Vet hitting horse

[Torre]

@lifeishorsesarelove

I would not and do not allow my horse to be treated this way. Neither does she, and my good as gold chestnut mare would likely have knocked his block off for it, before I could even step in.

It is hard, especially as a woman (because we are conditioned to avoid conflict to not be seen as a b!*&h), to step up and go against someone who is “above” us in knowledge or power. But you are the client, you are paying for a service, you hold the cards. AND you are the one who will have to deal with the aftermath of your horse being smacked around.

Spot on, agree with everything you said. A part of me right now is feeling very insecure about sending the message I did to a respected vet, because I don’t want to be seen as a b or burn bridges.
He’s the type that would think that- I’ve heard him call fussy mares b#@$%'s all the time in front of clients, so I can’t imagine what he says about human clients lol

And @ your chestnut mare comment- mine knew what was going on. At one point after he hit her multiple times he was trying to approach with the xray machine again. She was trying to get away, and his bucket of yellowy sterilizer was on the ground. He said “don’t you dare break my bucket” and lo and behold, she stepped RIGHT on it perfectly enough that it split down the middle and he spent some time cleaning up

Good mare.

[Write_amp_Ride]

I once had a vet out for a very minor colic and when he tried to tube the horse, the horse danced around and was being difficult. The vet said “that’s not nice, dobbin” and kicked him in the stomach. WTF? Very well known sport horse vet and very nice guy. I was surprised he reacted that sharply. I find the vets who are horse owners & riders are far kinder and understand horse behavior better.

[hut-ho78]

Get another vet. That one is going to get himself or the horse or you or all three of you hurt bad.

[ReSomething]

The fellow I left was also OLD. He’s got to be 80 by now.

The new guy was younger and came alone, didn’t disturb the old guy and got the job done easily. He came another time with a vet tech gal who was all business, got ahold of the halter and the old guy stretched up that ASB neck and started getting looky, from my perspective it was a little more work that time, and the old guy didn’t recover well from the sedation, took forever so they might have had to use more, but that may have been his age also.

We later had another member of that practice come out for the old guys impaction colic and he told me that if the horse were to move quickly to the side his arm could be broken while he was evacuating manure, so it’s possible that the prospect of a serious injury colors a vets perceptions.

[S1969]

@Torre

Yes, the vet, who I really like in terms of diagnosing and treating, backed his tech up, which is a huge bummer. I have seen this particular vet lose his temper twice before and kick a horse who was spooking, but I assumed that was an isolated incident.

Not sure why you get into the field of helping animals and then act like that.

Anyways, I sent the vet a long but respectful message with my concerns, and his response was “Thanks, I will have a talk with him”.
Doesn’t quite cover it. How about “sorry you just shelled out 800$ for injections and xrays, and had your animal traumatized at the same time”.

To a previous poster, I absolutely should have stopped it. This vet is OLD- at the end of his career and respected. I guess that made me nervous about saying something. If the tech was alone, I would have told him to get lost.

I guess I don’t understand your response. If the vet was present for the hitting, I’m not sure why the email would be “relaying all this information” - or did you email a different vet?

I wouldn’t be talking to the vet about his tech’s actions - I’d be talking to him about his lack of supervision of the tech. That is the vet’s job. And since he was there and allowed the tech to hit the horse - that’s a bigger problem.

But yes, you should have said something at the time. Like sharp “Hey, do you really think that was necessary? I think we can accomplish this differently.”

[Angela_Freda]

@ReSomething

The fellow I left was also OLD. He’s got to be 80 by now.

The new guy was younger and came alone, didn’t disturb the old guy and got the job done easily. He came another time with a vet tech gal who was all business, got ahold of the halter and the old guy stretched up that ASB neck and started getting looky, from my perspective it was a little more work that time, and the old guy didn’t recover well from the sedation, took forever so they might have had to use more, but that may have been his age also.

We later had another member of that practice come out for the old guys impaction colic and he told me that if the horse were to move quickly to the side his arm could be broken while he was evacuating manure, so it’s possible that the prospect of a serious injury colors a vets perceptions.

That’s true, and an understandable reason for vets to want handlers who know what they are doing… but it’s also a reason to have help that know when less is more, when roughing them up will merely amp them up, and when stepping back, giving them some scratches and a chance to exhale will serve to keep everyone safe.
Some owners are not the right person to hold their own horse, as they make things worse. Sometimes the best person to hold is the owner, because they know how much is enough, and too much. Good vets can quickly determine which is which.

[Ghazzu]

Lambasting a horse.you’re trying to.position for radiography is moronic.

[Ghazzu]

When I first practiced, I could safely assume that the majority of clients were able and willing to safely restrain their animals. By the time I got out of f/t practice, that was no longer true. But happy drugs get you further than physical force in most cases.
unless I perceive a horse as deliberately trying to damage me, I avoid getting physical with them.

[stb]

I would have stopped the proceedings immediately and asked the vet and his tech to leave. I don’t care who you are, you don’t get to beat on my animals. My animals are not spoiled - they have good manners and know how to behave, both dogs and horses. I don’t tolerate bad behavior out of my animals and I sure don’t tolerate it out of other people either - vets or not. I would be looking for a new vet asap.

[crosscreeksh]

@ryansgirl

Appointment would have IMMEDIATELY been stopped by me in no uncertain terms. They would’ve been immediately told to leave and then I would be all over their higher-ups.

THIS!! “GET OUT of my barn…you’re fired and your boss will be hearing from me!!”

[flyingchange]

I do agree that most of the younger vets and vet techs have very little horse handling experience. I am currently a late-in-life DVM student - and I am pretty amazed at how little true horse handling skills most of my equine-oriented peers have. Some of them have zero experience and want to be horse vets. I don’t know how that works. Last spring, one of my peers, who says she wants to be a integrative medicine equine vet - was completely impressed when I showed our work group how to worm a horse and pick up a foot. Seriously.

At the same time, in my time leading up to to vet school, I witnessed rough housing from some older folks in the profession. At a major equine referral hospital that I worked for, the head vet tech in imaging got rough with the horses on a daily basis. If they didn’t move when she wanted them to, they were promptly smacked and called an ugly name. It sucked to be around and witness with my hands tied as I was a nobody and had no voice there. Most of these horses will move this way or that just following very gentle body movement from the handler. Rough housing them serves no purpose but to get them all upset and stressed and then of course, easily triggered. And if they just need to be sedated, then sedate them - but don’t start with all the slapping and kicking their bellies and then calling them nasty names. But what did I know…

At any rate, I would have been quite shocked had I been the OP in this scenario. I am also one who, when using a pro’s services, tries to be polite and helpful. It is very hard to instantly switch gears into protective mode when someone like this tech decides to abuse his/her authority/position. Nobody wants to be labeled as a “crazy” client who coddles their horses. Nobody wants to potentially burn bridges. In any event, I would have been PISSED, if not before the vet’s “deserved it comment,” then for sure afterwards, and that would be the last time that practice came out. I would for sure let the practice know the reason for my leaving them.

[Wanderosa]

@Torre

Yes, the vet, who I really like in terms of diagnosing and treating, backed his tech up, which is a huge bummer. I have seen this particular vet lose his temper twice before and kick a horse who was spooking, but I assumed that was an isolated incident.

Not sure why you get into the field of helping animals and then act like that.

Anyways, I sent the vet a long but respectful message with my concerns, and his response was “Thanks, I will have a talk with him”.
Doesn’t quite cover it. How about “sorry you just shelled out 800$ for injections and xrays, and had your animal traumatized at the same time”.

To a previous poster, I absolutely should have stopped it. This vet is OLD- at the end of his career and respected. I guess that made me nervous about saying something. If the tech was alone, I would have told him to get lost.

What? Wait? You’ve seen the vet kick a horse twice?? Uh uh. I don’t care how good his diagnostics are. UNless this dude is the only vet in a 400 mile radius, he wouldn’t be near my horse. In fact, even if he were the only vet within a 400 mile radius? I would trailer out.

Look, I get that horses are large and can be extremely dangerous. I’ve had to teach numerous people to be more assertive with them for their own safety. But a vet kicking a horse is not normal. I also don’t believe it’s a male versus female thing. I’ve had numerous vets of both sexes attend to my horses over the years. All of them had similar or better handling skills than I do. All of them. Heck. I had a long horn cow dying of mastitis. The one non-equine large animal vet in the area back then was a man from New Zealand in his 70’s. It took 24 hours for him to get to us because he kept getting called back for calving emergencies (only cattle vet in the tri-county) The cow was in rough shape but still strong enough to be dangerous. She was down where we didn’t have a handling area that met the challenges presented by a long horn. This vet probably hadn’t slept 5 hours in the last 48. He still managed to handle her with dignity and finesse. There’s no excuse to do otherwise unless the animal has literally tried to kill you.

[candyappy]

I have never had a vet hit any of my horses. I think once a farrier did and the horse was being a real brat and I was holding him and he deserved the well placed , one time reprimand , which was not done in anger BTW.

The fact that your tech was male has no bearing on temper or abusive actions. I’ve seen plenty of female horse people beat the crap out of the horses in their care, going above and beyond what is appropriate for discipline( even when needed).

Why was the tech doing an ex-ray alone? I would always expect the vet to be in attendance.

[Redemption3]

With me it would have gone one of two ways depending on the situation. One: I would have taken my horse and loaded him up and left to pay the bill by mail or Two: I would have quietly helped him by taking the reins away and Helping him XRay and after paying the bill, would have looked for another vet. Either way it would have been the last visit.

[staceyk]

I have a warmblood who barely reacts to a sizable smack. I had a clinician once wollop him for personal space/mouthiness on the ground (in a way that made noise but was not forceful, really) – my horse startled and looked alarmed, but then he PAID ATTENTION and stopped his nudginess. The clinician got my horse’s respect and frankly he got a great ride out of my horse.

I have a thoroughbred that would have been in the next COUNTY with that treatment.

I really expect my vet to be able to control the horse as needed, taking into consideration temperament and sensitivity. A thoroughbred mare? You would get so much farther with subtle adjustments. Vet/tech inexperience or maybe just a long, harried day and temper loss – they may have been late for the next appt, or were dealing with a lot of rank animals that day.

I try to look for patterns in behavior rather tha judging on one instance – but if it was unfair as you say it was, yeah, maybe share your feelings with this vet (if you think it can be salvaged) or try a different vet.

[KiwiGirl91]

I agree with everyone else, get a new vet! Absolutely complain to the clinic manager about the tech and vet in this instance.
I was an equine vet tech up until I changed careers for work life balance. I worked with some incredible vets and every single one always said, “You are not here to train the patient”. In other words, we handle the patient confidently, competently and safely. If the patient is upset we would try calm the situation, use mild sedatives if owner approved or wait until the patient was settled down. If the patient was being uncooperative with keeping the foot we needed down for x-rays, we would get an extra set of hands to hold the opposite leg up. Unless it was an emergency and we needed the rads asap for surgery we took it slow and quietly. Even in emergencies we were quiet, but slightly quicker. The horse was going to be anesthetized anyway so it had an IVC and we gave sedatives prior to imaging.

[One_Big_Holiday]

Time for a new vet. My vet is a big husky guy from Texas and he would NEVER hit my 17.3h TB even when he’s acting like an ass hat. Never.

[cruisecontrol]

If you haven’t already i would be asking for recommendations for another practice. I have had my fair share of vets who were recommended and held high on a pedestal only to have them come out and be ugly to my horse. I had a 15h QH who was a cheap date and well behaved unless you twitched him. I have never seen a horse fight a twitch like he did and this vet insisted on a twitch for bursa injections and did not use an x-ray. I politely but firmly asked the vet to please leave and I would find someone else for my needs.

Some owners know their horses and I don’t appreciate vets who brush off well meaning owners. My current vet was incredible with my horse even when he was a toot. She took her time with him and I trusted her to work on him if I was unable to be there for the appointment. The techs can be questionable but it would infuriate me if the vet responded to your email in a nonchalant way I never ever go against my gut with my horses well being. I wish you the best with a new one and hope your mare isn’t too rattled.

[tabula_rashah]

I have had this issue with a farrier. He was told to immediately stop what he was doing and leave my property. Don’t ever forget that you are your horse’s advocate.

[chestnutmarebeware]

To me that’s unacceptable.There’s plenty of ways to manipulate a horse without beating or scaring them.

I’ve got two very opinionated chestnut mares and one is often unwilling to cooperate with my vet after she’s received a shot or two. But he’s got several non-violent methods for making her behave, and I’m fine with those. One of the most impressive is using his hand as a twitch on her upper lip. She stands like a statue until he lets go, and he manages to treat her using only the other hand. And she’s not upset afterward—in fact she seems to like him a lot, except when he has a needle in his hand. He’s a farm kid and probably learned these tricks at a young age.

My other chestnut mare decided to cow-kick her very kind farrier when she was a long yearling. She got a good whack on the belly with the file (and deserved it), and never tried that stunt again. And he actually apologized to me afterwards because he felt bad. I didn’t—she knew exactly what she was doing.

Now if the horse is trying to hurt you, all bets are off. Then I make them believe they’re about to die.