@FjordBCRF I’m sure that my farrier has been trimming him properly and regularly since I got him (he didn’t actually “trim “ when here Monday …just rounded him up until he comes back next week…he’s never once mentioned any cause for concern -he certainly would have if he saw something …I’ve dealt with laminitis a few times and I’m very familiar with it as is my farrier…my horse has no heat , no pulses, X-rays show no rotation or sinking …just 8mm sole depth and he’s been walking on his soles literally …like I said also good weight/body condition, in regular work 3-5 days/week and already eats a low sugar & starch diet …we took blood to cover bases and have a baseline to be cautious…and previously has been on grass his entire life without issue …the only thing that possibly maybe could’ve triggered an inflammatory laminitis response could of been from getting his first USA vaccines in which he had a mild reaction despite getting banamine.
@JB is there a problem with him getting Purina Outlast ? I do have him on that and he loves it …it’s also my taste tempter at the moment for transitioning to this new forage based diet …I know the ECIR group doesn’t recommend it or have it on the approved list …I’m going on the assumption of EMS /IR just in case until I have lab results…I’ve been giving him 1 cup/day …hoping it’s not doing more harm than good.
This was exactly my horse to a T. It can still happen. I’d be even more open minded to it if you are certain you have a good farrier. My guy also has reactions to vaccines (extremely high fevers) though we had better luck with a different brand this spring.
Yes …I’m very certain I have a good knowledgeable competent farrier …University of Pennsylvania New Bolten centers farrier has seen my guys work on my others and has told me he does a great job
Flare and chipping are usually about hoof trim management primarily
Hooves grow faster in summer and the ground is harder. Flare and chip are the ways horses self trim if their walls are getting too long. It’s not as pretty as a proper trim and yes, too much can come off. It’s like ripping at your nails while driving versus getting a manicure.
No amount of good nutrition will keep a horses hooves from self trimming if it’s needed
You need to be on top of your trimmer cycle and get a rasp to push the feet back between trims. Short walls don’t crack off.
Of course cover all the other bases. But you won’t see results of your feeding at the wall touching ground for a year.
I like Omniety as I’m in Canada.
The ECIR group does an immense amount of value work that has saved countless lives. Just remember they’re coming from a perspective of really serious medical/metabolic issues, which is why their requirements for approval of things is very strict. There are LOTS of IR/EMS and PPID horses who live very happily and healthily a bit outside their hard and fast rules. This includes Outlast, it includes rataion balancer that are higher than 10% NSC, and various other things.
If I knew a horse was in a laminitic state due to IR that got out of control, Outlast or anything non-approved would be out the door at least until things settled down. I’d remove soy, I’d remove added fat, I’d be very strict. That doesn’t sound like the case here
Ok …yes have to keep in perspective they they’re dealing with very serious metabolic cases …I don’t think that’s what I’m dealing with here so hopefully he can stay on it ! I stopped the Tribute K Finish but I do still have him on the Equine Total Gold Oil (it’s a soy & fish oil blend) …when it finishes I’d like to put him on the KER EO3 oil
Here’s some pictures of what his feet look like currently (the outer walls are what broke up and chipped off …he’s just at 5wks and was only rounded up on Monday …farrier will be back early next week to put shoes on …
Speaking from experience you’ll never get out from that flairing unless you resection a bit and maybe use hoof boots if he’s sensitive. And youve got a prolapsed frog displacing the heels forward. To fix that you need to clean out the very overgrown bars that are spreading across the sole.
Now bars are tricky. Overgrown bars can bruise the sole, but they can also be an attempt by the foot to protect a thin sole.
This foot does look very flat which may be a combination of pathology or may be partly because it’s filled in with so much overgrown bar and retained sole
I think you need a trimmer with the skills to be a bit more directional with this trim.
These are not well set up feet, and popping shoes on them doesn’t solve the structural issues you’ve got brewing here.
Edited to add, you might want to take a close look at the slit in the heel of the frog and make sure there isn’t any thrush brewing up in there, which can make a horse foot sore too.
To answer the original question I preferred KIS of those for the $ and nutrition profile, though I ultimately prefer HorseTechs AZ Copper Complete with a touch more zinc/ copper/ magnesium for my horses/ use.
I agree with Scribbler regarding the trim. He’s been seen by this farrier since Feb? Do you have hoof photos from then? I don’t see much that would jump out to me as addressing the flare, underrun heels, collapsed digital cushion/ prolapsed frog, and thin soles BUT he is 5 weeks in (still, I’d argue there is room for improvement). I highly recommend learning more about hooves and trimming (building on whatever knowledge base you already have whether that is a little or a lot). I like the group Hoof Talk for the Barefoot Horse (or did, I don’t Facebook much these days). There are a lot of examples of before / after which could give you an idea of what amount of improvement you could expect over a period of time (within reason as each horse is an individual).
My trimmer recommended KIS Trace a couple of years ago and I’ve had my guy on it ever since. He had (has?) thin soles too and was super tender on gravel. He’s much better now and his feet look great. I feed it with alfalfa/timothy pellets (soaked), hay/pasture, Omega Horseshine, and a little extra magnesium (MagRestore). He gobbles it right up (like…unhinges his jaw and tries to inhale his entire dinner in one bite…hence the soaking need).
That is great and encouraging to hear …I’ve been a bit stressed now that he’s become tender on gravel and stones …and especially after having posted pics of his feet which came with a lot scrutiny…I’m currently using my samples of California Trace Plus which luckily he’s eating no problem! I’m very interested in the KIS !
I have a tb who can struggle to grow hoof and last summer had a ton of chipping and cracking with shoes. I put him on California trace, it took a few months but then my farrier was actually able to trim because his hood started growing more. We’re in the beginning of summer and so far so good we’re continuing to see improved hoof over last year.
I had a crash course on hooves when I transitioned my guy to barefoot and was lucky enough to have a non-professional trimmer in my barn. Endurance rider that took some courses through a local ag school branch. He taught me ALL about hooves and eventually how to trim myself, and we trimmed him through his laminitis as well. I’m no pro, but I trim every 2-3 weeks (it’s a much easier activity at that timeframe only using a rasp) and still have him come out and make sure we’re doing alright a few times a year now that we’re at a different barn. I see just as many hooves on other horses that I question the job vs make me think I would hire that farrier.
That book I recommended upthread is totally worth the $20, the more you can learn about hooves the better! If nothing else, it’ll give you some insight on how your trimmer is actually doing; I agree with the others comments and would also be curious to see photos from when you got him to now as well.
@FjordBCRF I will get that book …I’m all about having as much knowledge as possible! I do not have any before pictures I don’t think unfortunately.
Just to be completely honest: barefoot he’ll still give a little if he’s on particularly rough gravel or (in our case) going on newly cleared trails in the woods with lots of roots and stumps and sticks and large hunks of wood. He could manage, but he’d bruise himself sometimes (he has white front feet…not sure if that also causes him issues). Anyway, I got him some hoof boots and with them on he goes crashing through those trails like a bulldozer, LOL.
I like what the KIS Trace does for him overall, not just his feet. It makes me happy knowing he’s getting everything he needs to be healthy. But that’s true for any of the forage balancers. I’ve been tempted to try some of the others just to see, but I’m currently in an “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” mindset.
I have 6 horses (2 Morgans, 1 Arab, 1 RMH, 1 TWH and 1 Fjord) of greatly varying ages and amounts of work but all are very easy keepers. I have had an amazing amount of success with feeding Vermont ProBlend to all of them. I add it to a base of soaked timothy/alfalfa pellets with flax and salt (and then supplements per individual horse’s needs) and have free choice grass hay (and a tiny bit of pasture). All of them look amazing and have great feet.
Ok got partial bloodwork…Insulin is 30.78 uIU/ml(10-40) and glucose 74 (71-122 units mg/dL) thyroid is 1.31 ug/dl (1-3) baseline acth 14.8 pg/mL(10-40)
This is from Cornell’s lab….I took a new sample of blood this morning before his meal since these results were based off of being taken 30 minutes to one hour shortly after he had eaten his meal that contained 1 cup Purina Outlast (it has wheat middlings and molasses) and 1 cup Hygain Zero …new sample was after being out all night muzzled and only eating his low sugar hay…he did get 1 outlast treat …but vet says it shouldn’t affect results…Leptin still pending
Also farrier was back out yesterday…trimmed his feet and put front shoes on…he was much more comfortable immediately on the hard ground /gravel/rocky paths that lead to and from his field
UPDATED BLOODWORK …new Insulin came back at 15 ! …he was out overnight muzzled on grass , and had some low sugar hay prior to this bloodwork and prior to his “meal” this time which does contains 1 cup Purina Outlast and 1 cup Hygain Zero(previous insulin was 30 which was taken about 1/2 hr to 1hr after his meal) only other changes made to his meal/diet was the addition of Insulin Wise …so his diet is 1 cup Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes, 1 Cup Hygain Zero, 1 cup Purina Outlast along with California Trace Plus, 1/4 cup TC Naturals Golden Ground flax , MVP Mag 5000, Vitamin E capsules, Insulin Wise, and 2 pumps of Equine Total Gold Anhidrosis Formula Oil(fish/soy )
Lyme was also negative. Winston feels like a different horse with his new front shoes !
