild of Dover, who around 6 months ago was on a drive in his Tesla, listening to NPR. The program announced that Mercedes was following in Tesla’s footsteps by no longer offering leather interior and now will only offer Luxury Vegan leather. Inspired by the product quality and ethical movement of Tesla and Mercedes, Dover decided that he and Ross should do the same for the Equestrian Industry. Since that day, Dover and Ross have been partnering with Charlie Tota of The Dressage Connection, along with top craftsmen, artisans, and manufacturers around the world to create the first full line of impeccably beautiful Luxury Vegan tack and apparel for Dressage, Jumpers, Hunters, and Ponies. With great attention to detail, results have been nothing less than fantastic!

ROBERT SQUARED will offer products which look and feel like the finest leather and are crafted to the state of perfection that Dover and Ross are known for. From gorgeous saddles and bridles, halters, leads, to boots, paddock boots and gloves, belts, and even collars and leashes for your dogs. Robert Dover, President and Co-Founder of ROBERT-SQUARED stated, “Robert and I are extremely proud to be incorporating our life-long experience as horsemen along with our passion for the ethical treatment of animals to create this amazing, top quality, line of Luxury Vegan Equestrian Ware.”

There are a multitude of reasons why fellow Equestrians would choose ROBERT-SQUARED for their tack and apparel needs: •Cleans easier using only soap and water •No need to oil as it is comes in the perfect color and feel •Non-stretch materials •No drying or cracking like leather for longer lasting products •Only eco-friendly materials are used, therefore much better for our environment •100% hand-stitched, even down to the bridle keepers •NOT ONE ANIMAL DIES TO PRODUCE OUR PRODUCTS! 10% annually of profits from ROBERT-SQUARED will go to the following 4 charities: •Brooke Foundation •Animal Equality International •Danny and Ron’s Rescue •The Equestrian Aid Foundation

The ROBERT-SQUARED Motto is “ETHICALLY ELEGANT EQUESTRIAN WARE” For more information contact: Robert Dover at info@robertsquared.com or call 1-800-690-7525

[Manni01]

@skydy

Did you have to pay for tickets?
I can’t imagine paying for the privilege of seeing what someone wants to sell to me.

No I did a RSVP to the mentioned email :). But now I am really looking forward to it. And I hope I can touch the tack and check the quality!!

[Manni01]

@rockonxox

I don’t believe you have to purchase tickets. It was either an invitation that went out or you can RSVP on social media (where the below press release was found).

Yes that’s what I did and I think the press release sounds promising!

[x-halt-salute]

@Bluey

Folks, it is not a contradiction to follow a strange mindset that decries the human animal using other animals, as we do, as the resources we all evolved with here, in this little blue marble?

All animals evolved in a symbiotic relationship to each other, including humans using for it’s own human purposes other animals, as others used us also for their own.

Strange to insist now all animals are off limits to the human animal.

More strange yet to then choose to excuse that we can use some hand picked ones at will, here horses.
Horses being definitively an animal and a domestic one at that, clearly only raised for our purposes.

Never mind, but it seems that something is not quite adding up.

As far as I can see, nobody is decrying humans using other animals in this thread. Some of us make personal decisions about our own participation in activities that cause animal suffering that don’t jibe with your worldview. So what? You may think we have evolved to use animals as a resource and doing so is some natural right; some of us believe we have evolved further, to a point where we can minimize the harm we do to other animals as we go about our human lives. It’s a matter of opinion and personal choice.

I do not understand the argument you are trying to make that human history of domestication and current riding of horses is somehow inconsistent with not wanting to kill animals for specific purposes (like making saddles from their hides). Nor did all animal species evolve in some grand symbiotic relationship (disadvantageous and destructive relationships abound in nature). Nor is it a “strange mindset” for a human to be uneasy about harming/exploiting other animals.

Perhaps the miscommunication hinges around the fact that the adjective vegan, when applied to a human, entails a philosophy that seeks to exclude as far as possible the exploitation of animals. When used to describe an object (as in vegan saddle or vegan cookie) it just means that the object contains no animal-derived materials (like leather or butter). Supporting the concept of a vegan tack range doesn’t necessarily entail a commitment to eliminating all exploitation/use of animals, or “decrying the human animal using other animals”. It just means we wouldn’t mind having a decent saddle option to consider that isn’t made of the hide of a dead animal. Is that really so strange?

[skydy]

@Manni01

No I did a RSVP to the mentioned email :). But now I am really looking forward to it. And I hope I can touch the tack and check the quality!!

Oh that’s good! Have fun, and let us know how it goes. :yes:

[MissAriel]

@Manni01

No I did a RSVP to the mentioned email :). But now I am really looking forward to it. And I hope I can touch the tack and check the quality!!

Sounds like we have at least one COTH-er who can hopefully report back on the new lines. Sounds like it would be fun and possibly informative.

[Manni01]

Yes ! I will report back for sure

[skydy]

Manni, will you please ask where the tack is manufactured? In the article Dover says that they have collaborated with manufacturers and artisans etc… from “around the world”. It will be interesting to know where the tack is made.

[Manni01]

@skydy

Manni, will you please ask where the tack is manufactured? In the article Dover says that they have collaborated with manufacturers and artisans etc… from “around the world”. It will be interesting to know where the tack is made.

Sure I will. And it also said that they worked with Tesla and Mercedes who are using vegan leather in their cars. And I don’t know if that’s good. My hubby has a car with vegan leather seats and I am not thrilled about the durability so far :(. It looks pretty crappy after one year already. So I hope the tack is better quality…

[slp2]

You may think we have evolved to use animals as a resource and doing so is some natural right; some of us believe we have evolved further, to a point where we can minimize the harm we do to other animals as we go about our human lives. It’s a matter of opinion and personal choice.

Thank you x-halt-salute! Well said and good response to an odd viewpoint. I am always hopeful that the human race HAS evolved to the point that it bothers us to raise and kill animals for food. Especially since we don’t need to eat meat to survive. And, from a sustainability standpoint, we can feed SO many more people with food that is lower on the food chain (i.e. grains used for food rather than feeding it to cattle, to be slaughtered for beef). But I can’t be high and mighty myself because I own a big, gas guzzling truck just to haul my horse trailer. There is nothing eco-friendly, or even practical about that! However, in the rest of my life, I try to be thoughtful about the choices I make with respect to the environment and being ethical to animals. Far from perfect, but making an effort to reduce my impact.

So if I have a choice of a really good quality tack, that doesn’t require killing an animal—that would be a selling point for me. It’s not going to save the planet, or undo my carbon footprint thus far—but it’s something!

[Mardi]

@Manni01

Well another thing I just got tickets for the product launch :). I am excited!!!

How much $$$ ?

[Bluey]

@slp2

Thank you x-halt-salute! Well said and good response to an odd viewpoint. I am always hopeful that the human race HAS evolved to the point that it bothers us to raise and kill animals for food. Especially since we don’t need to eat meat to survive. And, from a sustainability standpoint, we can feed SO many more people with food that is lower on the food chain (i.e. grains used for food rather than feeding it to cattle, to be slaughtered for beef). But I can’t be high and mighty myself because I own a big, gas guzzling truck just to haul my horse trailer. There is nothing eco-friendly, or even practical about that! However, in the rest of my life, I try to be thoughtful about the choices I make with respect to the environment and being ethical to animals. Far from perfect, but making an effort to reduce my impact.

So if I have a choice of a really good quality tack, that doesn’t require killing an animal—that would be a selling point for me. It’s not going to save the planet, or undo my carbon footprint thus far—but it’s something!

Directly from the horse’s mouth:

https://www.veganlifemag.com/vegans-horse-riding/

[Manni01]

@Bluey

Directly from the horse’s mouth:

https://www.veganlifemag.com/vegans-horse-riding/

Not sure what you are trying to say… it’s the choice of each single person how far he wants to go… I believe any step in the right direction is a good step! Fact is we live in a world where horrible things happen… Did you read about the millions of poor chicken and pigs who died when the hurricane hit this year? Nobody even tried to save them because it wasn’t possible… I guess the insurance paid and they were supposed to die anyhow… they were raised to be eaten… why is it bad if a person thinks that she does not want to support this? Why does she also need to stop having horses and pets? Sure if she chooses to do this it’s ok, but its her /his personal choice… if the person wants vegan shoes or bags or tack, personal choice as well… why do they need to hear from persons who are not even trying a bit to improve the situation that they are doing wrong??

[skydy]

@Bluey

Directly from the horse’s mouth:

https://www.veganlifemag.com/vegans-horse-riding/

Only one horse’s mouth really…

Now, I’m neither vegan nor vegetarian. I have always loved leather tack and never used anything else (except a “biothane”? grooming halter for wash time).

I can’t believe that any one person speaks for the entire group. I think veganism is a bit radical, but people are entitled to choose their own way in the world. The person you linked to is obviously an advocate of a more radical version of “vegan” who probably doesn’t speak for most “vegan” horse owners.

[x-halt-salute]

@Bluey

Directly from the horse’s mouth:

https://www.veganlifemag.com/vegans-horse-riding/

Bluey, do you have anything to say about this new line of non-leather tack, or are you just here with a bone to pick about veganism?

The people here who’ve expressed interest in this new tack range all seem to be reasonable, non-proselytizing, animal welfare-conscious folk from a wide range of positions on a philosophical spectrum that ranges from just liking animals to a logical extreme within veganism. The kind of militant veganism you seem to have a problem with really hasn’t come up in this thread, so I’m really not sure what this link or your earlier musing have to do with being interested in synthetic saddles.

Most of us here are not conflicted about horseback riding – we strive to ride harmoniously and to be good guardians for our equine dependents, and in general do not believe our horses are exploited. Most of us have pondered the ethics of our choices in far more depth than that rather odd link provides, and find no logical or ethical conundrum in participating in conscientious equestrianism while trying to minimize our use of products that necessarily require animal suffering and death. Your prior point about animal domestication, horseback riding, and interest in non-leather tack remains totally opaque to me.

And just so we’re on the same page, this thread is about a specific line of vegan tack not vegan people as a group. If you’re still not sure why this link is irrelevant, see above for some clarification about how the use of vegan objects does not require a full embrace of any particular vegan philosophy.

[CanteringCarrot]

I’m intrigued. I’m not sure that it will take off or stick around for a long time, but I’d love to be wrong on that. There is definitely a market for it, but a smaller market, so I am not sure how profitable it will be. I’d like to think it is more about animal welfare, but I know that the creators and investors have profit in mind for sure. So I am interested to see how the business model works out.
​​​​​​

​​​​​​Is this going to be a product only the wealthy can afford? What (maybe I missed it) will the price point be? People will pay for quality and the vegan appeal, but will this be a product for the average horse owner? The word luxury makes me think not.

I’m also interested in the materials, process, and durability of it all. Good and well cared for leather will last ages, contrary to what the article says about cracking, stretching, and so on. If this product can compete with leather on the level of quality, longevity, and price, then I think it has a shot. Yes, some will pay more for the vegan/animal welfare aspect of it, but again, is that a large market?

I am all for animal welfare and alternative products, so I like the idea of it all. I could go on about animal welfare in the country where I live, but I don’t even want to get started on that one. I’m looking forward to some more details and first hand experiences with these products.