Veterinary Specialist as a Career?

[AlterSchmalter]

I’m a Canadian student currently in undergrad with a gpa and enough vet and animal related experience to be competitive in applying to vet school. For the sake of this thread, let’s say I get in. I’d really like to focus this thread on the “end game.”

I’m not really interested in general practice. I would much rather specialize. I am interested in internal medicine. I think I would really like oncology. I’m not sure though because I don’t have experience outside SA general practice and equine practices.*I also can’t seem to get a good feel for any specialty’s job description, pay scale, and lifestyle as this information does not seem to be written by a credible source or it relates to US vets.*I feel like I need this information to make a semi-informed decision.

As a side note, I did read AVMA’s description of veterinary specialists, but I am more interested in talking to people. I’ve checked out the SDN forums, but again, I’m just not getting enough information.*I’m guessing this is because there are very few specialists relative to general practitioners. I’m not sure if this is a good thing or not.

So cothers in the know, I’m looking for solid stats- not this specialist I know drives BMW so he must be doing well. If you have any reliable info to pass on about the specific questions I’ve asked or have answers to questions I haven’t asked, I would be very happy to hear it!

How many hours per week do most specialists work? Do most specialists outside critical care/emergency work 9-5 jobs with little to no call? If they do have call, what does the call schedule generally look like?

Does board certification follow the same process in Canada as it does in the US for each specialty?

Is there a reliable source to look determine expected earnings? I’ve gone so far as to search for job openings. None of them are listing salary. I just have no idea what to expect on this front. What is the salary difference working out of a veterinary college vs. private practice? Where do most specialist choose to practice?

What about job prospects? I don’t want to potentially go through all of this schooling and have to work at Tim Hortons. In general what specialties have the best prospects? Any specialty I should not even consider if I want a job at the end?

Is there anything else I should know?

[AlterSchmalter]

Cookies if you got through the whole post

[make_x_it_x_so]

I can’t offer much as I’m just a measly first-year vet student, just about a month into my veterinary education. I did find this page- if you look at the last graph it shows what the salary ranges of board certified vs. regular DVMs are. I’d imagine that jobs for specialists are competitive and most often associated with universities/veterinary schools.

I don’t want to go into private practice either- I am considering getting my masters in public health on top of my DVM and have considered working for the CDC or something similar.

Sorry that I can’t provide more actual data- doesn’t seem that many people have analyzed it. Good luck with everything!

[LauraKY]

Have you considered a combined DVM/PhD program? You will need to be highly competitive academically, with research experience.

[Horsegal984]

Salary wise our vets are on a base salary with commission based ‘bonuses’ so to speak.

Our Specialists work 8-5, but they are often there till 6 or so doing paperwork and such. The on call schedule varies a lot based on dr preference and the clinics requirements. Our hospitals always have an internist and a surgeon on call, however between our 3 local hospitals we have 7 internists on staff so each dr is only on call about one weekend every other month.

Here in the US the best way to get an idea of if you truly want to specialize is to do a one year rotating internship in a practice with multiple specialists. Here our interns cover surgery, internal medicine, energency, optho, neuro, Onco, with the option to do behavior and avian/exotics. Many of our interns then go on to specialized internships or straight into residencies in their desired specialities.

No clue how or if that helps you in Canada, but its all I got

[AlterSchmalter]

Thank you all for the information. I’ll take what I can get! I’m not at all interested in the DVM/PhD track, Laura, but thanks for the suggestion

[SquishTheBunny]

I work in a Toronto hospital with 4 internists.

Typically, the schedule is 8/9am-6pm Monday-Thursday, or Tuesday-Friday.

There are some days that you stay late, some you leave early.

There are occasional emergencies where an internist will have to come in for an emergency scope, but works out to be 1 weekend on call per month.

Specialists do have better hours in general. From what I have gathered however, demand for internists aren’t high in the Toronto area, but that may change in 10 years.

The internists here don’t work based on commission, they are salary. But this is a private practice, so each hospital will be different in what is offered. I know some other referral clinics go based on # appts, however ours are the same regardless to ensure all clients get enough time spent with them and not rushed through appts.

Also, something to consider is to work in general practice for a few years before doing your specialty. Many clinics are going to want to know that you have A+ client communications and a good reputation as a regular vet before hiring you as a specialist, especially if you want to work in private practice or a university setting.

Board certification is the exact same in Canada as the US, same exam and written in the same location.

Salary is going to range big time. Based on “salary” vs. commission, based on if you need your own equipment (ie. ultrasound, scopes) or if its hospital provided. Universities generally hire short term, while “full time” jobs are more often in private referral clinics. As a new internist coming out of school with no reputation in GP, you are likely not going to make more than a good GP vet. It will also depend on your location. I wouldn’t be expecting 6 figures, if that’s what you were thinking.

[AlterSchmalter]

Do you know fields tend to be more in demand, Squish?

[SquishTheBunny]

Current demand wont predict demand in 5-10 years…when you would be looking at graduating.

Its regional, and its dependent on how many grads come out.

Overall, in the Toronto area we are “too” populated with vets, GP and referral. OVC has so many grads every year, and as most want to stay in the Toronto area there are lots who do not go into practice.

We have many services, cardiology, neurology, surgery, rehab, medicine, imaging, critical care etc. some days appts are booked and some days we have spots available. Of ALL the services, the one consistently steady is surgery because despite the economy, patients will always need surgery.

[AlterSchmalter]

Thank you. I really appreciate your input. Are there any Canadian vet forums you can recommend?

[SquishTheBunny]

Are you at OVC? They have a facebook group for their new students

If not, might be worth going though applications to vet school first before jumping the gun and picking a specialty right away. There are LOTS to choose from, and once in school you will spend time within each specialty department and can go from there.

[AlterSchmalter]

Very true. I’m certainly not set on one speciality, but would go into vet med with the goal of specializing. If specializing isn’t a good option because of projected poor job market or low return on investment, then I’d really like to find that out now before I waste time applying. Do you think it’s a pipe dream?

No, not at OVC.

[jreventer]

Here are my two cents as a vet currently working in private practice.

I would strongly recommend only going to vet school if you would be happy working as a general vet. And going into vet school with an open mind. You would be surprised what you actually enjoy/excel at once in vet school. You may be able to specialize but what if you can’t? Are you going to hate general practice? Life changes and sometimes the best plans have to change. So if “just being a vet” is not enough, I would think long and hard about this. I am not trying to discourage anyone from vet school. I love my job-but I think people need to go in eyes wide open. It is hard work, long hours, and expensive to go to vet school!

And I would not go to vet school with the idea of making large amounts of money upon graduating. The market is flooded so many vets are having trouble finding jobs or are having to work for lower salaries. I am not implying you cannot make a decent salary, but it can be a tough market.

Not to say you can’t specialize but that is a long way off. Residencies are competitive. Also would you be happy working in a university setting as that is where a lot of specialist are hired. Although this is changing with more private speciality hospitals. As far as which areas to specialize in-I wouldn’t even think if this until you are in vet school. I really thought I hated surgery until I got into school-I love it. So have an open mind!

It will take many years working to “pay off” the cost of vet school and a residency. The cost of vet school alone (depending on in state/out of state, etc) ranges for most people from $100,000 to 200,000+. Then if you add in the “cost” of a residency and a year to study/take boards. Yes you will make a small amount during this time but unlikely enough to live debt free and start repaying loans. So after 7-8 years of training, you will be able to get a job as a specialist. BUT a lot of vets are doing residency training now so jobs are harder to find. And I think this is going to continue with time.

I graduated vet school with the plan to do an equine surgery residency. I mapped out my career based on this. However, along the way I worked with several excellent board certified surgeons who were working in general practice because they could not find jobs as surgeons or were on call all the time, working crazy hours, etc. The on call was not a deal breaker for me, but the idea of going more into debt and not being able to find a job as a surgeon was. It made no financial sense.

Long and rambling answer, but hopefully helpful

[SquishTheBunny]

Not pipe dream. There will always be the need for specialists, but location will dictate this as will the economy.

If your goal is to make a ton of money without working hard, its not the job for you. You may not get a high return on investment, or a job. Or you might, and you might be driving a BMW to your farm after your shifts.

If you don’t want to be a regular vet, but just want to specialize then you likely wont enjoy the job. They are very closely related.

[Eventer13]

What jreventer said. You will be very surprised what you like/don’t like when you get to vet school. I was all set to go into surgery or imaging. Now I’m saying no to surgery (I actually really like internal med, which I had thought I would hate), and I’m not sure I want to look at radiographs all day long so imaging is probably out. I love horses, but I worry about the hours and pay (and job market) so I’m keeping my options open for small animal side of things. I would love to specialize, but now that I realize what that entails (1 year internship + 3 years residency making next to nothing), I’m on the fence, questioning whether it is worth the time and money if I’m not really guaranteed a job. I also thought there was NO WAY I would want to be a GP. Never, ever. Now I’m finding I like so many areas, that I might actually prefer that over specializing and doing the same thing over and over every day.

From what I have heard, specialist salaries are decreasing because there is a glut on the market. While there will always be jobs, that doesn’t mean there are a lot of them (and as a new grad, you will be hard-pressed to be picked when there are lots of other people out there with 5, 10, 15 years under their belt).

The US is also in the process of opening 3 (yes, THREE!!) new vet schools. Exactly what we don’t need… but I won’t get on a soap box about that.

[CrowneDragon]

Have you thought about human medicine?

[AlterSchmalter]

[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7172537]
Have you thought about human medicine?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I have. I didn’t put that in my OP because it’s taboo to be undecided between the two. People get all up in arms about it.

I like people. I just don’t know if I want to only deal with people all day. I like helping people and their critters. On the other hand, maybe I would be more satisfied choosing a career away from the veterinary field and just keep my critter related stuff as a serious hobby. Maybe I also need to make another thread about how to choose a career. I’m very confused LOL

[make_x_it_x_so]

There’s nothing wrong with being undecided between human and vetmed! Anyone who doesn’t see the overlap has some serious blinders on to reality.

[LauraKY]

OP, see if you can shadow some human doctors. It might help you make your decision.

[AlterSchmalter]

[QUOTE=make x it x so;7172883]
There’s nothing wrong with being undecided between human and vetmed! Anyone who doesn’t see the overlap has some serious blinders on to reality.[/QUOTE]

That’s my take too, but I’ve recieved the wrath of some pre-meds for it and didn’t feel like going down that road again

As for shadowing physicians, it’s very hit and miss here in Canada. I have not had luck in the shadowing department. The vast majority of hospitals require you to be a medical student if you’re shadowing. The pre-meds that do get to shadow often have a physician as a family friend.

I’ve talked to a couple med students. Their recommendation was not to sweat the lack of exposure. They’ve said the small amount of what you see when shadowing really doesn’t give a true picture of a physician’s day and even if I hated it, it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like being a medical doctor. I might just not enjoy that speciality. They also encouraged me to continue having veterinary exposure because I’m gaining valuable clinical skills.

I’ve been trying to focus my energy on talking to people in the fields I’m interested. I want to hear the good, bad, and the ugly from as many different people as possible. I’m hoping this will give me the best idea of what I’m getting myself into. Wherever I wind up, it’s going to be somewhat of a leap of faith.