Vet takes animal 'to the back'

[harnessphoto]

I tech at a small animal clinic. We frequently get owners who are frantic when they watch their animals going for routine stuff, and they make it much harder on the animal. We welcome pet owners who are calm to watch. We do not, however, let the owner handle the animal during the exam/procedure. Nothing worse than a well-meaning owner letting a scared animals loose by accident. The rules are there to protect the patient, the owner, AND our staff.

Cats are often the worst. I’ve had cats scream and raise a racket before I even touch them. Some of the worst noises I have ever heard have been during nail trims! Having an owner in the room for a pet like that frequently makes the situation worse for everyone involved. Hearing cats screaming during vet visits is not necessarily a sign that the vet is doing something awful to them.

Again, you are welcome to watch if you can hold your s**t together, but if you are upsetting the animal or under foot, you will be asked to leave.

[GotGait]

I’ve known my vet for 30 years, and even did an internship with him when I was in high school. I let him take my Shiba to the back because I am a wreck when there’s anything wrong with him. Sometimes I go in the back too, but my dog will sulk for days if he can see me while he’s getting shots or whatever - he blames me.
My vet saved Mr. Shiba Inu’s life so he can do whatever. My dog does have a vet tech that gets assigned to watch over him. There is one guy who gets along well with him.
My Shibas also scream bloody murder over nothing which tends to upset people and animals in the waiting room. So they usually go in the back.

[Anne_FS]

[QUOTE=coloredhorse;7168606]
I think this and similar responses are a tad harsh. I read the OP’s “yelling” as hyperbole; I don’t really think many people actually “yell” at service providers, [/QUOTE]

Except that OP keeps saying it, so why not believe her? You don’t mean yell, don’t use that word.

@coloredhorse;7168606

I also don’t think contacting a new vet with the statement “my preference is to have all work performed in front of me, in the exam room; what is your policy on this?” is out of line.

Who said it’s out of line? Nobody said it’s out of line.

A number of people said it’s what they do themselves. Look at the difference between stating that preference, which the OP and a number of posters (including me) have done, and the results: for the other posters, the vets in general abide by this request for routine things, whereas for the OP, even if the vets agree to the policy, they very soon change their minds - this says to me loud and clear, “problem client.”

The attitude coming across in her posts, whether she means it or not, and it sounds like she means it, is: I know best, I don’t trust you, you probably have bad judgment, you’re probably torturing my pet, I must monitor you at all times, you don’t know squat, I know more than the doctor, you’re sneaky and don’t want me to see the dastardly deeds you do, etc. etc.

I, too, am surprised she hasn’t been escorted to the door.

I would find it odd, very odd, for an animal to be taken to the back for nothing more than routine injections.

At the same time, all you have to do is talk with ANY vet or ANY vet technician about the owners who insist they can properly restrain their pet and simply cannot. If animal hospital employees had $5 for every time they had a pet whip around and snap at or bite or scratch them while being held by the owner, they’d be in fine financial shape.

[Ticker]

It’s true, I did state that I have yelled at a vet in the past, and that I ‘wished’ that I had yelled, but didn’t.
And then I wished I had used a different word.

[microbovine]

I trust our vet. I worked for a small animal vet after high school and a large animal vet while in college, but I don’t even bother to mention that to the vet. I don’t work for her so it really doesn’t matter. The least stressful situation is the one where my pet is not reacting to me and the techs are not nervous about the owner being right there. The techs at the small animal vet’s would probably not care one way or another if I was standing right there because they are quite professional, but whatever makes it easier and gets us out of there quicker. Our dogs love the vet and the techs. I have been careful to praise them lavishly after they have a procedure, exam or shots. They know that cooperating will get them praise. If they ever acted frightened or tentative with the vet or techs, then I might ask to watch.

The cats are cared for by our mobile large animal vet so I get to hold them. Oh joy. LOL!

For those that don’t have that level of trust with their vet, I remember a stupid simple tip that seems to work with cats, dogs, horses (especially horses because they can read us like a book). Don’t ever watch the needle going in. Your animal is watching you closely and will detect tiny reactions from you. Instead, look at your horse, dog, cat…well…crap, maybe not cats. Nothing works on cats. That small animal vet I worked for after high school put it best; get everything ready, grab the cat, quickly but firmly, do the deed and get him back to his cage quickly. Don’t try coddling a cat. Shots hurt and cats go from purr to pissed in a heartbeat. Cuddle kitty after he’s calmed down. That vet was so dang fast that the cats often didn’t start yowling until we were rushing them back to their cage, LOL!

[BostonBanker]

I left a vet recently because my dog was taken into the back after I specifically said I was not okay with it. I went in with both my dogs for their spring visit; when the tech asked to take them, I said “It’s okay to take this one back, but the older dog is not okay with that. She needs to be done in the room with me.”. The tech said it was fine, came back with the young dog. The vet tried for at least 3 minutes (that was the part I actually watched the clock for) to get blood from my older dog’s front leg, rear leg, and jugular. My dog remained un-muzzled, held by the tech, and polite through it all, when he finally dragged her out the back door saying “we’ll be back” as it closed. I’m still upset with myself that I didn’t catch it in time to just take her leash and say “we won’t”.

Just as it is my job to be clear to a vet when I am not comfortable with one of his/her policies, it is their job to discuss something with me if I make it clear how I want something done and they aren’t willing or able to do it that way. If he had said “I want to take her in the back and use a tourniquet, is that okay?” I would have been fine with it (not him taking her back, but him asking the question). Dragging her out of the room when I said no is not okay. If the vet’s policies don’t match what I want for a service, I don’t expect them to change. I assume they have those policies for a reason. But changing on the fly without discussing it with the owner isn’t okay, particularly in a non-emergency situation.

If vets want to talk about me in their secret circles, they are welcome to do so. I’m equally willing and able to discuss why I left that vet.

[Justmyluck]

Work for a vet for a while and you will quickly learn why animals are taken to the back.

[SarahandSam]

[QUOTE=Ticker;7168495]
No, I’m not anti-euthanasia. Any vet will tell you that the meds used for euthanasia are dangerous…even to people. If safety is the big reason for taking fluffy to the back, then it should not be common to be able to ‘hold’ and watch your pet leave this world…in case someone accidentally gets poked. …and yet, they will take fluffy to the back for a simple vaccine…because it’s safer.
Do I need to further clarify?[/QUOTE]

It’s not so much that you need to “clarify,” it’s that your referring to people having “nasty drugs stuck into their pets to kill them” is a rather bluntly insensitive way to talk about euthanasia on a board where there have been several posts about making this really tough decision or dealing with older pets.

[Ticker]

[QUOTE=SarahandSam;7168797]
It’s not so much that you need to “clarify,” it’s that your referring to people having “nasty drugs stuck into their pets to kill them” is a rather bluntly insensitive way to talk about euthanasia on a board where there have been several posts about making this really tough decision or dealing with older pets.[/QUOTE]

I must profusely apologize then. I meant no disrespect. I see how insensitive that may have been. Please forgive my stupidity.

[JoZ]

[QUOTE=Ticker;7168802]
I must profusely apologize then. I meant no disrespect. I see how insensitive that may have been. Please forgive my stupidity.[/QUOTE]

You can edit/remove your post, if you haven’t already.

I can see both sides. My heart hurt for my tiny baby kitten when she was constipated and they were trying several mechanical methods to get her to go. But she is SO loved by everyone at the vet, and I trust the vet, so I accepted that I really didn’t need to know exactly what the “fecal hook” was and how it was being used. The kitten loves everyone who comes in contact with her so I really didn’t feel like I was offering her any particular comfort.

My old cat Desmond was the worst vet cat imaginable. I had to go to the emergency room after my first vet trip with him, where I extrapolated from our lovely at-home relationship and decided I could cajole him out of his vet-office anguish. Yeah right. Bit right down to the bone. With him, too, I added nothing to the equation. In his old age I wanted him to be examined, I needed him to be restrained enough to get blood and other diagnostics, and quite honestly I didn’t care what they had to do to get it. Years were spent trying to make it easier/better/POSSIBLE with Mr. Desmond to no avail. Now remember this is with a vet I trusted.

If I had a vet I didn’t trust, I wouldn’t use that vet.
If I had a pet that clearly did better in my presence, I would insist and I would hope my wishes would be honored.
Other than that, I’m ok with them taking my gang “to the back”.

[Calico]

I gratefully let the vet or tech take my cat “to the back” because he fur-bombs like a mother when he’s pissed off. It’s like a fur confetti cannon aimed at my face. Not fun.

[Ticker]

JoZ: thanks for the suggestion. I removed most of the post, but it has already been copied.

[SquishTheBunny]

I think all pets should be examined with the owners in the room, unless the animals are guarding their owners. It happens, and these pets are often better away from their owners.

I do not agree that blood should be pulled infront of owners, unless specifically requested. I have had owners faint, I have had owners let go of their cats and been NAILED hard - resulting in a trip to the hospital for IV antibiotics. I have also had owners let go of dogs, and resulting in the vein blowing.

Many owners are capable, and many owners are fine holding for a cephalic venipuncture but not a jugular.

Ideally, blood should be pulled from a jugular (often a restraint owners are not comfortable with) as the more pokes in the leg, the more scar tissue builds up. I have seen animals come in through emergency who have had their regular bloodwork pulled from a cephalic…man, catheter placement is not pleasant for these dogs.

Some blood does need to be pulled in the back, for example a clotting time. You need to be beside the ACT machine to immediately put the blood in. Often the ACT machine is at the triage centre, in the back room. Owners are not supposed to come back as there are often critical patients back there, and owners visiting their very ill, or dying patients.

There is also pressure of owners watching while you are trying to obtain samples. For most techs, its not a concern…but you also get those owners screaming “you’re hurting him!”.

I have placed IV catheters in a room with a client before. Most go very smoothly. I had one that bled a little, and the owner freaked out saying that she didn’t want to have to pay for a blood transfusion because I don’t know how to do this properly… seriously?

We have even done chemotherapy in a room with an owner. We don’t recommend it, and make the owners sign waivers - but if they request it we do what we can to make it happen. This dog inparticular was VERY aggressive with the owners present, so it had to be heavily sedated for the procedure. Without the owners present, the dog did not need any sedation - however it was the owners wishes that they stayed with their dog at all times.

The only thing we will not let owners be present for is xrays. They don’t have a dosimeter, they don’t assist with radiographs simple as that.

We have even had an owner stand in the surgical suite for a routine procedure (TPLO) but typically suggest owners NOT be present for surgery.

Vaccines, suture removals etc. always done infront of the owner unless they request not to be present.

Euthanasias are always done with the owners as well, unless they prefer not to be there. We do ask to take the patient to the back for an IV catheter to ensure the euthanasia goes smoothly, if the owner wishes to be present that’s fine but often the older sickies take multiple attempts at feeding catheters (especially if the previous vet/tech has used a front leg for collecting blood!!!) and the owners prefer not to see fluffy poked two-three times.

[harnessphoto]

[QUOTE=BostonBanker;7168725]

Just as it is my job to be clear to a vet when I am not comfortable with one of his/her policies, it is their job to discuss something with me if I make it clear how I want something done and they aren’t willing or able to do it that way. .[/QUOTE]

I 100% agree. And, if you don’t like the way they do it, you are welcome to take your pet somewhere that’s more on board with your preferences. There are times when I wish I could tell clients, “You are welcome to go somewhere else with your pet, but don’t try to tell us how to best run our clinic.”

[MistyBlue]

I don’t envy small animal vets’ jobs. There’s obviously not an emotional control test given to all pet owners and I’d imagine there are plenty of issues to go around for the vets and vet techs to deal with.

Reading this I’m surprised at how different my experience with different small animal vet offices have been. I’ve never had a pet removed for an IV or sutures and I’ve always been asked if I want to accompany them in back to be present for x-rays.

The only time I’ve ever had an animal removed to the back was that somewhat recent appointment with my kitten when it was her first trip there and my first time meeting the new vet at the clinic. I was surprised because it had never happened before or even been suggested, but then not surprised as I also assumed plenty of vets get nailed by cats improperly held by owners. Cats are tough to hold still when they don’t want to be held still. They turn inside their skins, it’s like trying to hold wet soap, LOL! However my next visit she stayed in the room and vaccinated my kitten with me holding her.

I guess I’m both surprised and not surprised…surprised because I’ve always been present for whatever is being done to my dogs and cats, nobody ever questioned it. The subject was never even raised except for once in an intro visit to a new office we were going to start using after we moved, we never ended up using that office but it was for different reasons. But also not surprised because I’ve seen plenty of nervous pet owners that don’t help the pets’ nerves and those who don’t know how to constrain their pets. And employees have got to be sick of being bitten and scratched.

[Beckham03]

[QUOTE=Chachie;7168138]
I’m a vet tech so let me chime on because this really struck a nerve…
First of all, no one is torturing your pet when we take it to the back. There are many reasons why we don’t do things in front of owners but the number one reason is safety.
My job as a tech, whether I am working with horses or small animals, is to make sure your pet is given its care safely. Safety is the biggest concern for your pet, who can’t comprehend what we are doing and why we do it, you, who is worried about your pet, which is picking up on everything you feel, and us, the veterinary team who really enjoys a day where we aren’t getting kicked in the head or having our faces bitten off.
Your pet does not understand that we need it to lie still and not move when it feels a needle prick or feels the clippers vibrate. It comes to the hospital smelling sick animals, perhaps blood and death. It picks up on emotions from you and the other nervous pets that have been there. So while your sweet sunshine of a kitty may be a ball of purring fuzz at home, most times when she gets to the vet she’s already PO’d about having to get in the carrier, go for a ride and now has strange people poking and proding her in places no one but her should touch. So she wants to attack anyone and everyone she can, which could include you.
So we take Fluffy to the back and restrain her in ways that while they might look barbaric to you, are actually making it safer for Fluffy and us. We have a larger area to work in with our supplies around us, extra hands who are trained to help, plus safety equipment like muzzles and cat bags and gloves if we need them.
Yes cats will scream and dogs will whine but that’s because we can’t make them understand that if they sit very still while we try to poke that rolly polly vein in their back leg, we can get them back to you quicker. Most times I will refuse to do treatments or take blood in front of an owner. Not because I’m shady and don’t want you to see me torturing Fluffy, its because I know that you will try to help me do my job and might get us all hurt in the process because you aren’t trained to restrain Fluffy in a way where she can’t night you me or anyone else. I won’t allow anyone to hold a pet unless they are trained staff. This goes for when I work with horses too.
Ive told Olympic riders to stand to the side when we work on their horses. Not because I think they are incompetent but because some people just don’t know how to hold an animal for veterinary exams and treatments. Horse people especially can be dangerous because they see a horse react and automatically feel the need to correct the reaction, which makes the horse tense and uncooperative even more. During vet exams, trainers try to train instead of staying out of the way. It’s not easy and sometimes owners riders trainers can make it worse.
So there you go. That’s why we do what we do. It isn’t to hide our scary torture tactics or anything. It’s to protect you and your pet as well as us while trying to make it easier on your pet.
If that’s wrong in your eyes, keep moving around from vet to vet. Your reputation will show up before you do. We all talk, even if we are competition and the one thing we hate is a difficult owner. Difficult pets are ok but when owners create issues without finding out the reasons why we do things, you just make it harder on yourself.
I knew one woman who pissed off all of the equine vets in the tri state area by disputing their diagnosis of ringbone on her horse that when she had an emergency no one would go to her farm. She refused to listen to the vets in this small town, dragged her horse to each and everyone of them without paying her bills from the last one until finally they refused to see her. Not even for emergencies. She argued with all of them, bad mouthed them to the next one and behaved awfully every time she got the same diagnosis as the last vet. So when her horse coliced, no one, not even the cow vet would go see her.
Don’t become that lady for your animals sake. Just because you call a vet, it doesn’t mean they have to see you and if you cause problems at one vet, chances are the new vet will find out too. Talk to your vet about options before you pack up Fluffy and head somewhere else.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I am late to the party and a tech as well. I work in a large specialty hospital and I don’t think a good neuro exam can be done when the dog is trying to run to the owner All pets are taken in the “back” (we have different departments), their exam and workups are done, then they go back to the owner. Dogs getting chemo, etc, are sometimes there all day. Animals are not abused. Quite the opposite…they are usually getting baby talked and petted all day. Potty breaks, water, etc. People would be surprised how happy they are and NOT freaking out once they are away from the owner…not feeling that stressed. We have “regulars” who are often quite happy to be there as they know they will be getting all kinds of attention.

Not all owners are capable of restraining, watching, etc and if someone gets bit in the room, the vet is responsible. Owners have passed out, freaked out, etc.

I used to be of the opinion that I would NEVER let my pets be taken away from me and now that I have worked in this environment, I see the benefit and have completely changed my mind. And, I have seen how much better my dogs are when I am not there. Over the past few weeks I have had to bring sick cats in and I drop them off to the appropriate department and go to my shift as I know they are better without me hovering.

[Laurierace]

Why does the owner have to be the one who restrains the animal “in the front?” Why can’t whoever was going to restrain the animal in the back come do it in front? If liability of improper restraint is the reasoning, just take that reasoning away. I will never ever use a vet that takes the animal away for euthanasia ever again. Have me sign a waiver, make me sit down and shut up, whatever, but do not take my animal away when they need me there the most.

[SquishTheBunny]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;7168964]
Why does the owner have to be the one who restrains the animal “in the front?” Why can’t whoever was going to restrain the animal in the back come do it in front? If liability of improper restraint is the reasoning, just take that reasoning away. I will never ever use a vet that takes the animal away for euthanasia ever again. Have me sign a waiver, make me sit down and shut up, whatever, but do not take my animal away when they need me there the most.[/QUOTE]

Because often times to have TWO people leave the treatment room (while there are other patients back there too) is not always viable. While it takes 30 seconds to grab an animal care attendant to hold kitty while you pull blood, it takes about 5 minutes to bring all the equipment in the room, wait for your ACA to be free, run back to treatment room to grab equipment you may need (ie. muzzle, towel, extra needle) and meanwhile try not to be rude to an owner who is trying to help you restrain kitty or is in the middle of telling you a story about how fluffy eats this and that food…

trust me, faster and more efficient, less distraction at the back. However, if owners are OK with being patient then most of the time its absolutely doo-able. Just understand why its easier to have it done the other way. Believe it or not, most dogs don’t “need” you for support during a blood draw, but as an owner, I totally understand the want to be present.

And I agree with you 100% that for euthanasia, you should absolutely be present. Having the patient in the back for a difficult IV placement is one thing, but once they have the IV catheter placed they should spend as much time with the owners as needed and be in your arms while they are passing. Not allowing the owner to be present for the euthanasia IMHO is malpractice.

[Alagirl]

I was rather glad when the vet and his tech took kitty bear from me when we had to rush him to the office. By the time I got there nerves took over and I was about ready to faint…it was just luck that he had not left that location that day kitty bear came home with a puncture wound to the eye…

[shakeytails]

The vet practice I use for my small animals knows I have horses, and knows I’m not the least bit squeamish. I’ve held my own pups for tail docking and everything else- they know I can follow directions on how they’d like an animal positioned or restrained. They have always asked, though, if I wanted to hold for euthanasia. The answer is always yes, but I appreciate their asking, handing me more tissues when it’s over, and carrying the dog to the car for me. The only time I’ve ever not been there (besides surgery of course) is for nail clipping, but only because that particular dog was much better for that procedure when I wasn’t in the room.

I can totally understand a vet wanting to take a critter “in the back” because most people are idjits that just don’t “get” medical procedures. I wouldn’t want to deal with an “OMG you’re hurting poor Fluffy” owner either.