Very basic question about defining grand prix

[Scribbler]

I was wondering what sets apart a Grand Prix jumping class from a regular class besides the presence of nice prize money and higher entry fees.

In dressage Grand Prix is the highest level of difficulty, but there is no prize money, so the “Prix” part doesn’t mean anything :).

I Googled Grand Prix jumpers and see that there is a maximum height and the courses are meant to be more technical.

But is there a minimum height? Asking because looking up prize books for local shows I see there is a Grand Prix class at one meter/ 3 foot 3 which is lower than some of the open classes. I saw fb video of a teen acquaintance riding it, and the course just looked like a regular jumper round.

Anyhow asking because I think I had Grand Prix conflated with the big pro circuit, nations cup, etc, and the dressage use of the term made me also think it would be the top of the field. But am I right to think in jumpers it is more flexible a term than that?

BTW how low could you go in a Grand Prix class? I’m thinking one metre but could you have a 2 foot 6 Grand Prix if someone was willing to sponsor prize money? You can have cross pole championships after all :).

[541hunter]

There’s no official rule that says what you can call a class—so a show manager can call any class a grand prix if they want to. However, there are some regulations for certain types of grands prix. From the USEF rule book:

Standards: Any class offering $25,000 or more in prize money must be offered at one of the following standards delineated below: Regional, American, National, or High Performance. Heights alone do not apply to these classes and the standard must be clearly stated in the prize list. Competitions must apply to the Jumper Committee for permission to offer $25,000 or more in prize money in any class if it does not meet one of the following:

a. Open Regional Standard: 1.35m - 1.40m with spreads to 1.55m, excluding Triple Bar and Water Jump. At least 6 Verticals and 4 Oxers must be set at 1.40m. The maximum spread for the Triple Bar is 1.85m, and the maximum spread for the Water Jump is 3.60m.

b. Junior, Amateur Owner, or Young Rider Regional Standard: 1.25m - 1.30m with spreads to 1.45m, excluding Triple Bar and Water Jump. At least 4 Verticals and 4 Oxers must be set at 1.30m. The maximum spread for the Triple Bar is 1.65m, and the maximum spread for the Water Jump is 3.60m.

c. American Standard: 1.40m - 1.45m with spreads to 1.60m, excluding Triple Bar and Water Jump. At least 4 Verticals and 2 Oxers must be set at 1.45m. The maximum spread for the Triple Bar is 1.80m, and the maximum spread for the Water Jump is 3.80m. [LIST=1]

Open National Standard: 1.40m - 1.50m with spreads to 1.70m, excluding Triple Bar and Water Jump. At least 4 Verticals and 2 Oxers must be set at 1.50m*. The maximum spread for the Triple Bar is 2.00m, and the max- imum spread for the Water Jump is 4.00m. *If conditions warrant (deterioration of footing, inclement weather, insuf cient lighting, fewer than 10 entries at the time declarations are due), the Course Designer after consulta- tion with Management and Judges, may use a 5cm variance up or down for these 6 required efforts.

Junior, Amateur Owner, or Young Rider National Standard: 1.35m - 1.40m with spreads to 1.60m, excluding Triple Bar and Water Jump. At least 4 Verticals and 3 Oxers set at 1.40m. The maximum spread for the Triple Bar is 1.80m, and the maximum spread for the Water Jump is 3.90m

Open High Performance Standard: 1.45m - 1.60m with spreads to 1.80m, excluding Triple Bar and Water Jump. At least 2 Verticals must be set at 1.60m, and at least 4 Oxers must be set at 1.50m+*, excluding Triple Bar and Water Jump. The maximum spread for the Triple Bar is 2.20m, and the maximum spread for the Water Jump is 4.50m. *If conditions warrant (deterioration of footing, inclement weather, insuf cient lighting, fewer than 10 entries at the time declarations are due), the Course Designer after consultation with Management and Judges, may use a 5cm variance up or down for these 6 required efforts. BOD 1/14/17 Effective 4/1/17

Junior, Amateur Owner, or Young Rider High Performance Standard: 1.40m - 1.50m with spreads to 1.70m, ex- cluding Triple Bar and Water Jump. At least 4 Verticals and 2 Oxers must be set at 1.50m. The maximum spread for the Triple Bar is 2.00m, and the maximum spread for the Water Jump is 4.20m. [/LIST] 5. Conforming to Level of Difficulty. (Does not apply to the Standards listed above in JP122.4 except as noted above by *). 60% of the fences in the rst round of a class must be set at the required height indicated, and the remaining 40% within a two-inch (5 cm) variance; water jump, rst fence on course, and rst fence of a triple combination excluded and are not part of the 60%. (Exception: Gambler's Choice/Top Score, Derbys, and classes 1.50 m and above).

6. Changing the Level of Dif culty from that published in prize list. The height at which a given competition is held may be altered from that listed in the prize list with the joint approval of the Course Designer, Judges and competition management; only in the case of inclement weather, or unsafe conditions. Changes in the height for any other rea- son may be done ONLY with the prior written consent of the majority of competitors in the class. See GR832.6 for class postponement due to weather conditions. All changes MUST be speci cally noted in the Steward’s report for the competition. For Standards, see JP150.

7. Certifying the Standard. Classes of $25,000 or more must be certified by the following: A course plan showing the 926 © USEF 2017 JP - JUMPER DIVISION actual heights and spreads of all the fences, signed by the Course Designer and the Senior Judge, must be given to the Senior Steward no later than the conclusion of the competition on the same day the class is held to include with his report to the Federation. If the class is held at a different standard than that listed in the prize list, the Steward must certify in his report that the requisite rules and procedures of JP122.6 were correctly followed. BOD 1/16/16 Effective 12/1/16 BOD 11/7/16 Effective 12/1/16

[Scribbler]

Ah, so if the class paid out less than $25,000 you could run it at any level you thought would please your market and your sponsor? The ones I was looking at were sponsored by various small business, which is great to see of course.

So if Joe’s Construction was willing to put up let’s say $5000 for a 2 foot 9 Grand Prix for his grandkids to ride in, that would be fine. Hypothetical situation didn’t see anything that low!

And Susie could go in on her pony and tell her friends at school she jumps Grand Prix.

Nothing wrong with that just need to readjust my understanding of the term which was shaped by the dressage progression and watching Spruce Meadows on TV!

[541hunter]

@Scribbler

Ah, so if the class paid out less than $25,000 you could run it at any level you thought would please your market and your sponsor? The ones I was looking at were sponsored by various small business, which is great to see of course.

So if Joe’s Construction was willing to put up let’s say $5000 for a 2 foot 9 Grand Prix for his grandkids to ride in, that would be fine. Hypothetical situation didn’t see anything that low!

And Susie could go in on her pony and tell her friends at school she jumps Grand Prix.

Nothing wrong with that just need to readjust my understanding of the term which was shaped by the dressage progression and watching Spruce Meadows on TV!

Even if the prize money is over $25k, you can do whatever you want, it just won’t be recognized as a GP by USEF standards. So if I wanted to front prize money for the 541hunter $100k .75m Grand Prix, and the show manager was cool with it, that would be fine because USEF doesn’t oversee that. But if I wanted to sponsor a Regional Standard Grand Prix and have it recognized by USEF, it would have to be 1.35m–1.40m and follow the rest of the specs above. Basically the words “Grand Prix” are meaningless unless it’s a USEF recognized class, at which point you can assume it conforms to the specs in one of the categories in the USEF jumper rule book.

[ladyj79]

In FEI csis the * level determines prize/height limits with 1* being the lowest and 5* being the highest. That should give you a place to easily find the specifics, because I’m very busy dying and can’t manage to link the specifics for each level.

[Scribbler]

Im going to choose to read that as dyeing

It’s OK I don’t need exact rules, just getting it confirmed it’s a very loose term was all I really needed!