I would do one jump at a time and then make him halt a few strides after ! I’m not sure I new bit is the answer, but it may help.
[QUOTE=Hunterkid;8439758]
I would do one jump at a time and then make him halt a few strides after ! I’m not sure I new bit is the answer, but it may help.[/QUOTE]
This is a really good suggestion as well. I actually rarely string jumps together at home, especially on young horses. Yes gymnastics and lines, but no to courses or going around a turn to jump again more than once a month or so. Jump and come back to me is what I want them to think is “normal.”
A kineton noseband might also do the trick without bitting up.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8439706]
I hear you, bfne, and I generally prefer a Mullen. If OP’s horse is too strong in a Mullen she might try a rubber jointed. It could really help. Some horses, esp drafty horses, will really lug on anything solid so that is definitely an option if she is currently using a Mullen Pelham. I always keep one around even though it isn’t my go to.
Another thing to try–something with nose pressure like a Myler combination bit or a hackabit. Some horses go really well in those and many have pretty forgiving mouthpieces for novice hands.[/QUOTE]
That is where you have to try them because how a horse reacts to them really depends. I’ve certainly had horses who were too low who went better in a Pelham than gag (tried both).
The mouthpiece is a single joint because that is what he’s always been ridden in. I haven’t had him out in a while and yesterday was a super nice day here so I decided to take him out and he was crazy strong. Possibly because he had been stuck doing arena work for the past 5 weeks, but I had converters on my pelham and he was a pain in the butt to stop.
My trainer was thinking elevator or a long shanked pelham, but I’m not sure which way to go.
I would try a longer shanked Pelham and try a metal Mullen mouth with a slight port.
I find the broken Pelhams not as effective. The snaffle takes away the effectiveness of the curb. The myler Pelham or combination bit may really help. They are thinner and shanks a bit longer. Finding a longer shanked Pelham is not always easy. I also know several people who swear by those combination bits. I’ve personally never needed one.
He also needs a 6" which has always been the main problem when looking for a bit.
[QUOTE=xRecklessRenditionx;8439833]
He also needs a 6" which has always been the main problem when looking for a bit.[/QUOTE]
If you buy bits from the UK you can often get a better selection in the larger sizes. My Trakehner took a 6" bit and that was a challenge.
Also try the Kineton with a bit you already have.
What is a Kineton?
[QUOTE=xRecklessRenditionx;8439880]
What is a Kineton?[/QUOTE]
This: http://www.doversaddlery.com/kineton-noseband/p/X1-0842/ When you add a bit, pressure on the bit causes pressure on the noseband. You could try some bits over at Mary’s Tack as they have a bit rental system.
I’ll have to look into that has anyone had any success with the Kineton?
[QUOTE=xRecklessRenditionx;8439948]
I’ll have to look into that has anyone had any success with the Kineton?[/QUOTE]
I know several people who have found it to be very helpful with horses that pull.
I have a Kineton and used it on a little Standardbred I hunted for years. It worked for her because she was manageable strengthwise - not sure on a draft-x.
It works by acting on the nose when the bit is put into action. It also has a pinching effect on the lips and sides of the cheeks. Rough or sharp edges can cause discomfort if the teeth are not up to date.
It does not help a horse that simply curls under and can gallop along with its chin on its chest.
I found the Kineton very good for this particular horse. After she had the first tug or two on the first run, she slipped along nicely.
My next horse was a very large TB with steeplechase lines - I had to use a gag on him - one major reef on him at the beginning of the hunt and he went along like a lamb. I’m not very strong, so would not be able to do any real disservice to the horse.
Western riders intrigue me - their horses go so lightly and with such quick responses.
The bits they use might be quite severe, twisted wire with a roller - but if the release is instant, it might work on a tough horse…or it could tear up the mouth, right?
He will pull occasionally, but more of what he seems to do is curl and run. I am hesitant because I don’t have a huge budget and I don’t want to waste money if the new things don’t work. This sport is to expensive to do that, at least in my case.
Curlling and running is tough. You really only get them by turning …and with some drafties that can be tough…as you actually have to kick to get them turning to slow down…and that isn’t easy to do if you are less experienced.
I really wouldn’t go with the gag route with him based on your description. Trick is really going to be with you getting quick to not let him build up a head of steam…as once that train gets going, doesn’t really matter what bit you have.
Have you tried using his decision against him? As in you say “whoa”’ he says “no” and you run him until he says “can I stop now pleeeeeeze!”?
Once they start curling and running you’ve got to find another way to get your point across, stronger bits are rarely successful.
It’s a tough one, for sure.
If your horse curls behind the bit, IME you need to revert to a bit where he will take contact and then reschool from there.
You may find that the Kineton works, you might try riding with a running martingale gives you a bit more control, but I think it’s going to involve some rides where you never let him get rolling, for example trotting an entire course or circling when he gets too strong at the canter. You will likely have to make a few “sacrifice” rides where you goal is to train your horse, not try to place. Once a horse knows what the start box means, some want to take over and just do their job; he’s on auto pilot and no longer listening to you.
My TB hunt horse can get that way. I whip off of him sometimes and it takes a real discussion at the beginning of a hunt if we have to ride with the field – or, God forbid – lead the hilltoppers. For the first half hour or so he is very clear that I am doing it “wrong” and that he knows better – in other words, that we should be galloping like stink after those hounds.
eBay is your friend when it comes to trying out tack for less than retail. I almost always buy bits used. Here’s a Kineton that’s on right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/English-Kineton-anti-pull-noseband-headstall-/161917265923?hash=item25b3056803:g:GiwAAOSw8-tWX6IE (not mine).
You can also rent bits to try from several tack stores. Sometimes it takes a few tries to find a bit that your horse likes. A lot depends on how your horse responds to pressure – some bits put more pressure on the bars vs. the tongue, etc.
I still think you should try the PeeWee bit – works like a charm on my draft X without backing her off. I frequently see them on eBay for $20.
http://marystack.com/marys-bit-rental-program/
http://www.horse-rider-etc.com/tack/bits/mylerbits.html
http://www.bitofbritain.com/Herm-Sprenger-Bit-Rental-Program-s/357.htm
If you wanted to try the Kineton, you could borrow mine, but it isn’t a rig up that is very potent and might be too small. It is one of those things that either will or will not help.
I might be inclined to put him in a full cheek or D ring bit, a running martingale all add a bit of control and do the circle thingy to slow him down. Whether you can rate him - don’t know - but is he the sort of seasoned horse who will rate himself as he approaches a jump?
Perhaps this big strong horse does not have that much speed and you just think he’s speedy. If you let up on him between jumps, maybe he will listen in the last few strides? He sounds like he is stronger than you right now.
Anyway, if you want to borrow the noseband, contact me.
He is definitely stronger than me. A waterford full cheek worked for the baby 2 foot jumps, but as you get to BN and above is when he gets strong. I was taught the running martingale was only to keep the horse from raising its head to much. How exactly does it give more control?
[QUOTE=xRecklessRenditionx;8441395]
He is definitely stronger than me. A waterford full cheek worked for the baby 2 foot jumps, but as you get to BN and above is when he gets strong. I was taught the running martingale was only to keep the horse from raising its head to much. How exactly does it give more control?[/QUOTE]
When you use a running martingale, your reins run through the rings. In addition to preventing your horse from throwing its head too high, the running martingale adds leverage to the bit. When the rider pulls on the reins the martingale rings pull down. This adds pressure to the bars of the mouth. One of the disadvantages to the running martingale is that there is always some small amount of pressure on the reins due to the weight of the rings unless the rider is riding on the buckle. That’s one reason why many people don’t use a running on a leverage bit like a gag/elevator (because then you are telling the horse to raise and lower his head!) and why you would always attach the rings to the snaffle rein on a pelham.
Personally, for foxhunting, I always try a running martingale before I go to a stronger bit. I find it gives me more control but doesn’t back the horse off.
I do think that you are dealing more with a training issue than a bit problem. Finding the right bit will help, but you need to find a way to get your horse to listen to you. It sounds like he ignores you either by pulling through a mild bit or curling behind a stronger one. I had a horse that would float behind the bit and it’s a very hard problem to solve. I had to first find a bit that he would accept – he did better in a Happy Mouth or in a ported snaffle. Next, I had to work with him to become submissive. However, it was always better to have him on the bit, connected, than to have him behind it, so pulling was preferable.
