Menu

Stay in Touch
Sign up for ENews
Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

Vetting The Young Horse

Horse Care
#1

My last 3 purchases have been 2 years old (horse #1), 2 years old (#2) and 4 years old (#3). At those ages, vetting is often more cursory than an older horse’s exam might be. But, sadly, I have learned that within these young, unused bodies, seeds of future impairment are lurking.

In retrospect, there were signs I now know to be suspicious. Given that all 3 are WB’s I should have expected different body parts to be growing along the same timeline. But, in hindsight, horses 1 and 2 both had necks that were less developed than one might expect, given their gorgeous and muscling-up bodies. Since I come from an OTTB background, I was used to seeing underdeveloped necks, so I did not hear any bells going off.

In retrospect, both horses had pre-neurological cervical vertebrae.

#1 had malformations of almost every vertebra in his neck The extent of the problems surprised the vets during the necropsy – especially since he was jumping high and clear with such a bad neck. He was a jumper and was so talented that he did not need to use his front end for balance at the lower heights. He just jumped higher. But, when he got to 1.40m, he needed to use his neck, but it could not function correctly. The vertebra ended up “running into each other” (for lack of a proper word). At this point, he became severely neurological and had to be euthanized 2 weeks after the first symptom. (And just 4 weeks after he had jumped several clear rounds in Fla.) This was my wonderful Waldo.

#2: I co-own him and was not as involved with as I am with my other horses. But, looking at him now, it appears that he also has a neck that is underdeveloped when compared to his body. And he has had trouble staying muscled up in that area. Preliminary tests have indicated that he has spinal stenosis at 2 - 3 levels. (c5-c6, c6 -c7 and perhaps c7-T1). His future is/was as a dressage horse and the problem became evident when he was asked to soften to the bit and use his hind end. Doing this created so much pain that he would lower his neck and refuse to raise it for 30 min. up to 24 hours.

The extent of his issue is still being evaluated. But, at best, his future is in jeopardy

#3 is my beloved Goober. His problem is a dropped pastern which creates suspensory issues. The failure on my part, in his case, was that I was not there for the vetting and I did not press the vet for more information.

What has all this taught me? Well…

  1. Take off rose-colored glasses. Look long and hard at the horse in front of you. TRY to find flaws; the vet can respond to your concerns if you ask about them.
    2: Have a basic neuro test done at ALL vettings. Before the vetting, do your homework ---- know what is ‘normal’ what is not and how the vet is reaching his conclusions. ASK QUESTIONS. If something looks funny to you, have the vet respond at great length how he is reaching his conclusions. Of course, if this is not your regular vet, have everything video’d so your home vet can look at everything. If ANYTHING seems NQR, follow up on it. This is not a time to watch your pennies.

Had I taken my own (excellent :slight_smile: ) suggestions, I would probably have rejected all 3 horses. The vet’s job is to give an opinion on what he sees before him ON THAT DAY. Your interests diverge because you want his opinion on how the horse will look 5 years down the road. He can only try to do that if he looks for trouble and follows up on his instincts.

Given the amount of information on the Internet, there is no reason that any buyer should not be 100% prepared to “see what the vet sees” and to ask knowledgable questions. Don’t regret that ‘if only’ [I had done or asked or listened] better, I might not have bought the horse. ALSO be aware that heredity issues are cropping up with WB’s. Specifically, ask the vet if he knows of these issues. If he doesn’t, then you need to educate him so he can look for problems

No horse in the world is perfect. And everyone needs to know their tolerance level for flaws. But neurologic issues and hereditary issues should be a red flag. It is not my place to name/discuss these issues, but, as a potential buyer, it behooves you to know about them. There is a chance that all 3 of my horses’ issues might have come directly down from a parent. But I had no idea that I needed to ask about the possibility that [e.g.] the “W” line is known for ____ especially when crossed with the [e.g.] R line.

Now I cannot wait to see what other caveats people can share from their experiences.

#2

Vet it even when you don’t think you need to! I’d been so confident that one would pass I was already making shipping arrangements…Somehow, the grade 2/5 heart murmur had never been picked up. He was a young, still growing draft horse from a well respected breeder. It shocked them as much as me. I still wonder what has happened to him. Hard call to make too, since so many murmurs aren’t anything.

#3

I’ve purchased more young horses than old and it seems like the ones I do decided to vet, vet horribly. And the ones that I don’t vet, but I go on to sell in a few years I have been very lucky with.

I used to have such a hard time justifying PPE’s horses under $15,000 but some of those horses can end up costing you the most.

I started breeding my own youngsters a few years ago and I’ve been trying to gain knowledge in the area of hereditary conditions.

#4

Great thread and advice. You do want a vet that can spot conformation issues that will impact a horse as they grow and advance in training. And, you want to educate yourself so you know what can be corrected with proper farrier work and what conditions will only worsen over time - particularly if the horse is in performance.

Question for OP: For your horse #1 - are you saying that an x-ray at time of purchase would have shown the problems in his neck? Or, was his neck condition a congenital condition that caused a progressive degeneration of the vertebrae?

#5

My last eight horses (over 29 years) were all age 6 months to 5 years when I bought them, priced between $125 & $3500, and green broke or unbroken. I did not vet the three from the auction as weanlings/yearlings and all three turned out just fine. I sold one at age 3, one at age 7, and kept one until I had to euthanize for blindness at 17. I also didn’t vet the yearling I got from a rescue as a yearling and is now 12. None of these horses were ever lame at all in the time I had them, other than an abscess (or uveitis in the case of the one who eventually went blind in both eyes).

I didn’t vet the 2 year old that I had known since birth. That went okay, too, but now as a 25 year old, she is fairly arthritic. She was always sound in the prime of her life and while being ridden regularly.

The remaining three I did vet:

3 year old which the vet said had a mild heart murmur that “shouldn’t be a problem”. I evented her through training level and one morning when she was 9 I found her dead in the field, with no signs of a struggle. It was probably an aortic rupture. Was it because of the murmur or something else? I’ll never know. She had gone on an easy trail ride the day before and I’m pretty sure it was not during the competition season.

5 year old - vetted with no issues, and I’ve had her for 5 trouble-free years so far.

Another 5 year old who is now 8, and no problems so far.

#6

I hear you! When I vetted my DSLD horse that I had to put down at 5 years old, he was a weanling, so vetting was pretty limited. My trainer thought I was silly to even take x-rays as she never does that with young horses. The x-rays showed stifle OCDs though so my vet advised me to wait and see how they developed. The breeder took subsequent x-rays and I bought him as a yearling on the vet’s advice based on those x-rays. All of this is just to say that I didn’t see him in person between 4 months and 1 year.

When I saw him in person again the day I actually bought him as a yearling, I thought to myself that something was odd about his hind hooves/pasterns but I didn’t have the knowledge to articulate what. It didn’t worry me too much. After all, he had passed a vetting, and he had just scored a 7 on his hind end in an AHS futurity. (Yes, that same hind end that vets would later flag as career-limiting and basically guaranteed to cause unsoundness.) What did I know?

Other than day-to-day care I didn’t do much with him until he was 3. He did go to a breed show as a 2-year-old for the experience, and scored well on his hind end again. The next year when I started him, I noticed that he was hard to square up for saddling. I’d ask him to weight one hind leg and the other one would immediately cock. I mentioned it to a couple of vets and no one thought it was worrisome. At least 3 vets saw him for routine stuff and didn’t raise any red flags. My very experienced coach didn’t see anything glaringly wrong with his hind end. His training progressed wonderfully.

Then he went lame as a 4-year-old and I took him to the first lameness expert. She also didn’t raise red flags about his hind end. It wasn’t until the second opinion that someone said, “This horse is never going to stay sound because of his hind end.” I was blindsided and cried on and off for days. That opinion was echoed by the next 3 vets.

And still, nobody mentioned to me that it could be DSLD. I had to ask them myself after reading about it on these forums and elsewhere. And when I did, I was told, “I wouldn’t worry about that.” One year, lots of self-doubt, many dollars, and many conflicting opinions later, the horse was diagnosed with DSLD by necropsy.

After an experience like that, I don’t even know how to trust veterinary advice anymore…

3 Likes
#7

TCA; I think it was both. If a basic neuro exam (tail pull, backing up, walk/trot in small circles, one foot on the other, up and down a slope with head raised) shows any suggestion of a deficit, then you think about more tests. However, a lot of neuro issues involve arthritis (often due to a malformation in the neck/spine) which gets worse with work. I am guessing that a basic x-ray or ultrasound might show that there is an irregularity, but it may not look bad/important at the young age of the horse (who may not even be under saddle at the time). But, now I know to ask follow up questions if anything is not making sense.

Of course, if there is (truly) nothing that shows up at the vetting, but the horse becomes neuro or lame within several years, then it comes under the heading of “Oh, well. Things happen”. Waldo (#1) vetted clean upon a normal vetting. But, even then he had an unusually skinny neck. It did not occur to me to ask “why”. Now I would. [In hindsight, I think the neck was so skinny because it never developed muscle because his neck hurt, so he was protecting his neck, even as the rest of his body developed. Of course, hindsight is wonderful…

Two hours ago I came back from watching a vet inject horse #2 at C6-C7 and C7-T1. She explained that these were the levels that the NC State vet had noticed last summer. HUH? That was 6 months ago and, going back to read the language in the report, all the vet said was ‘evidence of minor arthritis’. And this was in a horse who was showing neuro issues. Ummmmmm. Just maybe “minor arthritis” + neuro issues should have made someone want to look further. My co-owner in #2 went ballistic with her vet today (my co-owner is so nice that she would not say shit if her mouth was full of it). Said co-owner was angry at the NC State people, but there was plenty of blame to go around. NO ONE connected the dots until the wonderful vet at New Bolton took 1 look at the x-rays and immediately saw what no one else had seen – or thought to mention.

Now I would know enough to ask: What part of the vertebrae is showing the beginning of arthritis? (important because arthritis may be less worrisome in one area, but more potentially limiting in another). 2. If the joint continues to become more arthritic, might the spinal cord become involved’? “Are there any synonyms which I can use to look up the diagnosis”? The New Bolton vet said she saw that the horse had Foraminal Stenosis. HUH??? THAT is something that a layman can research, and be worried about). The vet today said, “Oh, Foraminal Stenosis and arthritis are the same thing, and we understand what it means”. Well, Effin A ----- A layman does not understand that. A layman needs to know how to do homework that will lead to valuable information. Grrrrrr.

No one has a crystal ball, but I am now in the position of 3 times out of 3 I have bought a horse who is unrideable by the time it is 5 (I am including Goober because, while he does not have a neuro problem, his dropped pastern obviously did not concern the vet. But, OTOH, now I would be extrapolating his current “malformation” into how it would create problems in the future).

Would I have walked away if I had known all this? Yes. Because I have walked away. I found a young horse who was an incredible jumper, but who had suspicious signs on his x-rays. I walked away. Now, 3 years later, the bones have developed and the suspicious signs are no longer there and the horse is awesome. But I still think that made the right decision.

All a buyer can do is to trust the vet to point out minor issues that he/she can then ask his opinion on the long term prognosis. And, if there are gray areas, have all records sent to a specialist in that issue. This past year I have sent files to a lameness specialist and a neuro specialist. Both times I have gotten my money’s worth (and more).

1 Like
#8

I feel like you are just having a run of horrible luck… and I am so sorry. If these horses are not in range to have your vet do the prepurchase, does your vet review the clinical and X-rays via video?

#9

It is all such a crapshoot. I have bought horses with bad Xrays who continue to be sound, and horses with perfect vettings that were NQR from a young age. Not to mention the last 3 horses I bought were injured either on the trailer to me (not horse’s fault, trailer accident) or shortly after arrival goofing off in the paddock.

And most of us wouldn’t pass a vet check, either!

#10

From now on, with any horse I have vetted by an unknown vet, the videos and x-rays will come to my home vet and, if questionable, will go on to a specialist. ----- Did I do that with these 3 (all of whom where more than 1000 miles away, so I relied on a local vet). No, I did not. Why? because I 1. used a vet who was not the seller’s vet, but who came recommended, and 2. Because I was absolutely crazy in love with each horse and I was playing ostrich. I did not want them to fail the vetting. (I know that horses do not ‘pass’ or fail’, so I am using these words loosely).

The horse I walked away from was vetted by Rood and Riddle, and I had absolute faith in the vet I used (having lived in Lex. and used R&R as my vet). I also had a different criteria. That horse was meant to be an investment horse. So my question was not “will he make a nice horse for me?” But: “If I try to sell him in 3 years, what will the next vet say?” That question seems to require a much stricter analysis because the vet must look at the horse/x-rays, etc. through the eyes of another vet. The lovely jumping horse was 100% sound and might well have passed this vet if he was looking at the horse in front of him. But the vet saw a suspicious shadow that might have degenerated into a career ending condition. He told me that, and I walked away. The horse is now 5, 100% sound with great x-rays and is for resale with a 6 figure price tag… Ahhhh well.

#11

Libby and I have PM’d each other about our boys, and our experiences are sadly similar. So I want to reiterate the very early signs of DSLD for those who have not needed to learn on their own.

The are several lengthy threads on this topic. If someone is buying a young WB, be aware that, in my case, and in talking to others, it is scary how inbred dressage Hanoverians have gotten. But, at least it is easy to check because offspring are named with the first letter of the stallion’s name. While it is not an exhaustive :slight_smile: ‘study’ several anecdotal comments have mentioned the “W” line as a sire in the case of DSLD. I am NOT dissing the entire line. Nor am I saying to avoid the entire line. But, for everyone who wants to buy a young horse take special care of having the hind leg conformation checked out.

The earliest sign of trouble is probably a ‘dropped pastern’. Lameness is rarely seen in a young horse, because there has been little stress on the hind legs. But be aware that DSLD shows up on both legs (so, as Libby discovered, there is no easy lameness to see, since the horse will move evenly). But, this conformation anomaly creates extra stress on the anatomical deficiency and, in the several cases that I know of, hind suspensory issues have been the downfall of these horses. Sadly, we are all learning that with babies the suspensory would probably look normal on ultrasound, because it has not been stressed. So it can be a crap game, and all you can do is try to better your odds.

I AM NOT A VET, NOR AN EXPERT, BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION. I am just passing on what I have heard and experienced. But everyone knows that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. :slight_smile: MANY W line horses have reached the pinnacle of their discipline (or else there would not be such a tendency to breed to them). But some have the conformational defect of long, poorly supported pasterns, and/or pass that down.

People with other WB line horses have PM’d me with questions about DSLD, so it is not unique to any one line.

Hilltop Stables, in Maryland, is one of the places which has taken stallions out of service, rather than risk passing defects along. KUDOs to them

#12

Well, my neck horse passed a neuro exam on PPE and has passed subsequent neuro exams by specialists even after we found the arthritis. I will say, though, that I now Xray neck and back on everything. I discussed with my PPE vet on my horse about x-raying the neck and he said it probably wasn’t worth blowing my budget on that because he showed no signs that we needed to look there. FWIW, big horse with a normal, strong looking neck for his size and age (as compared to LH’s horses from the description).

Sure there are plenty of horses with neck changes out there I think that are doing fine. Known some that were fine for years until they weren’t, and Xrays showed stuff that’s clearly been there a long time. Some horses with minor changes on the Xrays act like they have a big problem. Some horses with major changes might do fine for a long time. It’s so hard to predict. Same as with humans when it comes to neck stuff. That said, I think it was pretty irresponsible for NC State to find neck issues in your horse and not raise a red flag when he was already showing clinical signs of narrowing in the neuro exam. I mean, what???

I’ve been shopping for horse #2 lately and had a few failed PPEs so far. All kinds of problems but big problems just the same on for now clinically sound horses. Just found out the latest prospect has had a career change from upper level dressage to h/j/eq due to neck issues that needed injections a year or two ago. Seems to be liking the new career so far but is doing lower level. Nope, nope, nope. Sigh.

@Mango20 can I please borrow some of your luck? :smiley:

#13

Does anyone have, or know of any good photos with examples of DSLD horses at perhaps different ages?

#14

I have some that might help. But my phone died and I am waiting for the new one to arrive, I will get back to you later. PS: I saw a picture of a horse jumping GP. On takeoff, his fetlock was On The Ground. Since I presumed the horse was sound to be jumping at the FEI level, I was amazed at just how much stress the suspensory can handle when all the other structures are doing their jobs.

PPS: I also assumed that the horse was very fit, so all hind leg ligaments and tendons were at their maximal strength. ---- I wonder just how much of a role that fitness plays when discussing suspensory problems? I doubt that any of our horses are incredibly fit, as a FEI jumper or dressage horse must be. Could a sizeable % of our (meaning the normal horse/rider) suspensory problems be avoided/lessened by bringing a horse with long pasterns into work at a snail’s pace? I certainly do not think I rush young horses’ but I still might be asking more of them than their conformation can cope with.

PPPS: Last fall Petey went back to work, so I rode Goober with him to be a friend out on the trails. In 6 weeks, we did 3 weeks of only walk and then added in a little bit of trot for 3 more weeks. Then the rains came. But, with 6 weeks under tack and going on the trails daily, he stayed sound, Would he have stayed sound if I had given him another 6 weeks before asking him to canter? In retrospect, I think he might have.

So many questions.

1 Like
#15

Hello all. Longtime lurker here (mostly due to password problems)

I bought a 4 year old 8 years ago. This was the most amazing horse ever. He won everything over fences and under saddle in the AA shows, won the zone and qualified for A/Os at Devon by seven years old with light campaigning. Had the usual PPE done when I bought him: x-rays, flexions, bloodwork etc. We noticed when he would spook at jumps he would shift sideways. He was also always just a little stiff but we attributed it to his long neck and body. I moved him to a new barn when he was seven and a trainer remarked he felt stiff and should be looked at by a vet. The vet came out, took x-rays and found arthritic changes in his neck. He recommended Tildren and steroid injections which we did. Shortly after at a horse show he felt funny.

When I came home and was hacking him he fell. Same vet came out to look at him and immediately said we should euthanize him. I was devastated. We had to wait eight days to get to the hospital for a body scan so the insurance policy would pay out if he needed to be euthanized. During those eight days he deteriorated so fast that he couldn’t lift his head and it was dangerous standing on the cross ties. Getting him on and off the trailer and driving to the hospital was terrifying. The body scan confirmed what we feared and that his discs in his neck were pinching his spinal cord. There was nothing that could be done and he could not even be kept pastor safe at this point.

After six months of heart wrenching pain I bought a new horse to try and fill the void. I would not recommend moving this quickly, but I was hurting so badly and rushed into replacing him. I bought a three-year-old from overseas that I had found on the web. The trainer liked what he saw and said we should look at him. I flew over to see the horse in person and to get a vetting done that I could supervise. My vet at home sent me with a long list of x-rays to be done and other tests. I had told him that I could not risk losing another one and that I wanted to do everything possible to limit the risks. The vetting took eight hours. I x-rayed everything including his neck and back. I also ultrasounded every suspensory that he had in all four legs. I am fortunate that I had a sizable insurance check on the first horse, this horse was inexpensive because I found him on my own and he was barely broke to sit on, and the vettings are so inexpensive in Germany. The whole vetting, having him gelded, and an overnight stay at the hospital cost less than $2000. You can barely get a basic PPE in my area for $2000.

I would say if you have the money to do everything you can in a PPE no matter the horse’s age, experience or how much you trust the owner. At least you’ll have a baseline for anything in the future and you have better peace of mind knowing that you looked at things. Of course this does not prevent them from hurting themselves once you buy them, but at least I feel you’re off to a good start. Just my two cents.

2 Likes
#16

Fitness of soft tissues is an ongoing thing. If you are not working to keep him fit, the fitness level is lowering. We do interval training for Combined Driving. Like Eventing, horse has to be fit for all three sections. Starting a young horse at our farm, getting an older horse back in condition after winter off, we figure 90 days of works. Not just a 3 month time span, horse is used to be able to count towards the 90 days. Only one work per day actually builds body, no speeding up the time. We do a LOT of walking to start, a mile at least, usually 2 miles, driving to the corner and back. Distance is gradually increased, usually every 5 days by a small amount. Horses are worked 3 to 5 times a week. After the first couple weeks of walking, starting trot work, we will alternate with ring work if the outside arena footing is usable.

We build on this in distance, length of arena work time, over the weeks. If horses are experienced, we have done some canter/gallop work for short distances. Young horses get to canter/gallop a little later in conditioning to insure they are physically fit to manage the stresses.

We time them on set distances, to evaluate speed, recovery from fast trot, collected (harder work) trot, canter and the Big Walk. Collected arena work is always a much shorter session than road work. We are building the horse, his new muscling, so short, excellent ring sessions are the goal, not drilling movements to wear them out. Being collected is plain hard work, so we keep it short. Do some minutes of collection, relax and do something else before asking for a few more minutes of collection. FEW is the thing, 4-5 minutes is enough collected time as we build the horse.

Building the body has to take a long time so parts all end up fit together. Muscles and soft tissue get fit at different rates, with bone taking much the longest. But if you only allow time for soft things to be fit, you risk tears and injuries so often complained about here on Coth. We track works, progress on a calendar, you can’t remember all those daily details over such a long time. You MUST do all the gaits, to build a whole horse.

I had one that could trot 10 miles, recover fast, but she had no real “wind” in competition. “Back then” a driving horse NEVER cantered, it was bad training. Going up and down hills, to compete she got really hot. So when we stopped trotting, her inner heat did not cool because she was not breathing hard anymore while standing still… She went into Thumps, we were cold hosing her, icing her to get the heat out! Vet later asked about her conditioning. Then he told us that without the galloping, she was not getting any wind building for later self cooling. He was right, adding canter/galloping made a world of difference in improving her recoveries in later competitions.

A horse body has to be exerted to build strength. You have to do it regularly or fitness of body parts diminishes quickly. How many actually do a hand gallop of their horse to improve his wind, give him some impact to build stronger bones? It uses other muscling, breathing patterns, than what horse used in his ringwork exercises. One of the benefits of trail riding is using all these other body parts, no bending all the time or soft footing to exhaust his soft tissues. Body stretches and flexes, not always in a frame or on the bit as he goes along forward.

Does anyone actually do a warmup or cool down anymore? Without those, you increase the chance of horse injury because he can have stiffness when you ask for real work immediately. I consider 20 minutes an adequate warm up, 5 minutes walk on loose rein in both direction equals 10 minutes. Then 5 minutes trot in both directions on a loose rein is the second 10 minutes. THEN you start asking horse for more, give to the bit, some drive from behind, flexing as asked. Cool down time is about the same with trotting, then walking as breathing slows, you get him relaxed to unsaddle. Not doing an adequate warm up and cool down is asking for leg problems. We walk the driving horses the first mile and a half out, then walk that mile and a half home, after getting our distances in. Have to say they get the Big Walk going on the way home! Distance speeds by!

3 Likes
#17

Goodhors, These forums provide the opportunity for writing and reading so much good information. And I put your post into that class.
I have spent my life in the hunter ring where we don’t want our horses to be really fit. The more fit they are, the harder it is to work them down and also to keep them as fat as they should be to ‘look like a hunter’. So my idea of “fitness” is very skewed.

In the spring of 2017, Goober had intermittent lameness issues and was in a stall/paddock. When he was sound again, I sent him for 1 month of treadmill and aquatred strengthening at an equine rehab center run by a vet. I saw him after 2 weeks and he was looking great and sound. But after 4 weeks he was very lame.

It turned out that, for the first 2 weeks he went on the dry treadmill at a medium walk in the morning, and the aquatread (at ever increasing water height) in the PM. That was when I saw him. For the next 2 weeks, they said he “did not need” the dry treadmill, so he was only put on the aqua treadmill, but for 2x the time.

That did him in. And started the downward spiral from which he has never recovered in 18 months.

I now have an appreciation for slow but steady warm ups. But, it is too little, too late. :frowning:

When I got him home, I thought of contacting the vet at the rehab center, but I didn’t since I could not prove anything. :frowning: The hole in his suspensory is large. His pastern has dropped and he has no future. Vets have opined that he has DSLD so his lameness would have been the result anyway. But I have always wondered about that experience.

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $29.99 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse