Who saddled California Chrome? No excuse… http://www.thoroughbredchampions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4420&start=490
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He probably gets more than 10% plus he will get a share or two. Art’s son Alan saddled him.
A share. Of the horse? Breeding share? I’m not familiar enough with the terms of jockey remuneration. I thought 10% of the purse was the common agreement. Please educate me.:yes:
Whatever the agreement, I think he deserves a bonus for his skill in riding through an error that could easily have had tragic consequences for the jockeys and horses in that race…
What a game and tolerant horse.
I haven’t done the research, but would love to hear the trainer’s explanation.
What do you think Laurierace?
The big riders generally get more than 10% but the actual percentage differs depending upon what the two parties agree upon. Yes, I meant breeding shares which depending upon how his second career goes could be extremely lucrative or pretty much nothing.
I don’t know if I would call it an error but it is something that would absolutely horrify me had I been the one to put the saddle on. They used a girth channel which is helpful in preventing slip so that base was covered.
“Who saddled California Chrome? No excuse”
I think you’re being a little bit too harsh with this statement. There are plenty of reasons why it happens from time to time. Happens far more than most people realize. This just happens to be a high profile horse in a high profile race.
“Deserves More Than His 10%”
Lets not be silly here. He was paid $600,000. SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS to “work” for a tad over 2 MINUTES. The majority of people working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week don’t make that kind of money in 10 years.
Only 29 Jockey out of 1,584 listed on Equibase for 2015 banked more than $600,000 from their 10% of prize money.
Only 13 trainers out of 5,815 banked more than $600,000 from their 10%
That’s for the WHOLE YEAR not just one 2 minute race.
Chrome has won $12,532,650 so far. Victor picked up the mount on CC 7 start and never looked back. He has earned more than $1,200,000 from this horse alone. In a little over 2 years he’s been riding him. That’s a lot more than most people make in a lifetime. Especially those who work their butts off 7 days week at the race track. That includes trainers and jockeys.
As an owner, breeder and everything else that comes with trying to make a living. The ones that take ALL of the risks I think top jocks and trainers are paid way more then they are really worth in the end. They take little to no financial risks.
IMO trainers and jockeys shouldn’t be paid 10%, which totals 20% from horses that win ridiculously inflated prize money. There should be a “declining scale” of some sort.
These service providers get paid out of the GROSS not the NET of what the vast majority of owners have to shell out. People see a horse win a $100,000 race and they think geez that owner made out. Well, the owner/horse receives 60%, $60,000 the owner than has to pay out another 20%, so the owner nets $48,000 from that $100,000. To run in a $100,000 may require paying an entry fee of $5,000± also. So the owner gets less than 50%.
Most owners will have paid over $30-$40,000 in training expenses before a horse ever gets in the gate for its first start. That does not include the purchase price. Owner-breeders are shelling out expense money for over 3-4 years before a horse gets in the gate. If it EVER does.
The majority horses are lucky to win 1 or 2 races lifetime.
We ALL are chaseing the Pot of Gold at the end of the Rainbow. But very, very,very few find it. This game, business has been the ruin of many, many fine people. The general public only sees the smiling faces in the winners circle. They never see the 1000s of faces of the heart broken.
I know what they look like. Sometimes all I have to do is look in the mirror.
Please don’t take my comments personally. Just pointing out the big picture.
Thanks for the information Laurierace.
Gumtree, no problem, you have your opinion, nothing wrong with that. You certainly have expertise that I do not.
I see this particular race (considering the fact that there seems not to have been a failure of equipment, but inadequate care in saddling) to be a case of the jockey saving the owner a good deal of money and possibly his horse, by riding it out AND winning.
Espinoza had his and other jockeys (and horses) safety put at at considerable risk. Worth a little extra I think, but that’s just my opinion.
I don’t know any Jockeys that will get more than 10%. But that’s not so say it isn’t done. But I would be it is very rare. Especially when riding a nice horse for big prize money. Some will be guaranteed a minimum pay check far above the base “mount fee”. Appearance money you could call it.
Some jocks but no all may be given a Breeding Right. The same as the trainer. But that almost always goes to a jock that has ridden the horse in the majority if not all of the horse’s races. I’ve been involved in the syndication of a couple medium profile horses/stallions. I have also reviewed/read the syndicate agreements of a number of high profile stallions. None of them included breeding rights for the jockey.
A Breeding Right is not the same as owning a Share, (the “legal” term is Fractional Interest). A Breeding right may or may not be fully transferable meaning the owner/grantee can not sell it. They get the right to breed 1 mare per breeding season. That “season” can be and is usually sold each year. But the sale of which is restricted and usually dictated how by Syndicate Manager. Which in most cases is the Standing Farm.
Breeding Rights are for the most part a “Gift” they are not given by “right”.
Storm Cat won a little over $570,000. Of which the trainer Jonathan Sheppard received $57,000. But he was given a Lifetime Breeding Right. Storm Cat went to stud starting at $25,000. At his peak he stood for $500,000. I don’t think Jonathan ever used it, bred a mare on it. He sold it every year. Easy math to figure out how much money he made with it over the years.
Tapit won around $560,000. $56.000 to the trainer Michael Dickinson. He was given a Life Time Fully Transferable Breeding Right. Which he sold a few years ago for over $1,000,000.
Horatio Luro the trainer of Northern Dancer had a Life Time Breeding Right and sold his season every year. For a number of years at $1,000,000 per year. He was a friend and he lived very well off of ND long after his last race.
I don’t know any Jockeys that will get more than 10%. But that’s not so say it isn’t done. But I would be it is very rare. Especially when riding a nice horse for big prize money. Some will be guaranteed a minimum pay check far above the base “mount fee”. Appearance money you could call it.
Some jocks but no all may be given a Breeding Right. The same as the trainer. But that almost always goes to a jock that has ridden the horse in the majority if not all of the horse’s races. I’ve been involved in the syndication of a couple medium profile horses/stallions. I have also reviewed/read the syndicate agreements of a number of high profile stallions. None of them included breeding rights for the jockey.
A Breeding Right is not the same as owning a Share, (the “legal” term is Fractional Interest). A Breeding right may or may not be fully transferable meaning the owner/grantee can not sell it. They get the right to breed 1 mare per breeding season. That “season” can be and is usually sold each year. But the sale of which is restricted and usually dictated how by Syndicate Manager. Which in most cases is the Standing Farm.
Breeding Rights are for the most part a “Gift” they are not given by “right”.
Storm Cat won a little over $570,000. Of which the trainer Jonathan Sheppard received $57,000. But he was given a Lifetime Breeding Right. Storm Cat went to stud starting at $25,000. At his peak he stood for $500,000. I don’t think Jonathan ever used it, bred a mare on it. He sold it every year. Easy math to figure out how much money he made with it over the years.
Tapit won around $560,000. $56.000 to the trainer Michael Dickinson. He was given a Life Time Fully Transferable Breeding Right. Which he sold a few years ago for over $1,000,000.
Horatio Luro the trainer of Northern Dancer had a Life Time Breeding Right and sold his season every year. For a number of years at $1,000,000 per year. He was a friend and he lived very well off of ND long after his last race.
Edgar Prado’s brother was stabled in the same barn with me at Pimlico for years during Edgar’s big time. He told me Edgar didn’t get on a plane without at least a 15% guarantee and said the same can be said for most big riders.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8595812]
“Who saddled California Chrome? No excuse”
I think you’re being a little bit too harsh with this statement. There are plenty of reasons why it happens from time to time. Happens far more than most people realize. This just happens to be a high profile horse in a high profile race.
“Deserves More Than His 10%”
Lets not be silly here. He was paid $600,000. SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS to “work” for a tad over 2 MINUTES. The majority of people working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week don’t make that kind of money in 10 years.
Only 29 Jockey out of 1,584 listed on Equibase for 2015 banked more than $600,000 from their 10% of prize money.
Only 13 trainers out of 5,815 banked more than $600,000 from their 10%
That’s for the WHOLE YEAR not just one 2 minute race.
Chrome has won $12,532,650 so far. Victor picked up the mount on CC 7 start and never looked back. He has earned more than $1,200,000 from this horse alone. In a little over 2 years he’s been riding him. That’s a lot more than most people make in a lifetime. Especially those who work their butts off 7 days week at the race track. That includes trainers and jockeys.
As an owner, breeder and everything else that comes with trying to make a living. The ones that take ALL of the risks I think top jocks and trainers are paid way more then they are really worth in the end. They take little to no financial risks.
IMO trainers and jockeys shouldn’t be paid 10%, which totals 20% from horses that win ridiculously inflated prize money. There should be a “declining scale” of some sort.
These service providers get paid out of the GROSS not the NET of what the vast majority of owners have to shell out. People see a horse win a $100,000 race and they think geez that owner made out. Well, the owner/horse receives 60%, $60,000 the owner than has to pay out another 20%, so the owner nets $48,000 from that $100,000. To run in a $100,000 may require paying an entry fee of $5,000± also. So the owner gets less than 50%.
Most owners will have paid over $30-$40,000 in training expenses before a horse ever gets in the gate for its first start. That does not include the purchase price. Owner-breeders are shelling out expense money for over 3-4 years before a horse gets in the gate. If it EVER does.
The majority horses are lucky to win 1 or 2 races lifetime.
We ALL are chaseing the Pot of Gold at the end of the Rainbow. But very, very,very few find it. This game, business has been the ruin of many, many fine people. The general public only sees the smiling faces in the winners circle. They never see the 1000s of faces of the heart broken.
I know what they look like. Sometimes all I have to do is look in the mirror.
Please don’t take my comments personally. Just pointing out the big picture.[/QUOTE]
Nothing personal here, either. But to reduce Espinoza’s payday to ‘two minutes’ of work leaves out the long years of apprenticeship, the times when you get no payday, and, of course, the personal risk.
It was Richard Migliore, I believe, who said, ‘What other job has an ambulance following you around?’
[QUOTE=Laurierace;8596495]
Edgar Prado’s brother was stabled in the same barn with me at Pimlico for years during Edgar’s big time. He told me Edgar didn’t get on a plane without at least a 15% guarantee and said the same can be said for most big riders.[/QUOTE]
Who pays for the plane ticket when the jock is basically going for one or maybe 2 horses and the rest are just availability rides, the jock or the owners? If you’re Edgar or Victor, do you fly first-class or economy? 
Not being a fan of VE I wouldn’t know much about his career. But in that race situation there wouldn’t have been a jockey out there that wasn’t looking out for himself, his horse, and the rest of the field. At that level they are all talented and professional. Extra money for doing his job? Nah. He is getting a fabulous wage to do what he just did. No tip required
Interesting. Is the reason for your dislike,or non-fandom, of V.E. personal or professional?
I’ve not met him or any other famous jockey, however I have seen a few on television (and have read their comments) who really come off as jerks. V.E. wasn’t one of them. I do understand that some people are on their best behavior when in front of the camera…
I am also a bit wary of Victor. Keep wanting to like him. And he is fine usually. And certainly did a great job Saturday.
But I also think that most top caliber jockeys would have been able to maintain the position as well. The horse was pretty terrific.
What I am not crazy about, is that when asked about his wins, the horse(s), the past couple of years, Victor tends to talk a lot more about himself, his goals, etc. - giving credit to the horse(s), but not to the extent most jockeys do - who will give almost all the credit to the horse and trainer, and maintain some humility.
It’s great he gave much to charity, but needs to tweak his interview skills. He has been very blessed in recent years.
Were some remarks made before the race alluding to the heat. Frosted the only one not dripping. Wonder if that, and an extended delay between paddock and gate were factors in the girth slipping.
[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;8596796]
Who pays for the plane ticket when the jock is basically going for one or maybe 2 horses and the rest are just availability rides, the jock or the owners? If you’re Edgar or Victor, do you fly first-class or economy? :)[/QUOTE]
From the picture I saw that Victor posted on facebook, it looked like first class.
[QUOTE=jvanrens;8597611]
From the picture I saw that Victor posted on facebook, it looked like first class.[/QUOTE]
The Sheik (?) Dubai (?) pays for all horses, owners and, I think, trainers to get to Dubai. I would think that the jockeys also receive free tickets.
Wow. That’s some serious saddle slippage!
[QUOTE=skydy;8596969]
Interesting. Is the reason for your dislike,or non-fandom, of V.E. personal or professional?
I’ve not met him or any other famous jockey, however I have seen a few on television (and have read their comments) who really come off as jerks. V.E. wasn’t one of them. I do understand that some people are on their best behavior when in front of the camera…[/QUOTE]
I never said I dislike him. I’m not a fan as in I don’t follow his races like I do Johnny V or Calvin B. And unless a jockey is a chronic jackwagon, I don’t pay much attention to what they say right after a race. VE simply isn’t on my radar of jockeys to watch.
