Vet gave advice I'm not sure about - folks w/ metabolic equines, what would you do?

[Abbie.S]

One of my two mini jacks I strongly suspect had some kind of metabolic/laminitic/founder episode prior to my owning him. He’s about 3, I’ve had him for about a year. When I got him, his feet were in pretty terrible shape (but with good trimming have turned out very nicely and look good now) and he has a hard, cresty neck. We had no issues last winter and he went through the grazing season fine with no problems whatsoever. I have not been concerned about him until now. With this arctic front that’s come through, we haven’t gotten above 0F in close to four days. He’s foot sore and very and very noticeably body sore probably due to his feet. He does not want to be touched anywhere on his body, whereas he is normally very social, cuddly and loves being petted and groomed. I am 99% sure he is having a cold-induced bout of foot soreness related to his questionable metabolic issues.

I called the vet, obviously without seeing him they can’t say anything for sure, but her recommendation was Bute, find him some boots or some other covering to protect his feet and to ice his feet/legs…

The last bit is what caught me. Icing? If this is cold-induced, that LAST thing I want to do is ice his feet. He’s never had a single problem with cold weather before now that I know of, but this is only my second winter with him and we did not have this type of nasty cold stretch last winter. I am very, very hesitant to ice him - he’s already so uncomfortable and Iogistically speaking, if he’s standing around in the snow (which he is, for good chunks of the day), it amounts to the same thing. I feel like I should be WARMING his feet and legs, getting them wrapped up and cushioning his feet to keep him a bit off the frozen ground, bedding down their shed more than normal, etc.

I am not normally one to question vet advice but my gut instinct is so strong on this one. To the vet’s credit, she has not seen the donkey and so is just advising the best she can, but I feel like when one says “cold-induced foot pain”, the logic answer is not “add more cold”. This is an associate of the practice I use and not a vet I have ever met in person, so I don’t know her well at all. My only experience with metabolic issues personally was my old TB gelding who was Cushing-oid but not the weird fat patterns, cresty neck, laminitis kind, he was the loses condition/weight, long haircoat that doesn’t shed, pees all the time/increased water intake kind. This jack would be the former if I had to categorize him.

What would you do in this situation? My regular vet is out, this associate is the only one working today and is on call this weekend.

[ariel.damon]

I would do the Bute and boots, sounds like the donkey is effectively icing his legs by standing in snow already, so I’d skip the icing part. (It is way too cold outside right now to add more cold to it…)

[Marla_100]

Sounds like you’re pretty observant and I’d tend to agree with you about cold induced pain/discomfort. After laminitis/founder the circulation in the feet and legs can be deficient and it may be lifelong.
I also have one w/ previous founder and as soon as it gets into 40’s he starts feeling it, walking slowly, footsore, etc.
I use boots on feet sometimes but regularly use BOT Quick Wraps on all 4 legs, keep them warm all over w/ blankets
and keep them sheltered from cold and windy conditions. They do suffer in cold conditions if not protected.

[Libby2563]

Yeah, I don’t blame you for questioning that advice, especially from a vet you don’t know at all. It doesn’t really sound like he needs more cold on his feet.

I don’t have any experience with this myself but someone linked to this page on cold-induced laminitis on another thread today: https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/…ced-laminitis/. It says Bute won’t help much but that a blanket, leg wraps, and lined boots can.

I hope the poor little guy feels better soon!

[Scribbler]

If it is laminitis then the inside of the hoof is heated up and inflamed. You certainly don’t want to add heat to this!

It is an interesting conundrum. I suppose the answer lies in how the cold triggers a bout of laminitis? Does the cold work on his body and alter his metabolism, causing laminitis? Or does the cold work on his feet directly?

Or is it perhaps standing on deep uneven and possibly lumpy ground changing his foot angles and triggering laminitis?

Or is he eating too much hay? Have you had your hay tested and is it low nsc?

I think the winter environment could provide different triggers so that would be my first question.

Ok now I see other posters with IRL experience say cold weather per se is a trigger so Bute and a blanket and boots and a fluffy stall!

[stb]

I just read something this morning about cold induced laminitis. I can’t remember where I read it but it stated that metabolic and previously foundered horses were, of course, more at risk. If it were me I would blanket, and boot the little guy. Might want to consider leg wraps as well. I certainly wouldn’t ice under these circumstances.

[LuvRedHeads]

@stb

I just read something this morning about cold induced laminitis. I can’t remember where I read it but it stated that metabolic and previously foundered horses were, of course, more at risk. If it were me I would blanket, and boot the little guy. Might want to consider leg wraps as well. I certainly wouldn’t ice under these circumstances.

Was it this article? https://horsenetwork.com/2017/12/cold-weather-laminitis/

[Abbie.S]

@Scribbler, this was an excellent article I found that describes the theory - I don’t think anyone knows for sure exactly how it works, but in the research I’ve had time to do it seems to be a common enough phenomenon that I don’t question it’s likely a cause for some horses.

https://forageplus.co.uk/winter-laminitis/

[Libby2563]

Ha, all three of the articles linked so far are by the same author.

[stb]

@LuvRedHeads

Was it this article? https://horsenetwork.com/2017/12/cold-weather-laminitis/

That’s it.

[offtracked]

Do you feel comfortable using your own best judgment and waiting for your usual vet, or is it worth seeking a second opinion now?

[walkinthewalk]

@Libby2563

Ha, all three of the articles linked so far are by the same author.

Dr. Eleanor Kellon owns the website ecirhorse.org.

she lost a horse to metabolic issues years ago and has made it her life’s work to research and freely pass information along.

the article I received was https://horsenetwork.com/2017/12/col…her-laminitis/

It talks about keeping the horse blanketed, legs wrapped, and using insulated boots. It also discusses the use of certain herbs. It is a great article IMHO:)

OP, until you can find boots for your Mini, tractor Supply carries the original Magic Cushion with the blue and white label. It only takes a small amount to pack the hooves, then pat some shavings over the hooves to hold the Magic Cushion I to the collateral grooves. Some of it will stick to the sole without wrapping.

Magic Cushion also comes in extra strength - that label is gold and likely will have to be ordered on line.

if you can bring the Mini in at night, it would help him immensely. My IR horse comes in at dusk and goes to pasture around 9:30 AM.

also, try and get the vet to give you Previcox instead of Bute — it’s a lot easier on the stomach than Bute for long term use:)

Best of luck:)

[Palm_Beach]

Not sure why a possibly laminitic donkey would still be left outside. He needs to come in and be on bute until the vet can come out and make a diagnosis. If he is simply foot sore due to hard ground he can go out in boots. Either way he comes in until he gets comfortable.

[stb]

Good idea about the Magic Cushion in a pinch. I also think that either Easyboot or Cavallo would express ship boots in an emergency.

[S1969]

And you’ve had no other changes? No new hay, donkeys finding grass to graze on?

I have a very sensitive Cushings pony - lots of things trigger laminitic flares for him. Especially changes in hay or having access to grass. But sometimes there seems to be no obvious cause - he’s a metabolic nightmare.

In the end, the only thing that keeps him alive is Prascend. Have you talked about testing/medicating?

I would definitely get your guy some boots and/or bring him into a bedded stall if possible, and bute. Not sure I’d ice, but I definitely wouldn’t add heat. If you can’t bring him in at least give him some place to lie down if he wants - bedding or straw outside.

[Abbie.S]

@Palm Beach, he’s not “left outside”. He and his buddy have a 50’x50’ paddock and 10’x12’ matted and bedded shed. I don’t have a way to lock them in the shed right now, so he is still free to wander outside if he wants, but the last few days I haven’t seen many signs of them leaving the shed. All their food and water is in there as it is. We’re working on building a sliding door to be able to shut them in.

I didn’t end up icing, decided to go with my gut on this one - I am glad I’m not the only one who balked at the recommendation to ice. Both boys are wearing two layers now and I ended up creating little foot booties out of 3/4" foam insulation cut in the shape of the sore one’s hoof, cotton batting and Vetwrap…it worked pretty well. He’s on Bute and for the most part hanging out in the deeply bedded shed. He seems much more comfortable with more layers and meds.

And no, no management changes whatsoever. Same hay, same vitamin pellet, no grass this time of year. I’m a big believer in Occam’s Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the best. I looked into over-nighting boots but nobody is going to deliver until Tuesday because of the holiday.

I’m going to monitor him over the weekend and check in with the vet I normally use on Tuesday. Thanks to all who responded

[S1969]

@Abbie.S

[USER=“204357”]And no, no management changes whatsoever. Same hay, same vitamin pellet, no grass this time of year. I’m a big believer in Occam’s Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the best. I

Well Occam’s Razor with a suspected underlying metabolic condition. It could be just a one-off, but as I said, my Cushings pony just has wacky metabolic incidents from time to time. In his case it is absolutely positive that he’s off the charts Cushings without medication, but he hadn’t been treated until I got him at age 12 and his owner wanted to “rehome” him. So I suspect he got to a point where he couldn’t be managed without medication, but was “ok” for a long time.

Fingers crossed this is just a cold-related incident but just watch him for other signs of discomfort. Horses and ponies can be stoic - I suspect donkeys are probably worse.