Vet hitting horse

Since you asked what I would have done, I would have kicked the kid off my property… no lie. And if the vet had a problem with it, I’d find a new one even if I had to haul out. There is NO EXCUSE for rough treatment of a horse in that manner.

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Time for a new vet. There are other vets who are just as good, or better.

Why ???

What’s the big loss burning this bridge ??? Torch it and don’t look back. Your opinion of him is far more important to you than his opinion of you. Who cares what he thinks?

My guess - If you dump this vet, you will not be the first client to do so.

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I do think it’s complicated by the fact that OP said nothing at the time, and now is complaining to the vet.

I can see that the vet might not take that completely seriously.

We all need to be proactive and ready to step in to defend our horses from professionals that start to lose the plot, including vets, vet techs, farriers, trainers, clinicians, etc., at the time those “pros” are getting violent with the horse. By step in and defend, I mean you step in, halt what’s going on, say it isn’t appropriate, and let the chips fall where they may. It might mean you lose a clinic fee or you end up paying the farm call for a vet visit that isn’t completed.

I say this knowing it is often very difficult for a horse owner to trust their judgement, and also difficult to speak up against an “expert,” especially when the horse owner is a woman and the expert is a man. And when women are in general socialized to “not make a fuss.”

But if it’s bad enough to write a letter of complaint after, then it is bad enough to stop at the moment, and you owe it to your horse.

Also if you have a practitioner that starts to seem a little iffy one visit, you might want to reconsider hiring them again, rather than wait until it becomes violent. Trust your gut.

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I have to say that (for me) my ability to speak up and speak out has definitely gotten easier as I’ve gotten older and wiser - not just with horses, but everything. I’m a non-confrontational sort, preferring to just smile and nod - but was brought up in the 60’s/70’s and that was the culture I came from. Not anymore! :smiley:

It’s quite liberating and satisfying to have a voice, once you find it. Burn a bridge? So what. Rock the boat? Big deal. There will be another bridge around the corner and another boat to board if the one you’re on sinks. :wink:

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I was just thinking as I was reading these replies that it is so liberating to be older and much, much more confident about everything. Assertiveness is second nature at the age of 61, it seems. I just don’t have a lot of patience for bad behavior and BS and I’m certainly not afraid to call it out when I see it. Watch out for old ladies, we don’t generally take a lot of crap anymore.:wink:

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Having thrown my share of professionals off properties due to mishandling, I too can tell you that you’re likely not the first who has protested over the rough handling of their horses.

I’m the first one who will make a horse think he’s going to die – for 3 seconds – after a dire transgression; squash me, snake your head around with teeth bared with intent, try to kick me or rear and STRIKE while in hand. They all deserve to be clobbered.

But if a horse won’t stand on a block for a radiograph, or continued to rest an opposite foot, chances are he’s in pain. You never punish pain. A vet especially knows this.

Dollars to donuts, if you ask around you’ll this vet may very well have a reputation for manhandling inappropriately. We have 2 vets in our area and 2 farriers who are known for this. You’ll hear “Dr. X? Great vet. Horrible bedside manner” or ‘Farrier Smith? Does a great job. But I’ll never let him shoe without me holding my horse because I’ve heard/ seen him do X punishment’.

Do horses sometimes deserve a kick from the flat of your foot under the belly? Sometimes yes. But the punishment has to fit the crime. Take your business elsewhere but TELL THEM why. And don’t you feel bad about it for one hot second.

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I think this is worth emphasizing but I also recognize it is easier to say than to do. In many situations, there is a strong power dynamic where you can have someone with 10+ years of additional specialized training telling you that their actions or demeanor is appropriate.

It is helpful to look ahead and think through the “what ifs” and what “no” feels more natural and accessible. It is nice to think you could pull out a dynamic monologue on animal ethics but in reality, a single sentence you feel like you can say with force is far more helpful.

For me, my go to response is simply “Nope. I’m calling it a day. This is not progressing in a way that is helpful for anyone”. I can use that line with a trainer, vet, farrier, and pretty much anyone touching a horse in my care. Even when I feel really intimidated, that’s a line I can remember and get out of my mouth.

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There are situations where owners overreact.

I was at a barn where the BO had scheduled myself and the tooth floater for the same day, so I would be available to sedate if necessary.
New boarder with a “PMU rescue” Appy/draft cross in a genuine Parelli halter. (should have walked away right then…)
Floater entered the stall and the horse barged right at him in an attempt to leave the stall.
Floater (whom I’ve known for eons, and who grew up on a an eventing farm) told owner that the horse would need to be sedated.
Owner gave permission, then added “It took 3 people to give him his spring shots.”
I entered the stall, where owner was holding onto the very end of the lead.
Horse immediately squooshed me against the wall, very deliberately.

Floater then asked, “Would you like me to hold him, Doc?”
“Yes.”

Floater got a leather halter from BO, replaced the rope one, and ran a chain through the rings and across the nose.

Owner burst into tears.
I thought she must have been stepped on, and asked “Are you ok?”
“Yes, but look what he’s doing! He’s going to hurt him!”

Floater, who has done nothing to injure or upset horse at this point, says,“Did you see what he just did to the vet? He could have cracked her ribs!”

Owner continues to sob, while we manage to get some happy drugs into horse.

Teeth were floated uneventfully, and as horse came out of his fog, owner asked me if it was ok to take him out and walk him.
She was last seen being dragged along on the end of the parelli lead as horse walked off into the woods.

BO rolled her eyes and said “They’ll be back eventually.”

Horse was due to depart for Connecticut a day or two later because “there are no hunter trainers in Massachusetts.”

Floater and exchanged a look, and he, very diplomatically said, “you might want to consider going a different route with this horse. Maybe eventing–he isn’t really the type of horse that hunter judges are going to favor.”

Fortunately for the BO and the rest of us, she never returned from wherever she went.

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This is not directed to OP - I totally understand your concern, but just as a general statement to horse owners. As someone who has worked as a tech for numerous vets over the years and is now married to a farrier, I will say it’s harder than you think to handle countless different horses in a given day. It’s not a matter of learning how to handle horses in general, it’s that they come in knowing close to nothing about each specific horse and then have to handle it in a scary situation, oftentimes when the horse is hurt or not feeling good, and they need to get a job done.

I am absolutely not excusing over the top mean or aggressive behavior, (I’ve seen it and I think some vets are just over their career) but I hate when people suggest blasting a horse professional on review sites or social media. If there have been a number of experiences with a vet when they are this way toward an animal, or it is obviously extremely over the top, that’s a different situation, but a one off with a vet or farrier you normally like doesn’t mean they deserve to be destroyed online.

They are putting their lives and livelihood on the line every single day to get this job done. If my husband gets kicked and breaks his leg or arm and is out of work for an extended period of time, we can’t afford our home or our own animals even with me working full time. We have a baby on the way and that thought goes through his head with every single horse he works on. He has to be as careful as possible to keep himself safe so he can get the job done. He never purposely hurts a horse, but if a horse is on the verge of hurting him, he will absolutely correct it. As a horse professional, you cannot wait until an injury occurs to get the horse in line. You have to get them under control proactively.

They don’t know your horse is extremely sensitive or will blow up if reprimanded, or a lazy old gelding who wont move it’s foot for anything. All they know is it’s a horse and they need to help it by getting this job done. Each horse is unique, as we all know, and it’s impossible to know what is going to work and not work with each specific horse, especially if they’ve only handled them once or twice. Oftentimes, they try a certain technique to get control of the horse and it has to be firm so the horse doesn’t think they are playing around - it works with some and it doesn’t with others.

That’s my two cents - I’m ready for the COTHers beating lol. I also do a lot of vet shopping around and am very particular. If someone seems tired or irritated consistently, then I move on. I’ve worked with 3 vets, tried 7 in the area and there are only 2 that I trust enough to work on my horses. It’s not because they don’t know how to handle horses, but they just don’t seem to jive with mine and my style of horse ownership. I choose not to work with the others, but I would never rip them apart on social or review sites. This is their career - they got into it for a reason and I doubt any of them did it because they want to hurt horses.

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OP, that situation sounds wholly unacceptable to me. I’m not sure why your vet didn’t just sedate the horse when things started to go south- much more pleasant for all involved. I’m not opposed to physical reprimands but they should be corrections for dangerous behaviors, not used to vent frustration, and only used on someone else’s horse in exceptional circumstances.

I am an equine tech and know all too well that many horse owners, despite thinking that they enforce good behavior and have well mannered animals, are not good at safely restraining their horses. Vets and techs are often in compromising situations with nervous, upset animals and if the handler can’t (or won’t) safely control the horse, it makes the job extremely difficult. It’s only human to get frustrated, too, when you’ve had a long day of that and you arrive to yet another appointment with a horse trying to kick you and the owner playing on their phone, ignoring your requests to please, help me stay safe. This doesn’t sound like what went on for you- nor does it excuse aggressive behavior. There is a big difference between having your safety compromised and just being frustrated at a situation, and since your situation seems to be a pattern of aggression from frustration at relatively benign situations, I wouldn’t be happy either.

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I didn’t see where anyone suggested posting a negative review online. Just contacting the ‘home office’, as it were, when they thought it was just the vet tech and not the vet.

There is a time and a place for a good smack. Horse barging into the vet? Running him over? Kicking? Sure, I would be okay with a smack (not endless beating). But what you described was a horse not intentionally doing something “wrong” - resting the hind foot… horse may or may not have understood what was expected, may have been in pain, etc. What you described is the tech taking his frustrations (from a long day, personal life, nerves, previous appointment, whatever) out on your horse. That is unacceptable.

I get not being comfortable stepping in and ending the appointment. I would, however, have offered to assist with setting the horse up for success. I would then contact the practice and inform them that what occurred was unacceptable and degrades the trust that I have in their ability to care for my horse especially in emergent or stressful situations, and that I would be requesting my records to be sent to a new practice.

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I think contacting the office and voicing a concern is a great way to handle it. It may not have been on this thread, but I’ve seen a lot of people blast a vet or farrier in horse related Facebook groups. It’s frustrating to see a persons reputation take a hit with a one-sided story.

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I don’t allow other people to handle my horses. They are used to ME. Other than that, find a new vet who thinks horses behave better with a familiar handler.

One of the benefits of being older, is most professionals are now considerably younger than me :slight_smile: and a few are the same age as me, and frankly I would be unlikely continue to use an 80 year old vet. Knowing what I do about aging now :slight_smile:

It is much easier to step up and say something to a vet that is half your age. And while my ten years of professional training is in another field altogether, having that training in any field helps you evaluate information and outcome.

The only unfortunate vet experience I’ve had this time around as an adult returning rider, was getting my mare tubed for impaction colic. The very young woman vet on call from the emergency clinic persisted in trying to use a tube that was too wide for my mare, and my mare was gagging and retching and the tube wouldn’t go down. After a few tries I suggested using the smaller diameter tube and the process then went totally smoothly. I will not be using that vet or that service again, or not at least until she has a couple of decades more experience. The rest of the tubing went fine.

No harm to the mare, except that she now has a situational terror of white buckets. The next time she had impaction colic and I approached her with a white bucket, she actually stood up and walked away. The bucket only had molasses water in it, no tube. She has no problem with white buckets when she is feeling well but she is now terrified of them when she has impaction colic. Fortunately the next two bouts of impaction colic resolved without vet intervention (which was what my main vet had been telling me all along) and then I did a couple of management changes and we’ve had no trouble since that one winter.