Very costly mistakes of Isabelle and Anky

If you go to the nbcolympics online videos : The individual GP special (dressage)
http://www.nbcolympics.com/equestrian/video/index.html

  • Isabell’s mishap is around 4:42:06
  • Anky’s mishap is around 4:08:13

I really feel for both riders. Nevertheless I think a brilliant performance of both. I can’t copy them for sure, even if you were to put me on a Satchmo or a Salinero, I still wouldn’t be able to get anywhere near the performance they showed…
I hope both riders can put the hiccup behind them, move on and focus on the next & final step.

Directions to individual marks are given above.

[QUOTE=Lieslot;3449103]
If you go to the nbcolympics online videos : The individual GP special (dressage)
http://www.nbcolympics.com/equestrian/video/index.html

  • Isabell’s mishap is around 4:42:06
  • Anky’s mishap is around 4:08:13

I really feel for both riders. Nevertheless I think a brilliant performance of both. I can’t copy them for sure, even if you were to put me on a Satchmo or a Salinero, I still wouldn’t be able to get anywhere near the performance they showed…
I hope both riders can put the hiccup behind them, move on and focus on the next & final step.[/QUOTE]

Is this the ‘Top Individual Grand Prix Rides’ vid?

Actually, Isabell got a couple of 0.0 on movement 17, the “proceed in passage” part after the piaffe. Interestingly, the US judge gave her a 6!

No, those time markers are for the video of all the rides, not just the top ones. (In other words, the video is 4 hours long) Go to the one marked “WATCH: Individual Grand Prix Special”

Sigh. Some of us think that, given that ‘dressage’ means ‘training,’ the obedience and precision of the horse, in communication with rider, should count for more than ‘brilliance’ or ‘movement’ or who-you-are.

You have ‘one bad moment’ in other judged disciplines, hunters, reining, western pleasure, and more- you are done. So it should be in my opinion at the highest levels of ‘any’ equine discpline, most particularly the one that is all about ‘training.’

But then, I also think that a figure skater that falls down while attempting a quad shouldn’t score higher than a figure skater that lands a triple correctly.

[QUOTE=yaya;3449180]
Actually, Isabell got a couple of 0.0 on movement 17, the “proceed in passage” part after the piaffe. Interestingly, the US judge gave her a 6![/QUOTE]

Sorry you are correct

15 - 1.0 1.0 2.0 1.0 2.0 Piaffe (The cadence and regularity)

16 3.0 0.0 2.0 6.0 0.0 Transition Collected walk to piaffe (Submission and willingness)

17 - 7.0 7.0 7.0 7.0 7.0 Passage (The cadence and regularity)

[QUOTE=Beverley;3449233]
Sigh. Some of us think that, given that ‘dressage’ means ‘training,’ the obedience and precision of the horse, in communication with rider, should count for more than ‘brilliance’ or ‘movement’ or who-you-are.

You have ‘one bad moment’ in other judged disciplines, hunters, reining, western pleasure, and more- you are done. So it should be in my opinion at the highest levels of ‘any’ equine discpline, most particularly the one that is all about ‘training.’

But then, I also think that a figure skater that falls down while attempting a quad shouldn’t score higher than a figure skater that lands a triple correctly.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately that approach would reward “averageness” over brilliance and that is clearly not what is required! Why would a rider ride closer to the edge unless it was rewarded.

What I wanted to point out

I just wanted to point out that the topriders (read more experienced riders) created a extra dimension in riding. When one thing goes terribly wrong, they have the skills to grab the pieces together and manage to repair these mistakes within a tenth of a second. I see so many riders who give up after a lesser movement and continue suffering in then next five movements.

This is called experience and experience is something you can’t learn, experience need’s milleage.

Theo

IT also allows horses without innate talent in one area to excel. And I think thats why the scoring is that way. It was set up originally to allow horses to win even if they did not have a superior piaffe and passage, by allowing them to accumulate points for transitions and in other movements.

<<Nobody got a 0. 0 means movement wasn’t attempted and she did attempt it.>>

Isabell did get a 0 - two of them. Not for the piaffe, but for the piaffe-to-passage transition which was not really preformed because she was not in piaffe prior to passaging.

Mvmt 16 (the transition): 3-0-2-6-0 with the odd 6 from Gary Rockwell (not sure what his rationale was)

[QUOTE=Applecore;3450343]
<<Nobody got a 0. 0 means movement wasn’t attempted and she did attempt it.>>

Isabell did get a 0 - two of them. Not for the piaffe, but for the piaffe-to-passage transition which was not really preformed because she was not in piaffe prior to passaging.

Mvmt 16 (the transition): 3-0-2-6-0 with the odd 6 from Gary Rockwell (not sure what his rationale was)[/QUOTE]

I feel Isabel did have the best ride, but some of the scores to me are ridiculous. Honestly how did Rockwell give her a 6 for that transition. And I think the 6s across the board for submission were too high. Satchmo was very disobedient. He did not just make a little mistake. Sure it only affected the piaffe and the transition to passage score but the submission should have been lower than a 6. The German judge gave most everyone a 6 for submission except for the Russian and Briar who got 7 and Lancet for some reason I can’t figure out who got a 5. I just don’t see how he could find Satchmo more submissive than Lancet.

Salinero is not as overall is not as even and fluid as he has been in the past. I think the breaks in the half pass and uneven extensions etc, signal a little stiffness in there. I too think Brentina was not right in the selection trials. I am not saying whistle these horses out, I am just saying they are not what I consider to be 100% sound. Anky looked better in this test and I always think she does a good job. In the first test Salinero was making her work very hard, it did look like the hand brake was on.

Thanks, Lieslot :yes:

Well, yes, it would. Which begs the question. Is dressage supposed to be about the correct training of a horse, or about who can get the most moments of ‘brilliance’ between disobediences? I prefer the former, obviously the latter is the way things are in competitive dressage, which bears little resemblance to classical dressage.

OMG, Don’t know how you tracked this down, but a big THANKS for posting.

I think they can get away with a poor movement because there are so many scores. If a rail in the hunters is as big of an error as missed tempi change- well that rail was at most 1/10 of your score (10 jumps). Anky and Isabel had one miss out of 38. 1/40th of the score (less than that with scores that get doubled and the scores at the end for gaits etc). It’s just the way it works.

Honestly- to me, their mistakes were not huge, and amazingly the piaffe explosion did not carry any ongoing tension. Horse exploded, recovered - went on. Sure - knock some off for submission. But that is still quite an obedient horse. It’s not like it ruined the test. Their horses look free and move freely. Most of the others make it look like work, including the American riders- now- their work was wonderful- but still lacked the flow and freedom of the the two top rides. It looked good- but it looked like work. The top two floated through the test.

About movement 16 and the American judge giving a 6, that movement says transition from collected walk to piaffe, not from piaffe to passage. It’s for transition into piaffe, not out of piaffe. I agree there was no transition out of piaffe, unless piaffe to back/rear/spook is a movement. :smiley:

But that movement was transition into piaffe. Clearly there is a difference of opinion in the judges on whether Satchmo entered piaffe fine (movement 16) and then spooked, resisted once in piaffe, or whether he never actually established piaffe before spooking/resisting.

I’m not casting a vote either way, but I could see both interpretations watching it, so I don’t think the American judge’s score of 6 is from left field. From the scores, he apparently thought the horse was already in piaffe before resisting and entered piaffe reasonably well (6). Two judges thought he did not establish piaffe well at all but did establish it sorta (2 and 3). Two judges thought he never established the transition into piaffe before the freakout (0).

Edited to add: Sorry, found another listing of the movements. I was relying on the info above post 184 that said transition from collected walk to piaffe was 16. It is transitions both into and out of, apparently. Does leave a question mark on the 6.

I thought both Isabelle and Anky had real brilliant moments… I also thought they had moments of real ‘non brilliance’. Doubt anyone would disagree on that point. I thought Isabelle’s ride, overall was better…one major mistake… but the rest was pretty darned good. I thought Anky and Salinero looked tense pretty much throughout…with only moments of perceived relaxation… I say perceived cause I sincerely doubt either had even a moment of REAL relaxation… And Anky/Salinero ‘blew’ three movements…pretty obviously… even a layperson would have seen it… Obviously why Isabelle came out a little on top. I agree with that… overall, a better ride.

However… all that said… I thought Steffan’s and Courtney’s rides were both, overall…better. No major mistakes…and nothing observable by a layperson. Courtney’s ride was downright harmonious I thought. I truly thought there was nothing that horse would not do for her. I’m not saying that cause I’m in the US… just an honest observation. Perhaps not as brilliant…but darned NICE… with NO major mistakes. Not really even saying that Anky or Isabelle made any mistakes… the horse is what it is… on any given day…and nothing you can really do about it except what they did – go on the best you can… and both did… but it happened…

I am no Grand Prix expert as well but I can say that they both fabulous rides based on this:

I loved the ride most because they were both able to take a bad situation and recover instantly from it and keep riding to movements that scored them 7-8-and 9’s. I would expect nothing less from the two greatest dressage riders in the world. If it were me I would have been so freaked out my horse did something like that I would have had a complete melt down, and half-assed the rest of my test. So bravo to both for amazing recoveries.

This also shows that they are both human and that the horses are, well depending on what you want to call them, humans/horses too and that they are allowed to get frazzled and make mistakes (more the horses) because thats what they are prey animals! I applaud every one of those horses for going in that bright arena at night, with the humidity, and the crowds, and that scary as hell jumbo screen and still be able to preform at the level they did.

Overall I still say that they did have fantastic rides regardless of the mishaps that happened to both of them. I will be cheering for Anky to take the gold in the freestlye finals tomorrow! GO ANKY!

I have to agree that I thought Courtney and Steffen’s rides were, overall, better. Anky’s looked pretty tense and forced. Isabelle’s looked a little tentative, a little better than Anky’s, but still tense and tentative.

The mistakes? Isabelle’s was BIG time bad! If it had been anyone else, I think they would’ve been scored even more harshly. Anky’s was a generic whoops. Big one? Sure. But not nearly as big an :eek: moment. I’d venture to guess we’ve all done something similar.

I’ve never been one who likes the politics of sport. It exists everywhere, but I don’t agree with it. Just because a name is big doesn’t mean they deserve the better scoring. I’m pretty surprised at the scores seen here. My own personal opinion, and not one I need go further with.

It will be interesting to see how it all ends up.